Ultraviolet Light Systems

[Proteus]

After trolling through many articles and spec's I can only find the difference being the actual naming of the two units.

I used the Philips TUV PL-S lamp as my test object, and it is found in both types of units...

I read articles on both types of UV units, and both summarised doing the same thing...

A UVC & UVS will:-

* Help protect fish against disease

* Cleans the aquarium/pond without using any chemicals

* Clarifies the water

* Controls moulds, bacteria and algae

* Kills Pathogens, parasites and germs


Disinfection of water using ultraviolet light (UV) is a proven technology. This safe and effective physical disinfectant is suitable for both large and small applications. Ultraviolet light, better known as UV, is one energy region of the electromagnetic spectrum. In this spectrum UV lies between visible light and X-rays. The shorter the wavelength the greater the energy produced, therefore UV has less energy than the X-ray region and more than visible light. The UV region is made up of four areas, Vacuum UV, UV C, UV B, and UV A. The UV A region is used for sun tanning lamps. UV B and UV C are the regions that contain the wavelengths effective for germicidal action. Wavelengths most effective in killing microbes lie below 300nm. Those most effective in producing ozone lie below 200nm. In most cases, we are interested in killing microbes, not in producing ozone, so we are concerned primarily with wavelengths between 200 and 300nm. Ultraviolet lamps and fluorescent lamps are similar in design. UV light is emitted as a result of current flow through the mercury vapor between the electrodes of the lamp. The most commonly use UV lamps produce the majority of their UV output at 253.7nm, a wavelength which is very close to the 260 - 265nm wavelengths which are most effective in killing microbes. The main differences between germicidal and fluorescent lamps are the germicidal lamp is constructed of UV transmitting quarts, whereas the fluorescent lamp has soft glass with an inside coating of phosphor which converts UV to visible light, the quartz tube transmits 93% of the lamps UV energy whereas the soft glass emits very little.

If there is someone who knows more technical information regarding this, please enlighten us all...

[DeKa]

Proteus,

My technical documentation about Hozelock Cyprio UVC's provides similar information to what you've already given.

Philips PL-S TUV (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/categories.asp?cID=17) lamps found at the bottom of the page linked emit (according to my specs) 87% of the UV energy produced by the lamp (close to your 93% - could depend upon who's measuring ie manufacturer/end user?). Philips PL-S TUV lamps are made in Poland using quartz glass, and emit up to 30% more radiation than "conventional double ended fluorescent lamps" purely because they are single ended so radiation is emitted out the end of the lamp.

I know this information isn't particularly ground breaking in the light of your post, but it does provide confirmation that what you've found in your research is in fact correct.

We carry the 5W, 9W and 11W lamps - plenty in stock at great prices.
Derek :cool:

[Proteus]

...now I have to do some research as I have been offered a 36w UVS at a price that is hard to refuse... (got to check if it is the real deal 1st)

[flukes]

Can i just sort this about steriliers and clarifiers.

So a clarifier will mainly clump together algea? Will this in anyway remove bacteria or pathogens? Also will this remove the algea or will you have to open up the unit too remove it.

And last instead do these series of pond pumps come with Steriliers??

Thanks for the help,
Very informative.

[DeKa]

And last instead do these series of pond pumps come with Steriliers??

Thanks for the help,
Very informative.

All the UV products we sell are UVC's not UVS's. Pumps don't come with UVS' (although Hozelock has a soon to be released combined pump/filter/UVC unit which I have seen - shhhh don't tell anyone) but you can get filters with combined UVC's.

Derek 8)

[Proteus]

Thought I might dig this back up.

After doing a lot more research, and having just added another 36w UV unit to my setup I thought I would share some info.

If you are using a high quality tube, such as the Philips brand, there is no difference between a UVC & a UVS unit. So long as they are a TUV type tube.


TUV disinfection lamps are low-pressure mercury-vapour
discharge lamps consisting of a tubular glass envelope, emitting
short-wave ultraviolet radiation with a radiation peak at 253.7 nm
(UV-C) for germicidal action.
The glass filters out the 185 nm ozone-forming line.A protective
coating on the inside limits the depreciation of the useful UV-C
radiation output (Longlife lamps).
PL-S have a specially adapted starter providing almost instant
starting characteristics already built into the lamp base.


