Potassium pregmate all i got to use?

[Mulisha]

Hi guys

I have 2 discus and they have a bad case of flukes they flick both there anal fins and there top fins and will flick there fins near there anal as well. They flick these fins alot and sometimes will flick that much they will at times dart around the tank banging into the glass.

The male i have does have 2 fairly deep scratchs from him darting around the tank..

I firstly used Fluke and Tapeworm tabs then the flukes came back.
I then tryed pure prazi off MAC and then the flukes still came back after that.
So then i had to use Trichflron about 2 weeks ago and now my fish have started showing the same symptoms as when i first used the Fluke and tapeworms tabs..

What do you think i should do?? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

The fish at the moment have been getting daily w/c and sometime every second day. I have been adding 1 teaspoon of salt per 40L water..

I have no idea what to do do i go buy some PP from the chemist and use that or what should i do??

Thanks for any of ur help!!

Thankyou

Rick. :cry:

[samir]

be very careful when using KMn04. do you have another tank to move your fish to after treating ???

[Ben]

I would not recommend using PP as there is a fine between killing the discus and the flukes!

If it were I at this stage I would do nothing other than WC every day (%30) and feed nutritious foods.

Discus if looked after in optimum conditions has an excellent immune level.

[Phlipper]

Just a shot in the dark here but...are you so sure it's flukes ?, seems to me with all the treatment given you should of got rid of it by now. Could it be some irritant within the water supply itself, maybe try a different water source, or as well run some activated carbon in the tank to see if that removes some possible irritant from the water, might be worth a shot :idea:

[Dee]

Just a shot in the dark here but...are you so sure it's flukes ?, seems to me with all the treatment given you should of got rid of it by now. Could it be some irritant within the water supply itself, maybe try a different water source, or as well run some activated carbon in the tank to see if that removes some possible irritant from the water, might be worth a shot :idea:

I'm with Phlipper on this one Rick, after all those meds ... especially trichlorfon, you would think that the flukes would be back to managable levels. As Phlipper has said, I would be looking at your water source mate ... what additives do you add to your water ??? list everything you add each water change ie: prime, KH powders etc. I would personally not add anything to your water for a while and do daily 30% WC's and add carbon to the tank for a week and see how that goes mate.

Cheers,

Dee :)

[Dee]

Forgot to say that using PP is too risky IMO for anyone that has not had experience with it, if not used correctly it can be VERY STRESSFULL for the fish and posibly kill them along with all your filters etc. It is also advised to have a steralised clean tank to put them in after treatment with PP.

Cheers,

Dee:)

[Mulisha]

Thanks guys for ya help.

Well my water is rain water and all i do is add some prime to the water and maybe a little salt.

Water Specs:
PH:5.5
KH:0
GH:0

Temp in the tank is 32.4

I have thought the same thing maybe it's not flukes but that's all i could think of when they would rub against a heater or something..

Do i just put some carbon in my canister filter that's running on the tank?

Thanks for all your help guys i thought the same the meds i already have used should have killed 99% of them..

Cheers

Rick.

[Phlipper]

If you are using 100% rainwater then that could very well explain the problem, who knows whats coming off the roof from the atmosphere ! or from leaf litter, dust etc. Rainwater is a great supplement, or can be sometimes, but some of the contaminants in the atmosphere these days are very unsuitable for fish habitation. I use a 30% rainwater mix in all my tanks, and over time have noticed that if I increase the rainwater quantity many of my fish show adverse reactions to it. Even under the 30% mix every now and then my fish dont seem themselves and seem irritated, and if I do a water change using 100% tap water they almost always perk up.

It is a well known fact that using rainwater comes with a certain amount of risk, pollutants from factories etc can travel thousands of miles, you dont necessarily have to live near one to recieve the effects, particularly if you live in an area where the wind blows from industrial areas. Acid rain is a sad and regretable aspect of the world we live in these days, you only have to drive near a Queensland sugar mill and smell the acrid stench to understand the problem. Was it you, or someone else that had unbelievably low PH readings from their rainwater, I dont remeber who it was, but that certainly indicates acid rain is a major factor in rainwater quality.

This is what I would try......................can you or do you already use an aging barrell, get one of these, fill it with water, rain water if you must ? but preferably a mix. Run a corner style canister filter loaded with activated carbon via an air pump into the aging barrell for 2 or 3 days prior to use, this should help remove most of impurities, polish the water up well and add nothing else at all except for maybe a little salt at the 1 teaspoon to 40 litres. If indeed the water quality is the problem it will take several large water changes to solve it, so as soon as the aging barell is used up, refill it and "Replace the Activated Carbon" and repeat the process ready for the next water change in a few days.

