Discus has gone crazy, (UPDATE, shes starting to recover!)

[Nathan]

ive been away this week, an the female of my breeding pair has gotten quite sick, we worked it out havn flukes, so weve been treating her with a paricide, theres been a big improvment however she keeps going completely nuts, water all over the floor an has even moved the heater.

shes got dorsal fin damaga, i havnt had the lights on all week, there is light in the room just not the tank light.

ph 6.8
ammo 0
nitrites/nitrates 0
temp 29-30

is there anything else i can do, its making me sooo worried an i just want her to be better again. im really scared that she'll end up killing herself, the medication has made an improvment.

please help

[samir]

what medication are you using ???

[Nathan]

its aqua master para-cide used for controlling external parasites such as body an gill flukes, it contains trichlorfon, im not sure what it is but it may help you guys recognise the medication.

i have some prazi would that be better?

[Dee]

Hi Nathan,

Sorry to hear about the troubles you are having mate :(

A couple of questions ---

1. What symptoms was the fish showing BEFORE medication ?

2. Was the fish freaking out prior to medication or only after ?

3. What exact medication are you using ? Please list active ingredients.

4. How was this tank cycled ?

5. Where any WC's done whilst you where away ?

You also mentioned in your post that your water specs show no nitrItes and no NitrAtes. A properly cycled tank will show some reading for nitrAtes, even if it is low. Can you please recheck your water specs and post?


From the limited info provided I would say these things come to mind -

1. There is a water quality issue.

2. It's and adverse reaction to the meds used. Some meds are more potent/toxic at varying water specs ... ie temp and GH/KH.

3. Serious external infection of some sort.

With out knowing the symptoms prior to medications it's a hard call. Discus, from my experience, mainly react like that when waters specs are out of wack, if there is toxins in the water or have serious external probs.

Please let us know the above questions and hopefully one of us will be able to help :)

All the best with getting her back on track mate.

Cheers,

Dee.

[Dee]

its aqua master para-cide used for controlling external parasites such as body an gill flukes, it contains trichlorfon, im not sure what it is but it may help you guys recognise the medication.

i have some prazi would that be better?

Hi Nathan,

From memory Trichlorfon is most effective @25c. I think Trichlorfon is more toxic or unstable at higher temps. This may be making the fish jumpy, how long have you been treating with Para-cide ?

cheers,

Dee.

[nicholas76]

Nathan,

just checking your not treating it in your big planted tank are you?


also how did you diagnose it?? smells like LFS diagnosis

[Nathan]

i wasnt there so im not 100% sure what the symptons were, so mum did go to the LFS for help. but as far as i know

she was lying on her side
clamped a bit
thats all i know

the fish were freakin out a bit before but not like this, theyd just get a bit of a fright but that was it

the active ingrediant is trichlorfon, doesnt say what else is in it

i made sure the tank was completely cycled, i used amtrite down (a bacterial additive) also had fish in there, also added a mature HOB filter, an did weekly w/c with mature water. i added the discus after about 5 weeks from when i started cycling the tank.

there was one done an then mum started medicating them an said not to do wc whilst using this medicene.

ill check the nitrites an nitrates tomorrow for u.

no nick its my BB tank, ive been pretty lucky with the planted tank ive never had any problems, except now my bloody powerhead broke while i was away for the co2 so the plants arent lookin great, o well im more concerned about the female.

as i said i wasnt here so mum went to the LFS with the symptons, she doesnt kno a whole lot about fish but i gotta love her she looked after all the w/c an things whilst i was away.

anyway ill post the exact water specs tomorrow, however i dont have a gh/kh test kit.

thanx again for your help

[samir]

i suggest getting the medication out of the water, clamped and lying on side is imo a water issue. how did you come up with the flukes diagnosis ? were they rubbing against stuff ? i'd do an immediate 50% water change and filter with activated charcoal to hopefully get whatever's bugging it out of the water.

[Nathan]

yea the female constantly scratched up against stuff, shes even got cuts from doing so.

is activated charcoal same as activated carbon?

[samir]

yes. its better to use prazi for flukes.

[Nathan]

i do have prazi, so tomorrow should i do a 50% w/c an get a bag of carbon, an add the prazi? or wait a couple days to see how they get on an if no improvement add the prazi?

[Dee]

Hello Nathan,

I'm with Samir on this one mate, I would do a large water change with fresh clean water the same (close) specs as the current tank water. My call would be the Trichlorfon is wigging the female out.

