different grades of Marlboro Red/Discus ?

[samir]

I read an article that says there are three grades of marlboro red
Grade A - From Golden Discus and do not develop black as they grow older.
Grade B - From Tangerine that develop a little black
Grade C - From Pigeon Blood which are guaranteed to develop peppering as they get older. The fry have a black band on their tail.

:? I used to think all Marlboro were pigeon blood. Does anyone have a Marlboro that isn't ? Are all the marlboro we get Grade C ? My fry have a band on their tail.

I was told at an LFS in Sydney that their adult Leopard Snake aka Eruption/Explosion/Anaconda (if I wanted an Anaconda I'd just apply for a reptile permit) whatever cr@p they call them were premium quality, hand picked from breeders in Malaysia. (even A was too low for that quality, especially for something that can mimic a volcano). I think they were about 250 or 280 and looked about 5". To be selling Grade A adult LSS at that price they would probably have to register themselves as a charity. Strange how "show specimens" only cost a couple of hundred here whereas in Singapore they can cost in the thousands.

My point being there's too much misinformation / bullsh1t going around.

[G-1000]

Samir,

I think as you would know yourself, that with discus being such a potentially expensive hobby people are bound to come up with misleading names for their discus. It seems to all be part of marketing.

The major sponsor who was previously on this forum for example, sold me an "RGD" which I promise everyone was absolutely not an RGD - just a very clean marlboro. In this case, it was a grade A discus that Mr Yeng correctly refers to in that article.

I think this hobby needs to be geared towards the hobbyist - this means getting products from trusted local breeders so that you know exactly what you are buying.

After forking out a lot of dosh for my RGD - from that previous sponsor only to find it was a marlboro which was being color fed when i got it, is really upsetting, but it seems to be the way that SOME of these companies do business. I am subsequently not going to return to that particular store ever again myself and I would also suggest you do the same mate.

All in all, finding a trusted source of discus is too hard atm. So I totally agree with the bullshizzit in the hobby. It really frustrates me too.

G

[mistakes r crucial]

Advertised for the whole world to see! I state my case.

"Red Golden Diamond Pair (2pair, 3spare male) 5" - $560/pr or ($280 spare males)"

And I received......................... (nice fish but simply not what I was sold)

[G-1000]

Are we talking about the same ex-sponsor here MAC ?

Sounds like it

G

[Merrilyn]

Sadly, I'm a member of the same club. I bought some very nice fish, but just not what they were advertised as.

MAC I'm sorry to say, that I don't think your Gold Diamond is a gold anything, much less a gold diamond. It appears to be a Pearl Pigeon.

A gold diamond is an allover gold colour, like a blue diamond, but in the yellow colouring, and has no pigeon blood in the genes. A very hard to find fish.

And yes samir, I believe we are all talking about the same ex-sponsor.

[ivo]

strangly enough, i went to a store in sydney and i saw a fish looks just like mistake r cruicals picture and she insisted that it is a RGD male. i challenged her that there is absolutely no red in the fish but she said all RGD male has no red in it..i didn't buy that.

[mcloughlin2]

Not really on topic, but i do know of the ex sponser your talking about G.

When i first ot into discus, i bought a few discus that were stunted etc etc.

I saw a FS in the classifieds a few weeks later with gorgeous fish, at very good prices, so naturally i went that weekend to the ex sponser and bought 2 red turks and a red malboro.

A few days later my tank came down with a almost incurable disease. The only difference to the tank was the new fish.

I contacted the ex sponser and they gave me advice but it didnt help. The only survivors was a red turk and the malboro. Over the next few months the malboro which didnt have a dot of peppering on it at purchase, gradually got some. He also developed white facial marking til he resembled a checker board discus.

He was sold as a great quality discus which after the colour feeding stopped resembled a average discus.

Heres a picture after he survived the disease.

(Notice the uneven colour on the body near the tail)

[Merrilyn]

I'd like to thank everyone for keeping names out of this thread.

I understand your frustration, and you are more than welcome to vent your feelings, so long as the particular store is not named.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[G-1000]

I will add some pictures to provide evidence for my point of view.

Example one is below:

1) A supposedly male RGD given to me by the party in question, presumably fed on colour enhancers (most likely carophyll pink).

At this stage it looks like an RGD is supposed to - red fish with white face and clear fins.

[G-1000]

2) And here we have the same fish about 6 months later, although being fed a diet including colour bits, the fish has darkened considerably and you can even see the eye has changed colour too (indicating the colour feeding). This fish is now debatable at best as to whether it is an RGD.

[G-1000]

Now as for Sam mentioning illness/disease.

This has also occurred in my dealings with the party.

Attached are two pics of a blue diamond which was sold to me (these are taken from the day I bought it). I picked up the fish in a foggy double-bagged plastic bag thingy. So I couldnt see it.

