The altum experience.

[Merrilyn]

Being a complete optimist, I'm giving altums another try. :roll:

Now, wild caught altums are a fairly big challenge, but I figure heck, I'm a grandmother, that means I can do anything 8-)

So today I came home with ten gorgeous little altums, thanks to one of our sponsors, Finland Aquarium in Melbourne.

I have a heavily planted tank, with lots of driftwood and a pH of 5.6. Eheim filter and DuBarry UV. They are sharing the tank with a hundred neons, who have been in quarantine for the last month. So far, so good. They are all eating well and behaving normally. I think having the neons in the tank has helped them to settle in.

Angels, and expecially altums, are pretty smart fish. They seem to know that if the smaller fish are out and happily eating, then all must be right with the world, and it's safe for them to come out and play. They're exploring the tank, pecking at the plants and fighting amongst themselves, just the way I would expect normal healthy little fish to behave.

They'll stay in this 250 lt tank for the next few months, till they get some size, and then they'll be transferred to the ten foot tank, with some wild discus for company.

I've learned a lot, since keeping the last colony of altums. Lesson number one being don't add any new fish to an established colony, even after careful quarantine. My two year old colony was wiped out when I introduced a new fish that was evidently carrying some kind of virus. Lost 22 large altums in a week :cry: and that's enough to make anybody cry.

After 12 months of being altum free, I've decided to take the plunge again, this time taking a few more precautions. :wink:

Fingers crossed.

I'll put up some photos tonight.

[Roy]

Good luck with this new lot, nothing worse than losing an entire tanks worth of fish due to some wacky disease.
Looking forwards to some pics, really must visit FinLand sometime soon for a look.

Roy

[scott bowler]

good luck LR hope it all gose well good to see you trying again with them .i only have discus but love these guy and one day may give it a go my self so can you keep us posted and maybe i will learn some things from you witch would be nice thank you scott

[samir]

They'll stay in this 250 lt tank for the next few months, till they get some size, and then they'll be transferred to the ten foot tank, with some wild discus for company.

some pictures please. what wild discus do you have ??? the 10 foot setup would look amazing. please do post pictures if and when you get the time. its a pity Sydney Aquarium doesn't have a wild discus/angels exhibit.

[Ben]

Thats some very good infomation Merrilyn!

You dont need luck! I am sure they will grow into adult hood and last many years!

Put me down for some juvies when you breed them!

Cheers
Ben

[Cuong]

I think this is already a valuable source of information for those wanting to keep altums and I hope you're able to keep this updated with the good and bad, although I'm sure it'll all be good :D

[Merrilyn]

As promised, some pictures of the altums in their new home. Apologies for the quality of the pics :oops: (taksan where are you when I need you )

The tank water is quite stained with tanins from the driftwood, so makes the fish a little more difficult to photograph (well that's my excuse anyway, and I'm sticking to it :wink: ) Afraid you'll just have to settle for these photos till we get our expert camera man on the job.

[Dee]

Hiya Merrilyn,

Very nice little true alt's .... love em. Best of luck with this group, I remember seeing your last group and instantly falling in love with true alt's then and there. I'm sure this group will turn into being stunning adults in your care ;) Would love to see pics as they develop :D

Cheers,

Dee :D

[Merrilyn]

Interesting to note that the stripes on true altums are brown and silver, bordered by white.

Peruvians and scalare have black and silver stripes, so it's not just the dished face that distinguishes altums. You need to look closely at the stripes. And altums don't have red eyes :wink:

[sonflowerjoela]

All of you pics are lovely! I like the altums too. Had never heard of them before. I wonder if they are available around here?

[scott bowler]

hi LR your fish are realy nice how big are these little guys ? scott

[samir]

Interesting to note that the stripes on true altums are brown and silver, bordered by white.

thats what my book said. :P
how about a pic of the 200 tetras :shock: in a group. that must look awesome .

[Mattzilla]

awesome stuff lr

good luck with them

can't wait to see more pictures

matt

[Reillin]

Wow Merrilyn,

They certainly are cute. And I have to say, they certainly look nothing like normal angels in the shop. The altums were almost marine-like, hard to explain, but that term seems to fit.

Well done to Finland Aquarium for bringing in some rare stuff available in Melbourne and at such a reasonable price as well. I thought they were out of this poor man's league, but I'm reconsidering. Definitely will fight Ladyred tooth and nail for some altum action in the next round.

Cheers,
Vien.
On a side note, I don't really need anymore altums, since I bought that colony of adult altums from the VCS auction. :p

wink@Merrilyn. :lol:

[Merrilyn]

Scott, the fish are are around the size of a 20 cent coin plus fins.