As for the cycling, hard to say ... but if you are not getting a nitrAte reading, i'd say the tank is not 'completely cycled.

So I would get your water fresh and clean (no meds etc) and make sure your filters are cycled fully, then go from there. Hopefully after a few days she will settle down again. Keep up the water changes for now ... minimum 30% every 2nd day.

Keep us posted mate.

Cheers,

Dee :)

[samir]

maybe let them recover first. do daily water changes till they improve ,a little salt and a uv sterilizer will control the flukes for a bit.

[Nathan]

thanx for that, first thing tomorrow ill be doing a big w/c grab a bag of carbon, post accurate water specs, an hopefully try an relax a little.

thanx for that guys, especially at such early hours of the morning!

[nicholas76]

carbon = biozorb :wink:

[Nathan]

i have a uv sterliser in the tank, are u able to get biozorb from LFS or just APW?

[sammigold]

You working for these guys now Nick? ^ LOL

[nicholas76]

Lol

Sammi ive just never had my tank looking so clean before.
Charcoal filtration is awsum.

APW have it cheaper than the LFS. Whilts your at it, get a nitro zorb pack too

[Nathan]

well my LFS didnt have it so i just got some acitvated carbon, i made an order from APW a couple nights ago an ordered the nita zorb.

anyway heres an update, my water params are

ph 6.8
ammo 0
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 1-2.0 ppm
temp 29-30

i did a big 50% w/c this morning an added the carbon to my HOB filter an also added salt, they seem to be more calm an she hasnt freaked out yet.

ill keep you all posted though

[Nathan]

well i did a the water change yesterday an added the carbon, this mroning i fed them an its the first time in a week she has eaten anything an also the first time ive been able to have a good look at her, shes not looking to good.

to me it looks like thermal shock but im not sure how this is possible because the water i put in was exactly the same temp.

this is only on the one side of her, can anyone help?

[nicholas76]

is that a photo glitch fish seem black towards the tail?

PH sock or thermal temp shock are my guesses

[Nathan]

no theres no glitch, i thought the same it maybe thermal shock but what from, i havnt done any cold W/C or anything like that.

how do u fix this?

[Dee]

Hello Nathan,

First up, it's good to hear she is eating ... means she is feeling better :)

That does look like thermal shock, but if you say there has been no change in temp it can't be that. I have also read that this discolouration can happen after the fish gives it self a hard knock, could be that. A shot in the dark would be that it's a side effect of the Trichlofon maybe ... :ug

Either way in most cases the discolouration will sort it self out within 7 days (this is what i have read in the past).

For now I would keep up with the regular WC's, daily if possible and feed lightly for now. Hopefully it will all sort it self out after a few days of nice clean water and some food.

Remember to change/remove the carbon in a few days time too !

Best of luck mate and keep us posted on how she go's !

Cheers,

Dee.

[Nathan]

ill do that, an good thing u reminded me about the carbon i would have forgotten, thanx for the help, ill keep u posted each day.

[nicholas76]

Carbon should have a life of about 2 weeks.


the bio zorb products will last you 8 weeks plus

[WinnY]

Hi Nathan,

It's sad to read these kind of news... :cry:

I truly hope she recovers.

Good luck mate.

[Nathan]

thanx winny, i apreciate it, an i hope she pulls through aswel, its my first breeding pair an shes it makes me feel so worried, but i do feel a bit better that shes startin to recover, i think worst of it is over (i hope!)

[Nathan]

update, they seem a bit more active, however the black mark on the end of the females body seems to be a lot darker, the mark hasnt grown though

[Nathan]

another update, now the male seems to be lookn a bit crook, ill keep an eye on him, the female is eating (she has a very sunken tummy from not eating) but the black mark is still very prominant.

i havnt been able to do any w/c the past couple days as my hot water service died an i got it replaced today so ill do one a bit later.

anyway does anyone have any suggestions for the meantime?

[Dee]

i havnt been able to do any w/c the past couple days as my hot water service died an i got it replaced today so ill do one a bit later.


G'day Nathan,

Can you please post your WC'ing process ? Sounds like your using hot water/cold water mixed by the sounds of you last post. Let us know mate.

Cheers,

Dee.

[Nathan]

yea i siphon the water out, then go fill up a container with hot/cold water mix it through add prime let it sit for 5-10 mins then siphon the water into the tank using a pipe to ensure theres not a whole lot of current.

but i bought a container (food grade plastic) which im runnin an airstone an small heater in, then ill siphon the water from the container into the tank, i think this will be better for the discus?

