How successfull a planted tank can be with just sand?

[thabone]

Guys I'm a newbie here and I'll like to start a planted aquarium for my soon to come discus. I buyed 55 or 60 pounds of white fine sand for my 55gls tank.

I've heard that you can't have a planted aquarium with just sand as sustrate. How true is this? If this is true then what can I do?

Is there any webpage that specifies how to start a planted tank?

Ideas and suggestions are welcome.

Your help is much appreciated.

[Noddy65]

Heres a pic of my tank with just a gravel/fine gravel substrate..

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a378/Noddy65/4latest.jpg

I have high light and inject CO2 and fertilise to supply the plants with their nutrients...

Mike

[TomNS]

mike tank looks great what ferts do you use ?

I was hoping someone had an australian PMDD version or something similar

Cheers Tom

[Noddy65]

Hi Tom...I sort of use the EI method...I use dry ferts...KH2PO4, Mg SO4,Potassium sulphate and Potassium Nitrate but don't stick strictly to the EI method. I find algae issues if I do...
I suppose Ivee spent $40 on dry ferts and they've lasted me more than year so far..I also use Seachem Iron and Flourish as traces. I would dose maybe once or twice a week.
Again Ive spent about $40 on traces and its lasted me more than a year but if you read around there are cheaper traces to use (Yates). Im gonna give them a shot when Ive used up my Seachem stuff.
It's a 4 x 2 x 2 tank.

Mike

[thabone]

Don't want to be mean but you guys are talking about some high tech stuff. Those are complicated things for a newbie.

I'm just learning my way up and you haven't answered my question yet. I'm not talking about gravel or nutrients yet.

I'm talking about using sand as sustrate for a planted aquarium. This aquarium is planned to be a low light for less or none buffers added.

What are the probabilities?

[duck]

It should be ok ,My only concern,Depending on how fine the sand is it could compact to much for the plants to send roots out.

[thabone]

So it means fine sand is going to choke the roots? You mean that I need to provide the plants with something that let the roots "breath"? I've seen little baskets where the plants are inserted with some kind of cotton? I think it's not easy for you guys to explain me too much so.. Do you know of a website where I could get some starter kit for planted aquariums?

[duck]

I don't know which part of my post you don't understand.
I said it should be fine,My concern was if it was too fine like super fine it could compact hard like a rock.
Is the cotton stuff hard ie solid?
You want to go with something like 1mm size -3mm for the substrate,
Or the other way is to buy a purpose made substrate for plants,Like Flourite,Eco-Complete,red sea,JBL,ADA.

[thabone]

Duck I do understand your post I just want more information because it seems you're starting to get upset trying to explain me.

I know is not that easy to explain. I go through this everyday providing network tech support. :P

[Noddy65]

Hi Bone
Both your and ducks posts are clear.
Very fine sand may compact down to become very hard, it means that roots wont grow through it well, nutrients wont get to the roots and the bottom of the plans may rot off.
Another option is to have logs and rocks in there and use species that can grow attached to the rock/logs etc. java fern comes to mind but I'm sure there are others.
country are you in, thee are some on line places that will sell plants but a visit to your LFS should also help. be careful though as many LFS also sell plants that aren't aquatic, make sure you ask.
Mike

[fish_r]

if u cant understand what the people are trying to explain here, go here http://www.plantgeek.net/
and do some research for urself BUT dont expect the answers to be fed to u on a plater "research"

[thabone]

Fish_r I'm doing my best to make myself clear and understand what you guys write here since english is not my first language.

But if you still care about me understanding what other try to say you have two options, try to explain it in a better way or stay away from the post. Since you don't have to be bothered because I don't understand. Just keep walking!

[Robdog]

Fiesty little bugger! :)

I think Mike has done a pretty good job with his explanation. You mentioned that you have 60lbs of "white fine sand" so if it is too fine you will find that it compacts and becomes very hard over time. When it compacts it gets too hard for the plants roots to spread and creates an anerobic environment where the roots will rot.

Maybe buy a coarser grade of sand and also something under the sand e.g peat

[fish_r]

maybe it's because of ur english isn't very good, but u come accross very sarcastic to me "i dont speak for any body else" but i tried to point u in the right direction, and if u dont want to help ur self how can u expect others to help u :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DiscusEden]

What kind of sand did you buy? Did it have a label or brand? Was it pool filter sand? That's often recommended.

DiscusEden

[Merrilyn]

Okay guys, let's all take a step back and take a deep breath. :P

Thabone, the guys have done a great job of trying to explain things to you, but perhaps you're not quite ready for advanced information.

Let's get back to basics. You asked if plants can be grown in fine white sand. Well I guess the answer is yes, they can be, and I have done it, but they were mainly stem plants, like wisteria. They did very well when I added a bit of liquid fertilizer to the tank each week, but they did manage to survive before I began using fertilizer.

I've also tried growing amazon sword plants in sand. They are what's called root feeders. In other words the roots search for nourishment in the sand. They didn't do any good at all until I began putting fertilizer tablets around the plants, they they stopped dropping their leaves, and began growing.

I guess the main thing you need to know is that there is no nourishment in just sand for the plants to grow. It looks great, and it's easy to clean, but there's just no food in there for the plants.

You can add food a couple of ways, either by putting in in the water, or by putting it under the sand. Just the droppings from the fish won't be enough to fertilize your plants. You will need to add some kind of nutrients so that your plants will grow.

If you can tell us the type of plants you have in mind, then I'm sure the guys who are a lot more experienced with plants than me, will be able to tell you exactly what you need.

:P

[Proteus]

How successfull can a planted tank can be with just sand?

well I have cheated a little with some fert base under the sand, but anyway...

[thabone]

What kind of sand did you buy? Did it have a label or brand? Was it pool filter sand? That's often recommended.

DiscusEden

I don't remember the brand of the sand but some guy told me to put some sand on a cup then put some vinegar in it to verify if it was harmless. The vinegar didn't made any bubbles so he told me the sand was good for the tank.

[thabone]

LadyRed thank you so much for been nice. I know is not easy for all of you to make me understand.

I thank all of you for trying hard helping me.

ANd Thanls Proteus for that info. That's what I'm looking easy to understand info based on experience.

I was told to use some peatmoss below the sand. Do I need to change the moss on a scheduled basis or can it be maintained below the sand?

[thabone]

Do I need to change the moss on a scheduled basis or can it be maintained below the sand?

[Robdog]

If the peat moss is under the sand then to do anything to it you would have to remove the sand. I'm not sure how long it could last under there until it becomes useless and all the nutrients is used up.
I think Pro has used this method so better waiting for a response from him.