Scott, I'll get our resident cool photo guy to take some better photos for me, and show you all the little tetras. 8-)

Vinny, all I can say to you is "you'll keep mate" :whip :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DiscusMad]

VCS auction????

[sammigold]

Your Altums look gorgeous LR. I am sorry to hear about what happened to your other babies... I remember seeing their pics and admiring them.
Good luck with these little guys although I know you dont need it!

[Namn8r]

óh the jealousy!!....

they wil be my next project once i get a new tank!

[Merrilyn]

The little guys are still going strong. Eating everything in sight, and growing like weeds.

Thanks to Finland for a realy healthy batch of altums. Two thumbs up to you guys.

I'm stoked.

And I'm going to win the bet against taksan :wink:

[Xtreme]

And I'm going to win the bet against taksan :wink:


You go girl!! :D

[taksan]

And I'm going to win the bet against taksan :wink:


Na ...... they r all gonna die :roll:

[Xtreme]

And I'm going to win the bet against taksan :wink:


Na ...... they r all gonna die :roll:

You a mean mean man!! :P :P

[Proteus]

Hey, the past says Taksan is correct... oh, thats right, those fish were from elsewhere... the mystery wild caught, German bred super fish

[Merrilyn]

Just get ready to pay up big guy.

Wanna play double or nothing :wink:

[nicholas76]

Merris!


you will breed these ones !!


best of luck mate

[taksan]

Here is a pic of something that will never happen .....

http://eyoyo.free.fr/zaltoumes/6moisgr2.jpg


8-)

[Roy]

Look pretty lively to me :D

Roy

[Th0mas]

So what's the difference between different altums?

There's the orinoco, peruvian and surinam from what I've heard. I'm confused.

Thomas.

[scott bowler]

they look fantastic very healthy and happy and look like they have grown a little too not looking good for you big guy shes goin well

[Merrilyn]

You have far too much time on your hands taksan.

Go do some work :whip

[Merrilyn]

Thomas, there is only one true altum, and that's the orinoco altum.

The others have been dubbed altums because they have some of the characteristics of the true altum i.e. the dished face and the very tall fins, but they are very different, and much more common fish.

I have wild caught peruvians at home as well, and I'll post some pics of them later tonight.

[Dee]

Hey Matt,

That's a great pic mate, one of your pics or is it a download ?

I got a feeling Merrilyn's gonna kick much @#$% with this bet, great to hear they are doing well Merrilyn ... cant wait till you post a pic that puts Matt's to shame ;)

Cheers,

Dee :D

[Dee]

I was just looking at the pic Matt posted and noticed that some of those true Alt's seem to have noticibly red eyes :shock: I have always thought that true Alt's had light amber coloured eyes ... or am I talking out my @#$% ? Just thought I would ask !

Cheers,

Dee :D

[taksan]

The posted pic contains tank bred altums in a tank in Holland.

:roll:

[Noddy65]

I thought so because the plant behind them is Parrot feather, Illegal in Aus as far as I know :D

Mike

[Robdog]

I believe there was a bet going on here?? Any progress?

[Merrilyn]

My altums are still all strong and healthy, and eating like little pigs. *doing the happy dance and poking my tongue out at you know who*

I would post some photos of them, but someone (who shall for the moment remain nameless) refuses to take photos of them.

Guess I shall just have to take piccies myself :roll: even if they're not very good. :wink:

[scott bowler]

yes merrilyn you should i would love to see how they are looking but knowing you they will look great , good to see you are making some one eat there words haha

[benjohnson]

Merrillyn... where are these piccies of your Altums?!! They look beautiful... would be really interested to see how their doing :D :D :D

[Merrilyn]

Finally talked Taksan 8-) into taking some photos for me. I set him quite a challenge trying to take pics in that lovely tanin coloured water, and using my camera instead of his supa dupa one :wink:

But you have to agree, they're all alive and well, and nothing wrong with their appetite :lol:

[Merrilyn]

More.... all 16 of them are alive and well.

[DiscusEden]

:shock: They are stunning Merrilyn!

I was wondering why someone could use tank space for anything but discus, but looking at those I suddenly get it!

If they breed, would the F1's look the same? I think it's the colour of the borders on the stripes that are drawing me in, combined with the dished face - a bit like an arab (horse). Beautiful!

(Not that I want to get on the man's bad side, but you make him eat his words!)

[Merrilyn]

He will be eating humble pie once October comes.

I have discovered the secret of keeping altums alive :wink:

[DiscusEden]

Does the secret involve not letting him near tham unsupervised?

[Merrilyn]

HAHAHA I'll have to be careful around September I think.

[endless]

Whats happening in September and October?

[Robdog]

That is Taksan's deadline for their life expectancy I believe.