Aging/mixing barrells are a great idea, not just to remove chlorine but also to add any additives and mix them thoroughly rather than dose straight into the tank, they also make water changes much simpler if you have a spare water pump with hose attatched to refill the tank with.

You could also try the carbon within the canister filter in operation atm, but that becomes a hassle to remove it and replace it regularly, in your situation the carbon should be removed and replaced at least every week. The only real problem with using activated carbon in the main tank and not in an aging barrell is that not only will it assist in removing impurities, it will also remove other additives like plant fertiliser, prime etc etc.

I really think if you can manage it this may very well solve your problem, but short cuts may render the process next to useless, it's worth a try i think, see if you can and get back to us after a couple of weeks of thios treatment, good luck mate 8-)

[Mulisha]

Thanks alot Phil and everyone i only just got home from work and i turned the light on to find the female breathing fast and only out 1 gill.. :(

The tank has a very small amount of gravel becuase i was having problems with reflection etc..

If i was to put my disucs in a bucket for like 3hrs maybe 4hrs while i move there tank from in my room into my garage and i put a air stone in the bucket do you think this will be ok becuase i have aging barrel set up out there and i could get some carbon happening etc out there..

By the way when the carbon is exhausted how do i make it all good again?

Thanks guys for all your help i really didn't think rainwater would cause my discus to breath out 1 gill but if so atleast i'll be able to fix the problem :D

Cheers

Rick.

[samir]

i still think its flukes. maybe do a scrape off one of you fish from the gill to the tail and get it looked at under the microscope. then treat for what you find. after you treat put them in a sterile tank otherwise the bugs keep coming back.

[Mulisha]

But if it is flukes Samir what am i going to treat it with ?
I don't even know how these fish got this in the first place :(

Thanks for ya help

Rick.

[samir]

i suggest getting a scrape and checking it out. you can treat flukes with a combination of formalin and salt. any fluke treatment is more effective with salt. when using formalin aerate heavily.

[mistakes r crucial]

I have never had to use rain water but that is some excellent common sense information from Phil. The one thing that would concern me are your hardness readings. IMO you need to get some minerals in your water or your always going to get hassles of one type or another, your fish need them for health and growth and your water needs them for stability.
MAC

[*Chris*]

mate some cases pf flukes when not treated properly can hang on to the last minute and become so immune to anything you try to treat them with the potassium may be dangerous but you have been battling for well over a month and half
time to act mate treat them hard and dont hesitate
its a half hour treatment in a bucket
just do it before i come to queensland and kick you in the butt
no disrespect is meant guys your oppinions are golden
BUT i have spoke to rick and dealt with his complaints day in and day out over his fluke problem
i think it is definantly time to do something mate the more you hesitate the longer your discus have to suffer
EXAI

[ozarowana]

Did they look better after treating with the other meds?

[*Chris*]

yes for about 2 days in between even a couple of hours in one instance
it is flukes he has sent me images and videos and i have talked to him daily about itit is flukes and a bugger of a strain at that
EXAI

[ozarowana]

On that info, I'd have to agree with EXAI.

Is the tank bare or gravelled/planted?

Did you repeat the trichlorfon dose? What dosage did you use?

A half hour dip in a bucket may not solve the problem. They may get reinfected if placed back into the same tank. I guess that depends on how many eggs/cysts are present in the tank.

[Mulisha]

On that info, I'd have to agree with EXAI.

Is the tank bare or gravelled/planted?

Did you repeat the trichlorfon dose? What dosage did you use?

A half hour dip in a bucket may not solve the problem. They may get reinfected if placed back into the same tank. I guess that depends on how many eggs/cysts are present in the tank.

Well i'm moving the tank there in from in my room into my garage and the tank will be completly emptyed and then filled back up and i'll be using a spare sponge filter i have that is no soaking in boiling water to kill anything so hopefully the will be ok ..

I have some PP and will be dosing tonight sometime.

Thanks guys..

[sammigold]

I recently had an infestation of gill and body flukes and costia on my goldfish (dont ask...bad me put new fish in without quarantine)...

I lost 10 out of 13 fish.... I treated with sterazin, meth blue (costia) I dosed the sterazin as per instructions... went back to LFS for scrape still had flukes not as bad but still heaps!, dosed with prazi powder, went back a week later still had them, dosed with the sterazin again, went back they were down to about 6 flukes on a scale but still hanging on!!

Finally dosed Trichlorfon (para blast tablets) took them back and only a couple left so I dosed again and now my fish seem fine but it took me nearly 2 months to get rid of them, lucky for me my LFS was kind enough to not charge for the scrapes... now I have 3 fish and things are ok but I lost all my pond plants they just disintergrated...(I know I should have taken them out but by the time I remembered it was too late)

Persistance is the key sometimes... but yeah you get to the point where you just have to get aggressive...