Applications

TUV lamps are used for killing or inactivating bacteria, viruses
and other primitive organisms.
Typical application examples include air, water and surface
disinfection in hospitals, bacteriological research and
pharmaceutical institutions, and food processing industries,
such as dairies, breweries and bakeries.They are also used for
the disinfection of drinking water, waste water, swimming pools,
air conditioning systems, cold storage rooms, packing
material, etc.
Finally, they are applied in a variety of photochemical processes.


Radiation of these lamps is harmful to eyes and skin.
Installations with these lamps are to be screened off completely.

FYI, the average high quality UV tube will last approx 8000 hours, with it losing between 15-30% after 5000 hours (the higher the tube wattage, the lower the percentage of loss)

[kenkun88]

where can we get the phillips TUV bulbs from?

[chrissyoscar]

I got my a Phillips PL-S 9w from them for less than $23.
They are located in Hawthorn, Melbourne and
NSW Northmead
www.gmtlighting.com.au

Hope they can help... Oscar

[fishgeek]

the answer you guys have been searching for is that the bulbs in both clarifiers and sterilisers is the same - hence the above suggestions that they are the same thing

the difference is really in the name's definitions

sterilisers will sterilise(well not quite) to do this the uv light emitted by the bulb must have a longer contact time with the water , hence the internal void enginereed around the uv lamp must be narrower , also the water can not be pumped above a certain speed(larger systems will require multiple bulbs in plumbed in parallel )

clarifiers have less contact time and hence only claim to reduce the numbers of more easily damaged cells , usually the green water encounterd in ponds

HTH
andrew

[DeKa]

where can we get the phillips TUV bulbs from?

Ken,
You'll find them here: http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/categories.asp?cID=61
Available immediately, with next day delivery if necessary, or 2-3 day Australia Post delivery if you want to save $5.

Derek.

[Telperion]

could someone please tell me physically how UV sterilizers hook into an aquarium system? pictures are very very very much welcomed!!!

[mystic_beth]

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1091.htm

I am thinking of this for my AR980.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of UV?

Cheers

[taksan]

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1091.htm

I am thinking of this for my AR980.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of UV?

Cheers


Yeah they block up really quick ... run a eheim 2217 Cannister with a 36w pondmaster UV on it AS WELL as your AR980 filter.

[DeKa]

Just a quick addition to this thread - as with everything these days, cheaper Chinese imitation product is taking over the market. We've sourced some good quality UV bulbs made in China, but around half the price of the European made Philips lamps:
TUV Lamps for UVC, Germicidal & Sterilisation (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/categories.asp?cID=61)

[Proteus]

Just a quick addition to this thread - as with everything these days, cheaper Chinese imitation product is taking over the market. We've sourced some good quality UV bulbs made in China, but around half the price of the European made Philips lamps:
TUV Lamps for UVC, Germicidal & Sterilisation (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/categories.asp?cID=61)

Hey there Derek, long time no see...

They are certainly good prices for the TUV lamps

[diamonddiscus08]

Hello, I was wondering what is the best lighting I can get for the money? In addition, what type of ballist would I need or not need?

[Merrilyn]

Hi diamonddiscus.

I think there may be a bit of confusion here.

A UV light (ultra violet) isn't used to illuminate the tank. For that you need a different type of globe altogether, housed in a hood or unit that sits on the top of the tank.

An Ultra Violet light is housed in a tube of some kind, with water being pumped in one end, being exposed to the UV light, and then passing out the other end, after the bacteria and pathogens have been killed.

It's used to clean the water and prevent disease outbreak.

HTH

[tanzy]

Do UV's effect any of the good bacteria in the tank and do they effect plants in any adverse way? Do you run them 24/7? I thought I knew the answers to these questions but after further reading That is very conflicting, I have become a bit confused.