Needless to say - this is not a healthy fish. Lucky for the little guy I have since fixed him up perfectly.

G

So just be careful people.

[Nathan]

yeah i had the same issues as you guys with the shop, i bought a breeding pair, advertised as fire rubies (not knowing they wearnt) i bought them turned out they were in fact mosaics.

then on top of that 2 weeks later when i recieved them they were diseased an lost over $600 in one go!

extremely dissapointing and upsetting

[samir]

2) And here we have the same fish about 6 months later,
What if a friend gave you that fish to look after for 6 months while they were overseas :shock: you'd have a lot of explaining to do.

I think we're all talking about the same source.

[G-1000]

Yes we are all talking about the same source here.

I will soon have a 100% answer on the RGD question. It will be bred to the albino I have and I expect to see peppered fry to confirm my suspicions.

G

[Merrilyn]

Here are some true RGD males and females. These photos were taken at the creator's breeding farm and supplied to this forum by a Malaysian member, forrest.

To my dismay, I have learned that true RGD have a halo of white in the dorsal and anal fin, edged in red. There is NO BLACK anywhere in the fins. Dorsal, anal, caudal and pectoral fins are either clear or have the red edging.

[samir]

:shock: i seem to have opened a can of worms here.
I did send a picture of a "RGD" to a couple of people in Singapore saying I wanted that, and they both were pretty sure it wasn't a RGD.

[Merrilyn]

No problems samir. The worms were always there.

They just hadn't surfaced yet.

It's all good.

[mcloughlin2]

I'm curious to see what exactly your pair died from Nathan?

Ladyred may be able to remember the thread i started last year when the first symptoms appeared and fish started to die. She kindly gave me her mobile number if i wanted to call her to discuss what it may be!

My fish started off with a small white dot in the centre of the eye, which later on spreads forming a white "Crust" over the eye which also spreads onto the body.

I tried metro, broadspectrum, epsom salts but none really worked. I ended up taking the final two to LFS and they treated them with a antibiotic.

Wished a had of snapped some pictures but i didn't know how to post pictures back then! :roll:

I thought me and a fella who bought the brother to my old malboro were the only 2 to have had a bad dealing with them! I didnt post it on the site just because i knew it would cause problems.

"Newbie blames established fishshop for killing his fish"

[Nathan]

im not 100% sure the first symptons started off as flukes then turned to HITH an i just wasnt able to control it an they carked it, not saying its the shop i bought it from fault, but it is definitely a big possibility

[samir]

I wish people would not claim that they had the best quality available when it couldn't be further from the truth. I think I need to stop buying more Discus and buy some Discus books :D

[mistakes r crucial]

Well, that has made the decision for me. I have learned alot over the last 3 years and have found that I can breed and grow out Discus but I don't profess to be a genetics or strain guru and have put my trust in a company that, until recently, has appeared to be worthy of that trust and an entity that would/should be pointing us all in the right direction with the amount of business they were receiving from this forum.

It would appear that this is not so and with so many grievances it would also appear that this may well be something that has happened on a regular basis and without any conscience whatsoever. Who the helll do you think you are?

You know who you are and I sincerely hope you are reading this because if LR is right this is the last straw. I am coming after you!

How dare you do this to an intelligent and loyal audience. Best of luck, with the evidence I have I think you're going to need it. I sincerely hope you don't laugh it off, first thing tomorrow morning the ball starts rolling, you've picked on the wrong person.
MAC

[Proteus]

To stay on the topic, all of my fish from the same retailer have died, mostly of unusual causes (which leads me to believe, hormones, colour enhancers and other products have been used).

All the other locally bred Discus, or Discus from other retailers are alive and well.

[mistakes r crucial]

None of my fish have died from these people and I havent noticed any colour enhancement either but I have not received what was advertised, simple as that. I was also told a pack of lies prior to making the purchase which pisses me off. They aint getting away with it, period! I'll spend the money, I hope they can!
MAC

[G-1000]

I couldn't agree more MAC,

I reckon go for it - somebody needs to show them how to treat their customer base.

I am happy for you to use my pictures as a case study.

I am also beginning to think that my albino's swelling/bulge may be due to this particular operator's sales tactics.

G

[mistakes r crucial]

Believe me G, I hope they are listening, the Supreme Court is something I am at home with.
MAC

[mcloughlin2]

MAC, just so you are aware. My Malboro looked the dead set image of yours at the time of purchase.

He gradually developed the peppering under his chin and eventually started loosing his orange colour.

He was a $200 fish @ 4-5" and was supposedly free of peppering. :roll:

Sam :evil:

[Merrilyn]

I can undertand that emotions are running high, but please don't let this turn into a witch hunt.

Let's just stick to facts.

[mistakes r crucial]

I am saying no more in public about these matters as the situation has now been handed to my company lawyers.
MAC