[nicholas76]

Dibs on it being a PH shock

[Dee]

but i bought a container (food grade plastic) which im runnin an airstone an small heater in, then ill siphon the water from the container into the tank, i think this will be better for the discus?

Heya Nathan,

Yeah IMO it's alot better to store the water and heat and airate for 24 hours minimum mate. I have always been a bit suss on using water from a hot water system. It may be ok with other fish, but with discus being as sensative as they can be, it is better to store and heat cold water with a heater ... JMHO mate :)

HTH

Cheers,

Dee.

[Nathan]

yea ill be doin it that way from now on. but the big question is is there anything i can do to help them recover?

[Dee]

Hi Nathan,

Yes, you can keep up the WC's with fresh clean water (heated/airated for min 24 hours), hopefully in due time they will get back on thier feet. That is what I would do mate, just clean water and good food for now ... no more meds IMO.

Cheers,

Dee.

[Nathan]

well i have been treating them with sterazin (advised by SLS) an this morning was the second dose, an there has been major improvments, they still arent 100% but 10 times better then what they have been, i think there craving some big W/C but i really want to run the whole course of this med as it is working, but after that theyl get as many W/C as they like!

anyway just really really wanted to thank everyone for there help an time especially Discus D an Nicholas76 i really apreciate the effort an knowledge you guys so thanx, an a big thanx to other DF members that contributed to this thread i owe you all!

[Nathan]

well i have been treating them with sterazin (advised by SLS) an this morning was the second dose, an there has been major improvments, they still arent 100% but 10 times better then what they have been, i think there craving some big W/C but i really want to run the whole course of this med as it is working, but after that theyl get as many W/C as they like!

anyway just really really wanted to thank everyone for there help an time especially Discus D an Nicholas76 i really apreciate the effort an knowledge you guys so thanx, an a big thanx to other DF members that contributed to this thread i owe you all!

[Dee]

well i have been treating them with sterazin (advised by SLS) an this morning was the second dose, an there has been major improvments, they still arent 100% but 10 times better then what they have been, i think there craving some big W/C but i really want to run the whole course of this med as it is working, but after that theyl get as many W/C as they like!

anyway just really really wanted to thank everyone for there help an time especially Discus D an Nicholas76 i really apreciate the effort an knowledge you guys so thanx, an a big thanx to other DF members that contributed to this thread i owe you all!

Heya Nathan,

That's great news mate, glad to hear they are improving !

No need to thank me mate, I have been in the same position in the past and with the help of forum members managed to get my fish back on their feet. Just glad to hear they are doing alot better ... keep up the good work and keep us posted!

Cheers,

Dee.

[Nathan]

well you know how worrying these bloody fish can make u, especially ones you paid an arm an a leg for, so yea again thanx guys an ill continue to keep you all posted.

however unfortunately it looks like the black mark on the female maybe permanant, not sure we'll have to see what happens i hope not, but id preffer her to have the black mark then be dead!

hopefully daily W/C an quality feedings will help get rid of the mark. buther colours are quite nice today they havnt been like this for some weeks an yes she IS eating!

[Dee]

Hiya Nathan,

How's the pair going mate ? All is well I hope :)

Cheers,

Dee :)

[*Chris*]

like dee siad early on mate the black color could be from a pinched nerve caused by the smacking about can take upto a yr to sort itself out but usually when the fish grows a bit the nerve straitens itself out
suprising enough when i worked at AI sometimes whole shipments came in with half black faces and fins and sections of there bodies at first look we thought it was maybe internal ulcers or maybe even tumours but them realised it was them being knocked or dropped while in transport , sometimes resulting in the culling of whole shipments

[Nathan]

oh ok thanx for that EX, oh by the way i hope your happy with the catolougue mate!

well shes eating an swimming around nicely, on thursday is the end of the sterazin treatment so ill be doin a big waterchange an yea so i think theyl be fine, thanx for that though

[Dee]

well shes eating an swimming around nicely, on thursday is the end of the sterazin treatment so ill be doin a big waterchange an yea so i think theyl be fine, thanx for that though

Good to hear they are on the up and up Nathan, you have done a great job with sorting them out mate :thumb I would say the black markings will fade with time. Just lots of fresh clean water and good feedings and they will be fine by the sounds of it.

Cheers,

Dee. :D