Cheers

Kell

[ILLUSN]

uv's will kill all bacteria that pass over the buld, good and bad, leave your uv swiched off while your tank cycles.

once cycled, the bulk of the good bacteria are in the filter and hence safe from your uv, for the uv to be effective it has to run 24/7

[corey]

i own a turbotwist i can honestly say my water is clearer and fish have no parasites ever even with introducing a new fish with ick i can treat without spreading

[purplefishtail]

Anyone have any advice on how often to switch out UV bulbs? Most sources I've read say 6 months with a smattering of anywhere from 3 months up to 1 year suggestions. Any thoughts?

I'm running one of these btw: http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/newproducts3.cfm?id=18

[jimmyg]

I have been told by a couple of peopl they can last past a year but replace every 12 months, but I guess cheaper ones wouldn't last as long as the dearer ones.

I am using a Laguna UV. See link http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/uv/pclearmaxuv2000.php?link=174

[Hassles]

I am hoping that between those here with some experience using UV filters that you may be able to answer my question. What UV filters are easily cleanable ? I ask this as I have used some that will not come apart (other than to change the bulb) so I cannot clean the tube thereby ensuring the light intensity / exposure remains constant.

thanks

[ILLUSN]

What are peoples opinions on the new generation of UV sterilizers? The ones that use germicidal ozone generating grade lamps? Aqua ultraviolet, pentair, emporer are brands that come to mind.

The tech data on these units is better then it has ever been clearly stating on each unit the output in uw(s)/cm2 (microwatt seconds/ square centimeter) at various flowrates (some even end of life ratings on the bulbs).

Still I'm a little dissapointed that most seem to maxout at ~90000. My understanding is that larger protozoa will tollerate irradiation at up to 200000.

I'm aware that the benchmark is whitespot with has 99.99% kill rate at 45000, but what is the opinion of people here as to a reasonable output for UV to be concidered effective?

[pb]

I read this and thought it may be of some use.

The first you have to remember is that not all organisms are killed by the same amount of UV; it all depends on the dose rate of UV passing through the water.

To start with, here are the things we need to know to effectively size a UV sterilizer -

1. The organism (or range of organisms) you want to kill or prevent from getting a foothold in your tank.

2. The size of the body of water/tank you have

3. The flow you have in that tank

For example if you had a 4000 liter pond, and a flow rate in that pond of 4000LPH (or more it doesn’t really matter), you would only need to size the UV sterilizer to and Algae and Bacterial flow rate of 30,000 Microwatts and only pass the volume of the pond through the UV over a 4-6 hour period, meaning that you would need a flow rate of between 700 - 1000LPH on a by-pass to the main flow of water.

This would result in around an 18 watt UV sterilizer sized at 30,000 microwatts.

As Algae generally reproduces every 4-6 hours, passing the entire volume of the pond through the UV faster then this will eventually stop the life cycle of the algae and prevent it from growing. Obviously passing more water through a larger UV will get the job done quicker.

The second application is sizing the UV to the aquarium size, generally this size should be calculated by taking the recommended flow of the UV sterilizer at algae and bacterial flow rates and dividing the flow by three (three times per hour turnover rate). Then if you have a higher turnover rate but do not want to size the UV to the flow rate you can just stick to the recommend flow rate and Aquarium size.

Then as a different application say you had a very large tank, Retail tank system, quarantine system etc and you wanted a higher rate of sterilization. You would first find the flow rate of your system, say this was 6000 liters per hour; there are two ways to know size your UV sterilizer in this application.

The first is Bacterial and Algae treatment (at 30,000 microwatts) and will generally kill most types of bacteria and algae. You would pass all of the water through the UV and therefore at a bacterial and algal treatment rate for a flow rate of 6000 LPH the system would require a 50 watt UV sterilizer. By passing all the water through the UV sterilizer from the pump you make sure that all the water going back to tank has been treated by the UV.

Now in most cases I would recommend sizing a UV to the protozoal treatment rate (90,000 microwatts - 3 times bigger) for these sorts of applications.

So if it were the same application as above you would be looking to size a UV between a 120 watt and 150 watt UV.

