Discus Stunting

[nealio]

I have a quick question about my discus. I got them as fry about 3 months ago at about 1.5". They are now about 3" to 3.5" and someone told me that they look like there growth was stunted.

Here are a couple pics, what do you think?

I'm not sure how big their eyes should be at this stage in their life, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

One with reg lighting
http://www.nealJ.com/images/fishy/discus3.png


One with the antic light on
http://www.nealJ.com/images/fishy/discus4.png

Thanks again!

[Nathan]

the first one looks slightly stunted but definitely nothn to worry about, make sure you feed them with quality food, the trick is to feed them little but often!!

they look great an will look awesome when there older!

[scott bowler]

hi nealio they do look alittle stunted just to note how big is the tank that you have them in and like nathan said how often are they feed ? the more water or larger volume and the more food the bigger and quicker they will grow i have found that if you dont have a large tank then if you change the water more often .i have found they they get bigger . i have a 5x2x2 and all my adults are between 5and 8 inches hope i have helpped scott

[mcloughlin2]

Definantely stunted in my honest opinion. You should be able to fit at least 5 eyes in a line going down his face. Yours can only fit 3 or so.

Sam.

[nealio]

Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate your honest opinions!

Five eyes down the face it is.

They have been in a 28G for the last three months. I have a 55G I'm setting as we speak.

I feed them a variety of food. BH every other day and blood worms three times a day.

Can you tell from fry by their eyes if they have been stunted, or is it something they grow into?

I have pics from the day I got them

http://www.nealj.com/images/fishy/dicus1.png

http://www.nealj.com/images/fishy/dicus2.png

[Nathan]

there stunted for sure.

you should feed them a more varied diet, i feed mine bh in the morning, frozen blood worms in the arvo, an frozen brine shrimp at night.

you should be feeding them more of the beefheart then the blood worms IMO.

also try an get a good quality dry food an feed them that to!

all about high quality food but with variety!!

[Del]

nealio,

Why don't you try Tetra Colorbits, or similar. A dry food, soaked first, may help... :)

What are your frequency of waterchanges at present?

DEL

[samir]

do they eat from your hands ??? at that age they should be hanging out at the front of the tank begging for food all day. if that is not happening then you have some kind of internal parasite.

[mcloughlin2]

the first one looks slightly stunted but definitely nothn to worry about, make sure you feed them with quality food, the trick is to feed them little but often!!

they look great an will look awesome when there older!

LOL!

Do you have two people using your username?


there stunted for sure.

you should feed them a more varied diet, i feed mine bh in the morning, frozen blood worms in the arvo, an frozen brine shrimp at night.

you should be feeding them more of the beefheart then the blood worms IMO.

also try an get a good quality dry food an feed them that to!

all about high quality food but with variety!!




nealio,

Up your water changes and get them in the 4ft asap!

While you cannot cure stunting, you can certainly help prevent it getting worse!!!

[Nathan]

no, the second lot of photos look a lot more stunted then the first, do you have a problem with that? you seem to have a problem with a lot of my other posts?

[G-1000]

Mate,

They are stunted fairly badly to be straight up with you.

That eye is far too big and also, the body is growing longways but not upways - so its out of proportion too

G

[nealio]

The second batch of photos are from the day I got them.

My question is were they stunted to begin with, or did I stunt them myself?


As for feeding, I feed them some blood worms in the morning, I throw in two blocks of bh when I come home at lunch, and then some flake/bloodworm mix for dinner. They are ALWAYS at the top looking for food. Should I be constantly feeding them, or should I keep it to three times a day?


As for the 4' tank, I"m just going to clean it out and run it BB for now until my new stand comes in. I just didn't want to fill it with substrate, and then have to move it once it was cycled onto the new stand.


Thanks again for all your help!

[samir]

they will grow faster in a smaller tank with more water changes.if you have the time i suggest leave them in the small tank, remove the gravel and do a 50% water change everyday, even more if its practical.

[nealio]

I'm not as worried about how FAST they grow, I'm more concerned about them being stunted. If they have a better chance of growing better in the 55G then I would rather go with that solution.

I have a 20G out back that is empty. Would that work for the time being?

They are about 3" to 3.5" right now. If I should put them in the 20G, how long should I keep them there until I put them in the 55G?

Thanks again for all your help!!!
:D

[FishLover]

WCs are more important than size of the tank in terms of growth rate. Jack Watley did the tests and proved that to some degree.

Small tanks are easier for you to do more WCs than lager tanks. I would stay with the smaller tanks and do daily WCs, maybe more if you have the time. That will help with their growth for sure. As for how long do you want to keep them in the 20G, you can keep them there forever if you want to as long as you can keep up with the WCs. 20g is good for two full grown discus. If you at some point would want less WCs, them you can move them to the 55G tank and you may get away with twice weekly WCs as long as you don't over feed them.

