Going belly up as I watch!!!!

[k9outfit]

Help! Just started my routine water changes on my Discus tanks, got 1/2 way done on the 1st tank, moved the potted plant back onto the other side, and the smallest Discus in the tank was lying down. He went over to the other side, lay down in a corner, and there it lays! :shock: No dark colour, no clamped fins, no sign of any problem, ate like usual this morning....

The tank is 36"X18"X18" (50 gallons) with a sponge filter, 1 potted Amazon sword, bare bottom, 5 med-large San Merahs (had them since March) temp. 88 F. pH 7.0. 50% w/c twice weekly with heated, treated, aged water. None of the other Discus in the other 5 tanks - same set-up, same # of fish, same maitenence schedule are experincing any distress. Oh - and I haven't added any water yet, therefore can't be a new water issue.

Hope someone has some idea of what's happenning! :cry:
Thanks!

edited to update:

Have completed water change; added an airstone, 1 tsp salt/40 l of water and 5 ml of Prime.

Fish is still completely flat on the bottom, turning darker, and breathing slightly elevated.

[k9outfit]

So what the Heck was that all about???? :shock:

I ended up doing a second emergency 50% water change, added 5 tsp of Epsom salts (had to do something!!!!) and my fish started to become a bit less "DOA" looking; and now a number of hours later, he's vertical! :blob . Dark as can be, heavily barred though not black, and upright! I have the lights off on the tank, hoping that might help reduce his stress level a bit? Scared the blazes out of me!

Any ideas? Water paramaters after the 1st w/c were Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate between 5-10, pH 7.1, Oxygen 5mg/l

[sammigold]

could he have just been freaking out.? I have a silver dollar (have had him/her for about 7 years) and still sometimes when you do a water change it acts like it is dead... it will actually go in the corner of the tank and flip upside down and lay there until you have finished changing the water... It plays dead...it is a defence mechanism apparently that they use when they fear their safety. Maybe your little discus was doing the same...

[k9outfit]

Thanks for the suggestion, but don't think that's what's happening. He still looks very green around the edges even though he's back to being vertical; he really looks wrung out. :( I've had these guys since Feb or March, went from 3/week w/c to 2/week about 2 months ago. Nothing like this has ever happened. Also, it's after the 2nd w/c that he started showing a hint of interest in life again, and took another 2 hours or so before he actually picked himself up off the floor.

Could it be a bullying issue? Would that have levelled him that suddenly and that completely? I've noticed the large ones taking runs at each other, but I haven't noticed them really bothering with the 2 smaller guys; he is the smallest one....

I'm fairly positive that i saw him swimming around this morning, but I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I'm mistaken? Though can't believe I'd have missed a fish lying flat on the bottom...

[Merrilyn]

Well I'm glad to hear he's back up on his 'feet' so to speak, but I really don't think we're out of the woods just yet.

There is always a reason for a fish laying flat on the bottom. Stress is a possiblity, so is bacterial or viral infection. It's so hard to tell with fish. We can only make an educated guess going by the symptoms.

Your water parameters are perfect, so I doubt that it is anything to do with your water. Besides, other fish would be showing symptoms too, if there was a problem.

Could be stress, although I think you said that he has never done this before, so that makes it less likely.

I'm more inclined to think it may be a bacterial infection that is causing the symptoms.

Is he eating at all. Have you actually seen him eat? And how is he interracting with the other fish now? Is he back to normal, or is he still away from the rest of the group.

I think it's going to be worth while watching him for a few days. If he gradually improves, well and good. If not, then we need to think about isolating him in a hospital tank and treating with antibiotics.

[k9outfit]

Not sure what gives! :? All the fish, including the sick one, ate everything I fed them (bloodworms & frozen bbs), though none with their usual voracious appetites. The sick one is swimming around with the pack, though when at rest tends to stay by himself either facing the back corner or close to the back. He doesn't look quite as green around the gills as he did earlier, but he's definitely not "right" either.

Should I possibly try Maracyn 1&2 on them; broad spectrum antibiotics? There is 1 fish that seems to be a bit of a bully; should I barricade him in behind some egg crate or maybe set up another tank and seperate the 2 smallest ones to give them a chance to try and catch up? Could a bullying situation cause a fish to suddenly just give up and want to die like this one seems to have done???? Any suggestion or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

As luck would have it, I'm heading to Europe on the 18th for 2 weeks, so if I want to try something, it's got to be right away. I'd really hate to see him have another bout - of whatever it is - when I'm not here to try to save him. Wonderful; never go anywhere and when I finally do, something like this crops up! :roll:

Thanks for the help (I love this forum!)! Hopefully we can figure this out so I won't be coming back to 1 less fish. :(

[taksan]

Thats just BIZZARE ...... :shock:

[Merrilyn]

K9 I think I try removing the bully from the tank, and keep him in isolation while you are away. It will give the little guys a chance to settle, and when the bully is returned, he won't be top dog any more, so your have a more peaceful aquarium.

I'd treat with antibiotics before you go, just in case there is an underlying cause for the strange behaviour. Not sure if it affects your Bio Filter. Should tell you on the packet.

[k9outfit]

Thank you Ladyred!

Too weird.... I ended up by removing the 3 large ones from the tank (figured they could stand the stress of a move better than the sickie (sick-O?)) and suddenly the little sick guy sprouts horns and harrasses the other one nonstop! :roll: I seperated them with egg crate. They aren't eating well, but think it may be due to the egg crate, since they were before I put it in there?

I'll dose the tank with Maracyn 1&2, and just keep my fingers crossed.

Hard to believe that 3 days ago, I gave this little monster up for dead! I kid you not; he was on his side for over 4 hours, & turning black! As Taksan put it so succinctly: "Thats just BIZZARE ...... :shock: "