Water changes!

Seems to be a lot of interest in water changes - a how much, how often etc. I change 30% of the water once a week because I dont have time. I would like to change it twice, but I've gotta eat! Now heres the result from a little experiment we did back at the aquaculture center at Uni of Tas in 1992. We we looking at differing growth rates compared to water quality. The fish we used were discus and dwarf gouramis. The filtration in one group of tanks was a sponge filter, another group had a trickle system, one had an 'all singing and dancing system' consisting of trickle, nitratereductor,sulphur,carbonate, calcium reactors and another which I cant remember. The last system was getting a 50% water change each day. The results were interesting. The fish with the highest growth rates were from the tanks with the all-singing -and-dancing filters, next was the water change tank, followed by the sponge then trickle (I think). The lecturers do this experiment to show the importance of filtration. Now we wondered why this could be so. Upon examination of the fish (histo-toxicological), it was found that the fish with the highest growth rates given the same food had less blood cortisol levels. When a fish gets stressed, it produces cortisol which lowers the immune system, reduces resistance to infections/pathogens and ultimately inhibits successful spawning in some cases. The reason behind the higher stress levels in the water changed tanks WAS the water changing (physically disturbing them) or buildups of toxic metabolites (remember that biological filtration only removes nitrogen bases metabolites and converts it to nitrate). Also these fish were not used to being disturbed with water changes like mine are, but still - food for thought. Wild stuff, like Heckels wont tolerate any disturbances during spawing season, or they just wont breed!

So the results are interesting. I just thought I'de share this with you. Also, so only way I've bred Heckels out of the pond was by using a stable system with all the bell and wistles in the filtration end. Large water volume (as we fish disease guys say - 'dilution is the solution to polution!')

Someone answered one of the threads in this forum with ' there are too many vaiables with water changes' ie whos right or wrong about frequency of the changes. Dead right - a large tank with low biostock density needs less changes. More intensive systems EG fry growout are gonna need more changes. It really comes down to stocking density. If I walk into my fish shed and see some discus looking a bit dark or not eating with enough vigour or flighty, then I give them a water change. As most of you will know, each of your discus have their own personalitys and traits. I know each of my 20 or so adult brooders by name and personality and I know when somethings not right. Thats when I do my changes.

If anyone wants to try out some of these hi tech filtration systems, have a look at them on Proteus' APW site. They can be expensive but are well worth it (and yes - you'll still have to do water changes, but not as often) Food for thought

Squid

Good advice Squid theres no right or wrong way and i agree with knowing a fishes personality. Some of mine when breeding will allow me to do water changes, others just by their movements and temperment wont allow it. I do a 50% water change for my tanks per week only due to the fact it "works for me" and if i had the time would do more. The fish are happy and im happy, but some other people may have to do more each week dependign on local water conditions, stocking levels etc, too many individual variables for each individual case.

What's the link?

Thanks

i do 10% daily on my discus tanks and 40% every 3-4 days on my cichlid tank.....ok ok its sounds like a lot of water changes but heres whats in the tank...
12-14blue dolphins 12-18cm
18 E'yellows 4-12cm
5cuckoos 10-12cm+
3clown laoches 7-8cm
1 pictus 12cm
12-13BN 4-8cm
6Eblues 4-6cm
1 3spot 4cm
and the tank is only a 4x15x18 :oops: they will be going into a 8x2x2 ONCE the insurince coupony(SPELLING) hurrys up with our floors

very informative squid

This would make a good sticky I think anybody else agree?

Very informative Squid!

Indeed it is Sammi, and deserves to be a sticky.

Thanks Squid. We love information like this.

Yep it was interesting, the only problem I have now is I dont think I'm changing my water enough.......so I think I may just have to give up sleeping at night now as well as maintain 50 or so tanks. :roll:

Thanks for the information Tony and an excellent sticky!

I like the idea of the "flow through" tank system.

It creates an environment where filtration is not needed as there is constantly fresh water within the tank and there is none of the water change shock associated with doing water changes greater than %20.

I have tried and tested this "flow through" tank method and found I achieved healthier fish and a %10+ better growth than conventional methods.

Of course having this style tank set up is costly and generally not practical for
the domestic fish keeper and or breeder.

Dead right Ben - very expensive way to go about it, but when you consider what a batch of F1 Tefe Greens will sell for!! Another problem is it takes up a fair bit of room. Thanks for all the comments too guys!