[nealio]

I travel so much I don't have time to do one once a day. I do frequently WC when I have time, but I would need them to go without a WC for at least a day or two while I travel.

Would the 55G be a better set up? Its just sitting empty in my living room waiting for a new stand. I can live with the stand it has now and just drain the tank when the new tank comes in.

Thanks for the help! :D

[Dee]

Hi Nealio,

IMO those little guys are slightly stunted, but with regular WC's and a good feeding regime they will still make nice adults. WC 30% every second day and try to siphon waste off every day and top up, feed 3-4 times a day with BH and BS until they get thier shape and then introduce pellets and BW aswell as BH and BS.

I don't think they will ever be monster fish, but with the correct care they will grow out to be nice sized adults ... JMO. Best of luck with them mate, main thing is your happy with them ... it's a very time consuming job to grow out monster discus ;)

Cheers,

Dee :D

[Robdog]

Either that or try and create a new pygmy/dwarf strain :lol:

[Bill T]

I have 4 discus in a 240m litre tank. For quite a while they, too, looked stunted.
Lately they have put on a growth spurt - still not huge but getting bigger.

Anyway, I like my fish, even if they are a bit different.

[samir]

Either that or try and create a new pygmy/dwarf strain :lol:
A certain gentleman formerly known by the nickname of Rytis already beat him to that. :P

[Robdog]

K Thx

[*Chris*]

dude i cnat help but notice you have a baloon molly in with the discus
what are the water parameters in the tank
PH
KH
GH
that will also give us a fair idea of what is going on
cheers
chris

[mistakes r crucial]

In all probablility those fish have been stunted by the breeder by over crowding a batch of fry, it's so easy to do! Treat them well your end and you might end up with half decent fish, never great but something you'll be happy looking at.
MAC

[mcloughlin2]

Considering you are away often, the 55G would be ALOT better then a 20G .......

Water parameters are more stable, temp doesnt swing as much and WC's need to be done less regularly.

Sam.

[nealio]

Thanks for the serious responses...

The ballon molly was in there for that day, then I moved her to a 10G I was using for a QT tank. The water params are:

temp: 85/86f
PH 6.8

As for the GH and KH I never tested. My breeder lives close to me and uses tap so they haven't had a change in water. Before he sold them to me he asked me for a sample of water to test it to make sure they were going to a good home. I get a PH swing in my tap so I have to age it. It comes out around 8ph then settles down to 6.8ph over night. I'm guessing the water is fairly soft.

I will keep up with feeding and move them to the 55G. I set it up last night and added some ceramic biochips that I have been culturing in my established tank to start the cycle.

How long does it take to cycle a BB tank?

Should I even wait for a cycle to add them if I'm going to be doing so many WC's?

Again, thanks for all your help! :D

[nealio]

In all probablility those fish have been stunted by the breeder by over crowding a batch of fry, it's so easy to do! Treat them well your end and you might end up with half decent fish, never great but something you'll be happy looking at.
MAC

I know he uses artificial breeding

Here is a pic from his site:

http://www.cliffsdiscus.com/images/art_03.gif

I'm very new to this, so I didn't have an idea of how to pick the discus fry. Should I be looking for a breeder that uses a natural process? To tell you the truth I don't even know what the difference is.

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Nealio,

No, not at all. There is nothing wrong with raising fry artificially, it's a personal choice but alot more work than raising them naturally IMO.

Next time you make a purchase just take a careful look at the fish. With Asian strains the eye should be able to fit between 6 and 9 times between the top of the head and bottom of the chin area. I've never seen one fit anymore than about 6 but the books say up to 9. Take a look at its finage, is it a nice shape (round not long), are the fins fully extended and not clamped? It's always helpful to ask the breeder to feed them whilst you are there. If he says no or makes some other excuse I wouldn't buy them, fish at around 3 months old should want food all day long and will eat until they burst. If they're not hungry there is more than likely something wrong with their health.

The fish you have posted here are nice fish, yes they are a little stunted but with good care and regular water changes they will still grow to be something you should be proud of.
MAC

[nealio]

Thanks agian for the advice!

Should I wait for the 55G to cycle? Or is it ok to plop them in.

I went home at lunch and temp is set at 86 and ready to go.

[mcloughlin2]

Thanks agian for the advice!

Should I wait for the 55G to cycle? Or is it ok to plop them in.

I went home at lunch and temp is set at 86 and ready to go.

You need to place some guppies or ammonia or even a product that starts the tank cycle before adding your discus.

A empty tank will never cycle as it needs some waste in the tank to feed the bacteria.

Yes you need to wait for it too cycle.

[nealio]

I always run a fishless cycle... Ammonia is cheaper than guppies plus no fish are harmed.

Its cycling as we speak :)

Thanks again for all your help! Hopefully they will grow into their big eyes!

[Bill T]

I would like to do a fishless cycle for my next setup, but I simply cannot find a supplier of plain ammonium. Where do you get your ammonium from?

[samir]

from coles in the cleaning section