CO2 affordable???

[aks]

Lets see a home made recipe for CO2 generation very cheap and works like a charm...


Take a 1 litre glass bottle fill 3/4 with water add little yeast and 1 cup sugar,put an air tight cap that is drilled or holed so that a pipe could go from the cap to the aquarium,make sure evrything is air tight and sealed,place a air controlling pipe so that you can control how much CO2 you want in the aquarium,When the Yeast starts feeding on the Sugar it will give of CO2...

***You can use candle wax as a sealent***

Worked for me and i bilieve you wont be dissapointed with results
GoodLuck !

[Phlipper]

A lot of people are using this system, me included 8-) I have 4 aquariums rigged up with Co2 yeast system now and they are growing amazingly well though my formula is a little different. 8-)

[aks]

woul you like to share your formula?

[Phlipper]

My formula is much the same as yours, the main variation being what i prepare for different size tanks. For my 150 litre tanks I use a mix of 3 cups brown sugar, 1/2 level teaspoon of dry bakers Yeast,1/2 teaspoon of Bi-Carb Soda and 3 cups of luke warm water into a 3 litre container, I use a garden spray pressure bottle with a slight modification to it as a yeast generator. For my 500 litre tank I use two 3 litre pressure packs with double mixes in each bottle. I always use a smaller soda bottle in between the yeast generator and the aquarium just in case any of the mixture bubbles up the tubing and pollutes the tank.

I also use a different method for different sizes of tanks to diffuse the Co2 into the water, for the smaller tanks of 150 litres or less I use a simple clear plastic pipe with a small pump mounted on top, the Co2 is piped into the unit and mixed with the water from the action of the pump.

Se picture of one of my yeast generator bottles, I use this because it is strong, airtight, cheap and new seals are available in most hardware stores.

[Phlipper]

One of my clear piping reactors diffusing Co2 into the tank, there is a small pump mounted simply on top, 200 litres per hour. This particular reator is an old rain guage, but I also use plain tubing ones as well

[Phlipper]

A plain tubing reactor as used on my larger tank

[Phlipper]

On my larger tank I have one of the clear tubing reactors on either end of the tank with a same type of small pump on each reactor. Both bottoms of the reactors are connected by a piece of tubing running the full length of the tank, and the pipe is drilled with numerous small holes to allow the Co2 infused water to exit from the tqank bottom, this gives very close to 100% Co2 diffusion rate 8-)

The picture is not complete, it only shows one reactor tube, but there are actually one on each end of the black perforated tubing.........

[aks]

that looks brilliant man

[Phlipper]

Works a treat 8-)

[OscarManAlpha]

That's the best DIY Co2 system I have seen anywhere on the net....

The tank and fish look really good aswell.

This thread is a gem !!!

Cheers,

Mark

[Phlipper]

Hi Mark, nice to hear from you again 8-) ................I have been mucking around with different set ups quite a bit from your initial good guidance, and the set up I have installed has made a remarkable difference, as you can see. Having the Co2 entering the water column from the bottom of the tank and for the whole length is spot on. The double reactors on each end of the delivery pipe diffuse the Co2 very efficiently { only one end is shown in the picture} and only emits Co2 enriched water from the numerous holes, unless an excess build up of Co2 is produced and then there may be some bubbles rise up. I reckon this system has 99% diffusion rate, virtually no wasted gas :P

I can say in all honesty that my DIY Co2 rig is just as effective as any pressurised system, I just use the cheap and economical Wardleys fertiliser and plants need pruning almost weekly. The tanks have become overgrown :oops: and apart from regular pruning I haven't got the heart to pull them up, thicker the better I say and the fish love it, no illnesses at all and crystal clear water always. 8-)

[aks]

damn man well done what a heavy plantation there...i am totally drooloing :) all over my keyboard tell me how many plants did you started with....and what kinda plants.

***a few more pics will be awesome***

a few more questions man when you started the tank did you need an airstone for oxygen??? as i bilieve plants will be doing that job now and how much light you have put on and how many hours a day?

[Phlipper]

My tanks are either overhead dry/wet trickle systems, all built in, they dont appear to deliver much oxygen to the water, just a few little bubbles but plenty of surface movement.............so to answer your question I have neither applied anymore or less oxygen than the tanks have always had, if that makes sense ?

I have a 3 light set up on all my tanks, 1 x tri-phosphor, 1 x power-glo, 1 x gro-lux...pretty standard lighting really. I have them on usually for 11 hours each day, but I do vary it a bit from time to time. Ad far as plants go, there are at least 15 types I have, but I lose count, most have been there for at least 9 months. I placed quite a lot in all at once from the start and then they grew and I pruned and replanted repeatedly until the present result, the only plants that dont grow very well are the red varieties, I need more lights for that. I have always used a mix of fast growing varieties initially to help keep algae under control until the slower growing varieties take root.