[Merrilyn]

By October, I will have had the fish for 12 months, and I win the little bet I have running with Taksan, who predicted they would be dead within the year.

Wild caught altums are notoriously difficult to keep, and frequently die within a few weeks of purchase.

So far, so good. :wink:

[Roy]

Might want to give the plant leaves a little clean up Mez, but the Altums look fantastic.

Roy

[taksan]

At this rate they might have to go in with a little friend of mine called mouth almighty 8-)

[Merrilyn]

Well that will be the only way they are gonna die :twisted:

And mouth almighty is far too polite to eat my altums. He'd rather wait for me to feed him prawns :lol:

Six months and counting hun :wink:

[scott bowler]

they look awesome merrilyn it was worth the two month what for the pics hehe

[DiscusWidow]

Merrilyn,

Our Angels have had babies, and Scott said they will die...

Can you tell me how to stop this happening, I refuse to accept this...

[Merrilyn]

Don't let taksan any where near them LOL

[scott bowler]

what she didnt tell you merrilyn is there are two batches of fry in a comunity tank with 8 other angels and i was not prepared for them to pair up and spawn . becouse i did seethem pairing i didnt move them so know im in trouble becouse im going to let them go . it is the first for the angels and so ill see how they go. as well as the fact that i dont have the space to raise the fry at the moment with all the move ing of fish for the new arrivals and mo when we get here .

[scott bowler]

oh sorry for hijacking your post too the Altums are very nice and you are doing well

[Merrilyn]

LOL no problems Scott.

[endless]

Wild caught altums are notoriously difficult to keep, and frequently die within a few weeks of purchase.

I know that too well! :(

[Merrilyn]

I know how devestated you were to lose them endless.

I'm sure you'll be successful next time, if you decide to keep altums again.

They're not an easy fish, but it can be done.

[endless]

I'm definately giving them another go. Been looking around but no seems to have them at the moment. I asked a few lfs to import them for me so if anyone knows where i can get some please let me know. Im not giving up until i solve their mystery

[taksan]

Drool away people ......

http://eyoyo.free.fr/altum070223.mov

http://eyoyo.free.fr/altums.mov

http://eyoyo.free.fr/zaltoumes/009_groupe15.jpg

[Merrilyn]

Admit it, you're jealous aren't you taksan.

My fish will look like that soon enough.

[nicholas76]

***BUMP***


update pics required :)

[Merrilyn]

I agree Nick, it is time for more photos of those gorgeous, fat, healthy Altums.

Just might have to get taksan to take some more photos :wink:

[scott bowler]

yeah that would be great merrilyn , i would love to see how they are going

[benjohnson]

How are your angels getting on Merrilyn ???

[taksan]

They r alive ...... :(

[Merrilyn]

Better than alive.

They are fat and healthy and gorgeous.

And I'm going to win the bet, well and truely :lol: :lol:

[Zbiljc]

Hi!

I drove home some of altums. I think that, they are real altum.

I have some questions.

When they grow up (I hope they will)?

What' s about breeding? I read that it's hard. I don't know anybody who had or has any altums, because they are really rare.

[Merrilyn]

Just a quick update.

The altums are over a year old now, soon to be moved into the ten foot tank, where a whole new album of photos will begin :P

[scott bowler]

they look awesome mezz good to see the bet must be won surely hehe

[samir]

when are you planning to turn into the first altum breeder ?

[Zbiljc]

When they start breeding?

[nicholas76]

When they start breeding?

LOL samir you were just owned :lol:

[samir]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

i'm a bit confused by the breeding of true Orinoco altums part :? I've read about german bred altums on this forum..

As far as I know they have never been bred in captivity. :?

Here's a quote from Heiko Bleher on Simply Discus 25/02/07
"The problem in Asia is, still today in most of the countries, that no one really knows what a real Heckel discus (S. discus) is, or looks like. They are totally fixed to tank breed varieties, almost everywhere. And most breeders and discus keepers believe a discus with a center bar is a Heckel discus (and in most of the Asian publcations it is shown and mentioned as such). I have never seen a single S. discus x S. discus breeding anywhere (at more than 300 breeders, from India, across Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, Korea, to Taiwan), only Heckel cross discus, that is a cross of a Heckel discus (S. discus) with a blue discus (S. haraldi). Even recently, in November/December of 2006, when I was invited for lectures on discus and to Judge in Malaysia (AQUAFAIR 2006) and in Singapore (World Discus Championships) and visted more than 50 breeders again in both counntries, no one had a single S. discus anywhere...
But all those which had a Heckel cross, they thought it was a Heckel discus...

Sorry but these are facts, as much as the facts that the real Pterophyllum altum from upper Orinoco (its type locality) has never been breed in captivity..."

[Xtreme]

Thats very interesting Samir