Now you must keep in mind that not all UV sterilizers are created equal. For instance the Emperor Aquatics UV sterilizers are based on a standard 30,000 microwatt bulb and the flow rates are based on 80% transmissibility through the water (green water/algae and particulate laden water) and a 60% bulb life which is end of bulb life, so when you size a UV you know that you will get that level of sterilization out of the UV even when the bulb is close to the end of its life after 9000 hours continuous operation.

However some bulbs, in fact a vast majority of them are only sized on a 15,000 microwatt bulb, making comparing UV models harder. For instance an 8 watt UV with a 15,000 microwatt bulb is only half as effective an 8 watt UV with a 30,000 microwatt bulb because the dose rate of UV through the water is only half that in 15,000 MW UV.

So in conclusion the effectiveness of a UV depends on:
- The wattage
- The dose rate of UV light in Micro-watts per second per square centimeter (uWS/cm2)
- The flow rate or contact time inside the UV chamber in relation to the two above factors

Several other factors effect the value and effectiveness of the UV such as the way the bulbs are sized (end of bulb life or new bulb), the transmissibility through the water (sized on particulate laden - 80% transmissibility or clear water) and the overall design of the UV itself for instance emperor UV units have the bulb positioned between the inlet and outlet and not beyond these points, so that the water passing through the unit is exposed to the entire length of the UV bulb.

For disease control if you can afford it, go with at least a UV sized to 30,000 MW that will handle the entire flow rate from your return pump. for even better disease control upgrade to a UV that will handle all the flow from your return pump that has an output dose rate of 90,000 MW.

Below is a table that details some different organisms and the relative dose rate of UV needed to kill them/inactivate them.

Microorganism UV Dosage (µW sec/cm2)
Bacteria:
Aeromonas salmonicida 3,620
Bacillus subtilus (vegatative) 11,000
Bacillus subtilus spores 22,000
Bacillus megaterium (vegatative) 2,500
Bacillus megaterium spores 52,000
Bacillus anthracis 8,700
Bacillus paratyphi 6,100
Campylobacter jejuni 4,600
Clostridium tetani 22,000
Corynebacterium diptheriae 6,500
Eberthella typhosa 4,100
Enyerococcus faecalis 10,000
Escherichia coli 6,600
Lactococcus lactis 8,800
Legionella bozemanii 3,500
Legionella dumoffi 5,500
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires' disease) 3,800
Legionella gormanii 4,900
Legionella longbeachae 2,900
Legionella micdadai 3,100
Leptospira interrogans 6,000
Mycobacterium tuberculosis 10,000
Neisseria catarrhalis 8,500
Proteus vulgaris 6,600
Pseudomonas aeruginosa 3,900
Rhodospirillum rubrum 6,200
Salmonella 10,000
Salmonella enteritidis 7,600
Salmonella paratyphi (enteric fever) 6,100
Salmonella typhimurium 15,200
Salmonella typhosa (typhoid fever) 7,000
Serratia marcescens 6,200
Shigelia dysenteriae 4,200
Shigelia flexneri 3,400
Shigelia sonnei 7,000
Staphylococcus opidermidis 5,800
Staphylococcus aureus 7,000
Staphylococcus hemolyticus 5,500
Staphylococcus lactis 8,800
Staphylococcus viridans 3,800
Vibrio cholerae 6,500

Algae:
Chlorella vulgaris 22,000

Virus:
Channel Catfish Virus (CCV) 20,000
Chum Salmon Virus (CSV) 100,000
Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis Virus (CHAB) 20,000
Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis Virus (RTTO) 30,000
Infectious Pancreatic Necrosis Virus (Buhl) 150,000
Oncorhynchus masou virus 20,000
Bacterilophage 6,600
Hepatitis 6,600
Influenza 6,600
Poliovirus 21,000
Rotavirus 24,000
Tobacco mosaic virus 440,000

Fungi:
Saprolegnia hyphae 10,000
Saprolegnia zoospores 39,600

Mold Spores:
Aspergillus flavus 99,000
Aspergillus glaucus 88,000
Aspergillus niger 330,000
Mucor sp. 35,200
Penicillium sp. 88,000
Penicillium expensum 22,000
Penicillium roqueforti 26,400
Rhizopus sp. 220,000

