Yellow Breeding

[GreenDiscus]

Hi Discus Forum

Whilst I used to keep Brown and Heckel Discus some years back in the UK, I have since moved to NZ, and now Brisbane where I have now gone back to this fascination. I have only just joined the forum after stumbling across the web site !!

Ive bred some pigeons and had numerous batches of spider snakeskin eggs eaten, but have now moved into some nice Yellows out of Malaysia. There were only two left in the tank when I bought them but they have paired and bred two batches now with the first up to 10cm of great shape !!

My First question is - The dealer did not know the variety of the Discus - see photo - anyone know ??

My Second question is one of Colour - when only 1 cm long a few were flourescent clear yellow, but even at 10cm one or two are still not even near the colour of BOTH of the parents, and are not so clean having black dots all over - However, the tank background and substrate are black which highlights this.

So is this GENETIC with too much interbreeding, or will they all Yellow-up and become "clearer" ??. Ive actually split them up now and one has bred with a superb hi fin blue diamond with babies just off the parents yesterday - interesting !!!

Regards to you all
Mike

[FishLover]

I think the black dots you said is called peppring. It will not go away. Only get worse. It is not a good thing to have for most discus. Not a good gene to have.

[GreenDiscus]

Hey Great - Thanks for the rapid response fishlover

I had a feeling it may be genetic, but neither of the parents have signs of it. Both parents now have new partners of completly different strains, so if one new pairing has the "peppering" and "lack of colour" in offspring, I can stop using that parent !

However, some of the babies (5cm not 10cm as stated) are fantastic in yellow colour and clarity, but only 10 out of the 50. But would these still carry the Gene you talk about ??

[DIY]

The peppering isn't from inbreeding, it's from Pigeon Blood heritage / genetics.

Dark substrates / backgrounds bring out the peppering, keeping them in a tank with a light coloured substrate/background may clean them up a bit. However they will always show peppering, and be worse in a dark or planted tank.

Given the pigeon blood background, I'd call the fish in your picture maybe a yellow melon?

[samir]

your fish looks fine, when they have fry the peppering tends to show more. looks like a very nice fish to me. what we need to work on is your image resizing skills :P :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mcloughlin2]

I think the black dots you said is called peppring. It will not go away. Only get worse. It is not a good thing to have for most discus. Not a good gene to have.

This is not true ...

Peppering can go away if conditions are changed ... there has been experiaments conducted on peppering ... using a lighter background or substance can reduce peppering signifigantly ...

While if you use a darkj background or substance it can bring the peppering out more ...

Some people desire discus with peppering ..
Others frown upon it ...
It really comes down tp persoanal choice ...

[FishLover]

Hmmm... Mine kept getting worse and worse. I guess the dark background may have something to do with it. I have a blue backgroupd and light brown substance.

Few of my discus were first showing up a bit peppering when they were small. They have much more darker black dots these days. I have not changed the background since I bought them. There is a bit of algae build up at the back of the tank that makes the background a bit more darker. I did not bother to clean it up since I saw some of my discus picking on the algae. I thought it was a good food source for them so I left it there. Maybe I should start cleaning up the back wall from now on.

Personally, I hate the black dots. I would not buy any discus with peppering in the future.

[mcloughlin2]

Try using a light blue background ...
Clean the algae of the back wall and any other wall for that matter ...
Try to change your substance as well ... I used a brown substance and housed a peppering free red melon in there and the peppering slowly appeared ...

They also show peppering if the water conditions are not right, or even if the lights are left on too long ... :shock:

HTH

[GreenDiscus]

The comment on picture resizing was taken onboard...See attached.
So, I attach a picture of one of the better yellow babies with less peppering than most and a better colour overall. Pity only 5 out of 50 like this and even then some peppering (none on parents)
The black background and substrate with good light has many advantages for showing many fish but clearly from comments not for peppered individuals

[FishLover]

very good indeed. How big are they?

[mcloughlin2]

The comment on picture resizing was taken onboard...See attached.
So, I attach a picture of one of the better yellow babies with less peppering than most and a better colour overall. Pity only 5 out of 50 like this and even then some peppering (none on parents)
The black background and substrate with good light has many advantages for showing many fish but clearly from comments not for peppered individuals

Mate,

How old is the baby discus in the picture you posted?
How long are the lights left on each day?
What is he feed?
Whats the pH?

Cheers

Sam

[*Chris*]

very intense yellow shame about the peppering
EXAI

[samir]

it'll go. use long hours of bright light and a white background within 3-4 weeks there will be hardly any peppering left .

[GreenDiscus]

Thanks All - Great Feedback.......

The baby pictured is 4-5cm - the other 40odd (apart from 5or6) are unfortunately worse in colour and worse in peppering, which is why I split up the parents as a poor sucess percentage !!

I have transferred my display tank to be a yellow discus growing tank with 40 odd yellow babies from two broods, and it is 100Gall so not easy to empty now to go paler in colour !! I do have a blue discus fish tank with white gravel and pale turquise background which does show them off better. I have a 3rd batch of new babies of 1cm that will go in there soon, so I will see then.....(Yellow/Blue Cross)

The lighting is a good point - currently on about 15hrs per day - my two breeding tanks are lit 24/7 which works well with my breeding techqnique. Proprietry frozen Discus Diet and pretty neutral PH.

I did raise a Yellow Striped Pigeon last year from two Orange striped parents (see attached) !! He may come into my experiments later....

[ozarowana]

Keep the clean fish for yourself these should produce a higher percentage of clean fry themselves etc etc

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum Greendiscus. I'm glad you found us.

You have some lovely yellow discus there. I think you will find that your breeding pair are Yellow Melons. They come down through the pigeon blood breeding, and so will have peppering. Although your breeding pair do not show very much peppering, they probably had siblings with a fair amount of peppering.

The Asian breeders tend to cull the peppered fry, and just grow on the clean fish so we don't see many peppered fish coming in from the importers.

Unfortunately when you breed those clean fish, there will be a high percentage of peppered fry from them. This doesn't affect the health of the fish
but a lot of buyers prefer the cleaner fish.

There is some theory that leaving the lights on constantly for the first three months of their life, fry never learn to pepper, and will always be clean. I really do believe that there is something to this theory. Definately my own red fry show more peppering in a planted tank with a dark substrate, than they do in a brightly lit tank with a bare bottom.

Try that and see how it affects the peppering.