Eggs not fertilised

[DIY]

I let this pair spawn about 15 times in the community tank and the eggs were gobbled up between 12 and 48 hours after laying.

I figured they had gone on long enough in the community tank and it was time to give them their own tank to breed in, I even gave them a cone as well :wink: .

They have promptly spawned 3 more times in this tank bringing the total attempts to about 18 :roll: but still the eggs get eaten.

So this time I caged the eggs to find out if they are even fertilised, the photo was taken last night, and when I checked before work this morning almost all of them had gone white overnight. I don't know exactly when they laid but it was 36 hours since I first noticed them.

My water parameters in the breeding tank are
PH = 7.0
GH < 1
KH = 0.6
Nitrates < 5
Nitrite = 0
Ammonia = 0

I suspect the male is not fertilising the eggs, and the last time I managed to catch the spawning process the female seemed to block his path and gently push him away not letting him in.

I have another female that spawned twice (that I know of) in the community tank, and hasn't since I removed the male. This is interesting because it was hard to pick her "partner" and it looked like the male was pairing with both of them in some sort of spawning love-traingle. :lol: He would spend time with one, and then the other in a sort of time-share arrangement :shock: he spent most of his time with the one I have him with now though.

The next spawn will make about 20 attempts. Surely he should be getting it right by now? I'm thinking of seperating them and giving the male a try with the "other" female from the love-triangle and giving the female a go with a suspected male. My concern is it will just upset all of them and I may not see spawning again!!

Any bright ideas?

[mcloughlin2]

Not sure if you have posted the answer to my question but it is probably best for it to be stated here aswell ...

Are you positive you have a male and female?

How old are your fish?

If your fish are over 14 months, your sure you have a male & female then i recommend you try a different male, or put him with the other girl and see what happens ...

HTH

[DIY]

Thanks for that, I have had them for 13 months and they would have been a couple of months old when I got them.

In terms of male, obviously without wrigglers he's not confirmed, however based on everthing I'm observing and my best attempt at scrutinising the breeding tubes during the spawning process I'm about 80-90% sure he is.

[samir]

try make your tank look like this. you wont need a cage if enough eggs hatch. for that you need to get rid of the canister and check your kh levels for a start. if that doesn't work then have you wormed them ? are they healthy ? increase diet etc. then think of switching them around. if the've paired from a group in a community tank odds are that they are male and female.

[DIY]

try make your tank look like this. you wont need a cage if enough eggs hatch. for that you need to get rid of the canister and check your kh levels for a start. if that doesn't work then have you wormed them ? are they healthy ? increase diet etc. then think of switching them around. if the've paired from a group in a community tank odds are that they are male and female.

Thanks Samir - nice photo editing :D

I'd like to understand the reason behind your changes if you don't mind me asking-

Putting the heater near the cone and laying it down is this to add more warmth near the eggs or something?

Adding in a sponge filter - you may have noticed the canister flows (slowly it's only a small filter and I have slowed it down) from right to left and there is already sponge as part of the divider. will more sponge help in some way?

KH is 0.6 degrees - should it be more? if I add more then the PH will also rise of course.

Yes they naturally paired in the community tank from 12 Discus and they are active, healthy and eat like small horses.

I haven't wormed them though, I don't like to use meds unecessarily but willing to try if it might help!

[samir]

the heater does not need to be near the cone maybe on the wall on the right. if laid down at the bottom it heats more efficiently,still not important. you need the sponge with an airline for biofiltration.
whats important is
1. no water current at all.(i.e no canister)
2. keep the cone and the sponge as far away as possible.
3. get rid of everything else.
4. leave them alone :D

[DIY]

Ok, now I understand - you're thinking water flow is an issue with fertilisation.

I'll have to buy a sponge filter this weekend and put it in to start seeding, seems a shame to not use a good canister (I had it spare) and I'm doubting that it is the problem since it is a very, very gentle flow as it is (I think the airstones create more water movement!). I'm willing to give it a try though. :wink:

I'll buy 2 of them, as I'm thinking I will add a suspected male to the lhs of the divider with the existing female. The "other" female I'll pair up with the existing male on the rhs. Maybe with different partners they will "learn" more :shock:

[samir]

get rid of the airstone just plug one air line into the sponge. imo a canister is fine as long as its turned off LOL :D with very still water you will get some wrigglers (maybe 6-10) even if the male does not go over the eggs properly.

[dachoo]

I just saw your breeding tank photo & notice your cage for the cone has an openning on the top, looking at the water level. If she very protective, there a possible she will try to get to her eggs from the top.

David