Protozoa:
Phytomonas tumefaciens 8,500
Paramecium 220,000
Icthyophthirius sp. (tomite) 336,000
Cryptocaryon irritans (white spot disease) 300,000
Cryptosporidium parvum 7,900
Sarcine lutea 26,400
Ceratomyxa shasta 30,000
Costia necatrix 318,000
Myxosoma cerebralis 35,000
Trichodina sp. 35,000
Trichodina nigra 159,000

Pb 8-)

[taithelles]

The system can be used with ultraviolet radiation in combination with activated carbon filters or RO to remove the minerals and particles which may shield microorganisms from UV radiation.

[syxx]

Thanks for that pb, helps a lot

[ILLUSN]

Awesome info!!!

as i keep telling people here aim for 90000uW as a minimum its what you need to keep on top of infections that get to discus.

also remember that your discus tank has transmission rates >95% (super clean clear water) so you can usually get away a slightly smaller UV then those calculated at 80% transmission (ie green water as found in ponds).

[DeKa]

It's been a long time since I've posted here, but 'domestic' Ultra Violet Clarifiers (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/ponds/water-clarification-uvc/ultra-violet-clarifier.html) have come a long way in nearly seven years, and prices have dropped dramatically!

The latest models are stainless steel, because this provides up to 35% more UV efficiency from the electrolytically polished reflective stainless steel barrel interior over non-reflective black plastic UVC models.

The Jebao STU-75W UVC (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/ponds/water-clarification-uvc/ultra-violet-clarifier/jebao-75w-uv-c-tech-75-000-stu-75w.html) is the first such model available.
http://www.jebao.com/en/displayproduct.html?proID=101289878

[Merrilyn]

Good to have you posting again DeKa.

I'm in the market for a top of the line UV for a 300 litre tank. What would you recommend?

[ILLUSN]

DeKa do the new Jebo's have thier output stated on the units? I'm also looking for a UV for a 1000L tank with a flow rate of 1100l/h I want a UV dosage of atleast 90000uw

[Hooked]

Hi guys,
I'd appreciate if anyone has any recent experience/advice with the current units on the market. I'm after two units. One for a 400lt grow out tank that has two Eheim 2217's on it that are "rated" max flow of 1000lt/hr each.
Also a unit for an 1150 litre tank that has two Eheim 2080's on it that are rated max flow of 1700lt/hr each. (Both tanks spray bar holes are drilled out to reduce the velocity of the outlet flow )
I've had bacterial problems (fish were peppering and losing condition) that had not been helped (were mainly caused by) by overfeeding a little. I've got a better handle on that now and both tanks are doing much better.
The stainless bodied units seem to be a good idea.
I appreciate that the water needs time to dwell/be treated by the UV and am concerned I may have too much flow for a unit suited to the capacity of the tank? Or rather I need to buy a unit suited/sized to the flow rather than the capacity of the tank in this case?
If someone could please explain the 90000uw minimum that Illusn was good enough to recommend, would be great.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Cheers

[ILLUSN]

Hooked, you need to use real world flow not max flow eheim 2217 = 600l/h 2080 = 1200l/h

no manufacturer will tell you this you need to get a bucket and calculater.

have a read through Pb's post 7 posts above its all the data you need, remember UV exposure time is dictated by how much water flows over the bulb not on how big the tank is.

[Hooked]

Hi Illusn,
Yep, understand the flow variation. I just put up the max as was all that was on the unit. Thats why I put it in "inverted" commars. I'm aware its never what you end up with after filling with media, hose length etc.
Just wondered if anyone had any updated info or recommendations mainly on units. But thanks for letting me know probably around 600 and 1200.
You are usually so good at explaining the more technical areas that I thought you may be able to shed some more light (pardon the pun) on the part that I obviously must have missed. I'll read it again,

Edit: Jothy, its the uw part I would really appreciate if you could explain. I understand its a unit of measurement and very important to have at least 90000. Just, I cant seem to find the exact clear meaning here. I'll jump on Google later also when home.