Squid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Squid

If anyone wants to try out some of these hi tech filtration systems, have a look at them on Proteus' APW site. They can be expensive but are well worth it (and yes - you'll still have to do water changes, but not as often) Food for thought

Squid

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Don't leave them hanging give them the link! :lol:

Sorry guys - APW is a sponsor I think, and you can see Proteus' adds in the classifieds. Now I'm not a computer Guru when it comes to links and stuff. hope this works

www.aquariumproductswholesale.com

Go to the filtration section under specialty stuff. If the link fails then go to the first thread in the Classifieds section and you'll see APW

See ya

Squid

thanks squid very informing.

i posetd a water change q?
in just now can,you help me out man?

thanks again

Everybody - got to the photo album forum and have a look at ginko's collection. Especially take note of his filtration system and also the fact that his fish hate water changes!!! They just dont like getting disturbed, especially wild fishes!! He certainly has some excellent specimens there

Squid

i had a new set-up in my system that requires very little effort and time for water change which i am doing it everyday.
city water is connected through actived carbon filter goes direct into my aquarium bio-filter with few more packs of activited carbon to ensure that all chlorine are removed.
the whole in-let city water is control by float valve that will stop when water level reach certain height. ( flash toilet float valve can be converted )
water out-let is by gravity through a pipe control by a stop valve so it's flow rate can be contol.
i turn on the out-let and do my things and stop the out flow after 1 or 2 hours depending on it's flow rate normally quite slow.
dont have to care about water re-fill as it is automatic.
try this now you will be happy and your fish will be happy too :-)

Thanks for that mate :) that answered a few of my many questions ;)

hi ray, i like your idea, might use it when i get my bigger tank this year, i have 2 questions:

1. I know your only adding the water very slowly but doesnt it still need heating before it goes into the filter (coz wouldn't the cold water kill the bacteria in the sponges if it's goin straight into the filter)?

2. Slightly stupid question, but how do you get the water out of the tank through the lil tube, do you syphon or have you cut a hole in the bottom and stuck a tube and valve?

got my first discus yesterday he's only a baby as my tank is quite small but well established, he seems happy he's not very wild I don't think coz he's hardly got any vertical bar markings, am i right in thinking this?

thanks in advance for any comments, nice forum.

I have heard that carbon in a discus tank will cause disease of some sort. Is there any truth to this?

I'v been doing daily 5-10% water changes depending on how busy I am and on the weekends I do up to 30%. All my fish are healthy and seem happy enough. Bright colours and all that. Definitely recommend regular water changes.

I feed my fish 10 times and do 50% water change everyday.

Nice fish jon, can I ask where you found them ?

Steve

I'm from HongKong. One of my fd goes to malaysia several times every year to visit the discus farms there. The albino leopard is selling at HKD$3000 to $4000 each in HK and I bought it $1200 from him.

Attachment 21511
THE BEST WAY FOR DISCUS (WATER CHANGE )

One of the most important factors in discus breeding is the frequent replacement of water in the disc tank .... The most important reason that we change part of the water in the disc tanks can be divided into the following categories ... We try to Let's cover each of these topics in the next posts:
1- Reducing the concentration of nitrate materials such as ammonia - nitrite and nitrate

As you know, the first toxic substance formed in freshwater tanks is ammonia, which later becomes nitrite. This is extremely toxic to the aquarium, and this is the most important cause of death and disease in new tanks until the nitrogen cycle in the tank has passed. Therefore, in the beginning, these materials should have a lower concentration in the tank. The best way is to change some of the aquarium water from the first days. This method is the safest factor for health and passing the sensitive steps of nitrogen cycle in your tank.

2- Contributing to the growth of discus by providing lost water:
With the help of some factors, the level of nitrate in water can also be controlled. The use of some plants in freshwater refuges, the use of ATS, etc., but whatever we do, the disc needs fresh water. A study of the life of the discus in the Amazon shows that the discus habitat is running water. That is, water is constantly being refreshed. Therefore, the need to change the water periodically is a basic need for disk. The addition of magnesium, phosphate, iron, calcium, and other minerals absorbed by the disc's body is done by fresh water,

3- Elimination of hormones that oppose the growth of feremon discs

At 20 years old I bought 2 wild Blue Heckel Discus in Tucson AZ. At that time Discus were said to unkeepable in an aquarium. Is was back on 1982. I put them in a 75 gallon tank with all my other fish, with just tap water. They lived for years until I moved Back home to MN. I have bread Discus. I have a 75 gallon with 5 assorted hybrid Discus. But the Discus I love the most is the Red Spotted Tefe Green. So I ordered 4 Red Spotted Greens from Rain Forest farms and tom has been delaying delivery for over three weeks. Please let me know if you dealt with this company? Please let me know.

However long you are reliable with how frequently and the % of the water you change there is no such thing as exaggerating water changes. The fish will see the value in new water. They will become acclimated to anything routine you do. Simply be steady similar to I said before. For example, don't do a 75% WC multi week and afterward conclude you just need to do a 15% change the following week. Water science won't begin to vacillate and that is ever great for fish.

Changing water for discus is very important for their health and growth. The frequency and percentage of water changes depend on several factors, such as the size and age of the discus, the tank size and filtration, the water quality and parameters, and the feeding regime. However, a general guideline is to change at least 20-25% of the water once a week for adult discus, and 30-50% of the water daily for juvenile discus. You should always use dechlorinated water that matches the temperature and pH of your tank water. You should also monitor your discus’ behavior and appearance after water changes to see if they need more or less frequent changes.