[Mulisha]

Thanks for that sammi i have been battling flukes for ages now and really has not got to a point now i can't handle it anymore and now it has come to take some big measurements becuase these flukes really are resitant..

At the moment my male is sliding up the heater and then flicking aginst the the filter intake pipe and the female i don't really see flick much just sits and flicks her fins and gets all upset and stuff and will dart around the tank. I think time has come to use the Potasium Preg i'm going from instructions from EX A1 FISHBOY as he has lots of experence with illness etc.

I have also got some very great infomation on PP from this great thread
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2547&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=20

I think if i follow instruction completly not a drop to much and no a minute to long i should be fine i hope!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I have got my PP from my chemist today and they measured out 1 gram for me :lol: and then i measure out 1L of water into a drink bottle i think i'm dead on 1L maybe like 40ML to much or to less not sure.. but i got it pretty exact..

Well tommorow i'll put these guys in a bucket with 6L of water for both of them this should be enough for them with a air stone??

This bath will be for 30mins then they will go into a tank that has been moved from my room into my garage with a clean sponge filter and then tank with 100% clean water that will be pre heated to 29 degress but i'll add a heater and bring it up to 32 and add 1 teaspoon salt per 40L water to healp with slime production...

What do you guys/gurls think ? I think i'm doing the right thing these guys have had flukes for ages now and i think it's not time to put a stop to it!

Thanks for all your help and i'll kee you posted please post up if you have any suggestions or anything..

Thanks alot for ya help!

Cheers

Rick. 8-) 8-) 8-)

[sammigold]

good luck!!!

[Mulisha]

Well i went well fish didn't seem to stress much i did a 30min bath they are eating a little bit and i'm doing daily w/c.

Do you guys think i need to redose in 7 days?

I didn't use one thing from my old tank except my old tank that was emptyed rinsed then dryed with a towel so there shouldn't be on injected thing do you think it's a good idea to redose or do i leave them now and let there imune system take over?

I haven't seen them flick or carry on yet so that's a good thing :)

Cheers

Rick.

I'll keep ya posted..
:D

[Phlipper]

Sounds promising 8-) good luck with the treatment, but someone else would need to answer if a second treatment is needed. But I have never used a PP treatment before, so just what is the doseage reccomendation ?

[Mulisha]

I used 10ml per 1L water i did use a bucket with a air stone and i used a stopwatch and did the bath for 30mins they then went into a sterile tank and now no flicking or anything so i'll keep you posted.. 8-)

[*Chris*]

its because you actually listened and followed through with what i had told you LOL
hahahahahahaah
see i told you it would work and your fish would be fine
and yes i think you should redose
but having said that you will probably ask the forum again anyway
EXAI

[Mulisha]

its because you actually listened and followed through with what i had told you LOL
hahahahahahaah
see i told you it would work and your fish would be fine
and yes i think you should redose
but having said that you will probably ask the forum again anyway
EXAI

Does it hurt to ask for other peoples oppions???????????

If i don't see a reason to redose i won't simple as that..

My question is if my fish are 100% sterile after the treatment and the tank and everything in it are 100% sterile how can there even be flukes left at all?

The reason i didn't go out and belive you straight away Chris is becuase i had never met you before or spoke to you so i didn't know if you were some random guy the could be talking crap...

I have been learning off this forum ever since i have started keeping discus so that's why i come back here to ask questions becase i know a few people on here and i know there giving out very good advice etc

Don't take it the wrong way just thought that was the easyiest way to say it..

Cheers

Guys for ya help! 8-)

[Phlipper]

Well put Rick, and I'm glad you seem to be on top of it at this stage 8-) time will tell I guess.

And thanx for the doseage answer, wouldn't of known unless you told me 8-)

[Mulisha]

Yeah no worrys mate i was suprised how well the treatment went. When you do the treatment in the future it's also wise to add a air stone to the bucket/hospital tank to keep the O2 levels.

What PP does i think is burns of there slime coat and any bugs or eggs or cysts with it and it does clean there gills out as well. The after the treatment i added salt and now they look fine there eating at the moment and i haven't seen any flicking.

Quick question i added back some driftwood to the tank and after like 3 or 4 days the wood will colect little food particles and stuff does this normally happen to any of you and how do you find the best way to get rid of it? I try and suck the wood with the w/c hose but it's hard to get off..

Thanks guys for ya help..

Rick... :D

[Phlipper]

Same thing happens to me, but I let my Bristlenoses and Yoyo's take care of it 8-)