Thanks for your help,

Cheers

[Hooked]

uw = microwatt, got it,

Cheers

[DeKa]

Good to have you posting again DeKa.

I'm in the market for a top of the line UV for a 300 litre tank. What would you recommend?

Hi Merrilyn,
The general rule of thumb is to sterilise, you need to pass the water by the UV lamp at 1/4 the rate for UV Clarification. This means slower than pb's suggestion of 1/3 the rate. Based on the specs of the Aqua Nova 18W UVC (http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/ponds/water-clarification-uvc/ultra-violet-clarifier/aqua-nova-18w-uvc-nuv-18.html) this means you need water passing the UV lamp at 750L/hr rather than the UV Clarification recommended rate of 2500L/hr.

What this means is you need to calculate your pump's flow rate (which should be pretty close to the actual rated flow for an aquarium as there's only drag from the tubing, no actual lift) and then determine the right UV unit to use.

One other thing to note is the cheaper Aqua Nova models don't have a turbolator so the water doesn't get as much dwell time.


DeKa do the new Jebo's have thier output stated on the units? I'm also looking for a UV for a 1000L tank with a flow rate of 1100l/h I want a UV dosage of atleast 90000uw

What do you mean, 'stated output'? Yes, the large one is 75w output, just like a car engine may be rated at 150kw output.

I think you need to provide some clarification (no pun!) on this 'microwatts' term. You can't dose something unless you say how many units per quality e.g. millilitres per kilogram (for liquid medication as an example.) I suspect what is being discussed is probably something like microwatts per millilitre per second.

You'll need to confirm this understanding before any of us go any further.

[ILLUSN]

no worries DeKa I will try and clarify. Hooked this is the simpliest way i think i can try and explain UV sterilization.

The germicidal output of UVC is measured in micro watts (uW). Diffrent organisums have diffrent lethal dose (LD) mostly determained by the size of the organisum and the material that consitutes its outer cell wall. UV light must penetrate the outer wall of the organisum and destroy NOT JUST MUTATE the DNA within the cell/virus/nucleus.

The output of any given UV bulb should be measured in microwatts per second per square cm.

What this means is that a given bulb will emmit X ammount of radiation in 1 second across 1 square centimeter.

PB was nice enough to list the effective kill dose for various organisums if you look through his post you'll see small vegitative (activly dividing) bacterial cells have a lthal dose of 3000-10000uw/cm2/second. Bacterial spores and algae 25000-50000
naked viruses 20000- bigger/enveloped viruses 400000 and so on.

Newer generation germicidal UVC tubes that are either ionizing (ozone generating) or non ionizing are being used in the higher end units, these are they same type of tubes I use in my lab for fragmenting DNA prior to PCR work.

The effective output of such bulbs varies due to specific the test conditions. e.g Emporer aquatics test the out put of their bulbs at 1.5 inches from the bulb (housing is 3 inches in diameter) and uses this value of uw/sec/cm2 to calculate flowrate for a 30000 uw/s/cm2 dosage. in addition they assume a transmittance rate of 80% (green water), ie 20% loss in output through water.

From my understanding Aqualtraviolet measure their output at 1 inch from the bulb (housing size is 2 inches in diameter) and assume a 99%? transmittance through water and base their dosage tables on this data.

both manufactures use almost the same bulb so watt for watt they are almost equivilant but diffrent specifications on the units (diameter and hence "depth" of water, + assumed transmittance rates) give the 2 companys very diffrent usable ranges.

In a discus tank the water is never green its always super clear so i believe its safe to assume a transmittance rate of atleast 90%.

my question to you DeKa is

Do you have a stainless steel unit that will give me a uv dosage of 90000 uw/sec/cm2 at a flow rate of 1100l/h assuming i have a transmittance of 90% -99%?

I think stainless would look very good as I'm building a water cooled stainless LED light and figured i could incorporate the UV unit into it.

sorry for not being more specific.

[Hooked]

Hi Illusn, Hi DeKa,
Illusn, thank you for taking so much of your valuable time to explain that all to me . I can't thank you enough.
My very best regards,

Cheers