I have different varieties of Swords, Vallis, Wisteria, Ambulia, Telanthera, Ludwigia, Anubias, varieties of Rotala, Star Plants etc etc etc. I'll find some better pix sometime, catch ya. 8-)

[aks]

very informative man and very beautiful aquarium and yes i will love more pics :)

[mtchye]

That is a fantastic idea to use those pressure bottles. The mix you suggest seems to have very little water... wouldn't 3 cups of water not dissolve 3 cups of sugar? Perhaps you mean 3 litres of water (looks like that is the level of water from the pic)? :)

[Phlipper]

No just 3 cups of water is what's needed, the recipe is pretty standard and is what I have always used. There is a large airspace at the top, but no matter because that air space is all Co2 anyway. I believe the idea is to have a very concentrated sugar/yeast/carb-soda mix so dissolving that much sugar into the same quantity of warm water takes a bit of shaking, but it will dissolve. The larger tank has a double mixture in two bottles, so it's 6 cups sugar and the same with water, but the 150 litre tanks have the 3 cup mix as described. Since I took the photos I have been using 3 litre spray packs instead of the 5 litre as they are just that bit smaller and cheaper to buy {$7 from Big W } and i can fit them into my cupboard side by side.............see picture

[Phlipper]

Bit hard to photograph, but you can see one of the reactors on one end of the tank connected to the delivery pipe running along the back of the tank at substrate level, not visible at all from the front.

I'm very pleased with this design, it works wonderfully well, and considering I dont have any special substrate, just gravel, and my lighting is basic I think the results indicate there is an excellent Co2 diffusion rate.
All up for my 6 foot tank the set up has cost me.........$14 for two spray packs // two small gravel vac tubes $12 // poly pipe was $5 and two small 200lph pumps on each of the reactor tops for $20 // TOTAL = $46 approx.

You dont necesarily need the two small pumps as I have, it could be rigged to your main filter or one pump, personally I dont like rigging it to my main filter pump as it restricts some filtering operation. My $10 pumps are plugged into my light timer and turn off along with the lights so an excess of Co2 doesn't build up overnight when it's not being used by the plants, and the Co2 then just bubbles away to oblivian, or somewhere in that region :lol: .................simple :P

[TomNS]

great thread,

So you don't see much in the way of PH swings - I was thinking of an inline valve to switch off when the lights go off - do you find that it is not necessary?

Cheers
Tom

[Nathan]

i think you will find it necessary to 'switch off' (you cant completely stop co2 with yeast based) when the lights are off, i think it may end up stressing out if not killing the fish due to anoxia.

im not a big fan of putting anything inline either, i just think that the cannister filter was made and designed to filter your water not to help operate other little bits an pieces.

also makes things messy IMO an harder to clean out your filter

[ellwa]

i think you will find it necessary to 'switch off' (you cant completely stop co2 with yeast based) when the lights are off, i think it may end up stressing out if not killing the fish due to anoxia.

im not a big fan of putting anything inline either, i just think that the cannister filter was made and designed to filter your water not to help operate other little bits an pieces.

also makes things messy IMO an harder to clean out your filter

I found that while running yeast based CO2 I didn't have any problems with stressed out fish or anything like that.

But going by Amanos method, pump oxygen in at night, and then in the morning, oxygen goes off, CO2 comes on.

[Nathan]

But going by Amanos method, pump oxygen in at night, and then in the morning, oxygen goes off, CO2 comes on.

its basicaly the same as turning it off, either way you are reducing the co2 in the tank.

[Mulisha]

But going by Amanos method, pump oxygen in at night, and then in the morning, oxygen goes off, CO2 comes on.

its basicaly the same as turning it off, either way you are reducing the co2 in the tank.

I'm not 100% certain but if you just shut off the co2 at night that's fine but the plants will be releasing co2 as well so by putting in a air stone will get rid of the excess co2 that the plants are releasing.

[Phlipper]

great thread,

So you don't see much in the way of PH swings - I was thinking of an inline valve to switch off when the lights go off - do you find that it is not necessary?

Cheers
Tom

Hi Tom, you are correct the Co2 should go off at night along with the lights, I did mention it somewhere back in the postings, but never easy to locate a particular instruction.

Dont install any form of cut off switch at all as whenit goes off pressure may build up in the generator and either explode or at least spurt sticky fermenting yeast gunk all over the place :shock:

The way mine is done is with a small 200lph pump attatched to the top of the reactor, I dont like using the tank filter for anything but filtering. The small pump {$10} is in turn plugged into the same timer unit as my lights are, and turns off along with the lights.

Once the small pump turns off the Co2 being bubbled into the reactor is no longer diffused into the water by the pump action and harmlessly bubbles up and away to waste so no big PH swings at night 8-)

I also buffer my water to maintain a KH of around 3 to 4 points using a Sera test kit. You can buy buffering agents of all prices, but I spend about $2 every 2 to 3 weeks. All I use to buffer my water are the cheap " Neutraliser " blocks sold in most supermarket pet sections or from the fish shops. These cheap neutraliser blocks I find are as good as anything and I have tried a few products, they simply add minerals to the water slowly, like carbonates, salts etc etc. Just drop one in and let it dissolve over a few weeks, they are also a general indicator as the acidity of the water, the more acidic the water the quicker they dissolve, so if it only lasts a week or so then the PH may need to be raised slightly initially to give the Neutraliser a good start.

I have been experimenting for quite some time now, and for a large tank I honestly feel this DIY Co2 dosing idea is spot on.....go for it you wont be disappointed :P

[TomNS]

Well I have done it all tonight,

Went out at lunch and bought the bits, the theives at BigW wanted $12 for the sprayer ! That wasn't too bad, made the rest of the bits , the poly along the bottom of the tank, the air line and installed the modified gravel cleaner and the reactor bottle and generator.

So far so good. I assume you don't see a much in the way of bubbles coming out the poly hose in the tank from the design it looks like you want it all dissolved in water by then. Is this correct?

I worry that the pressure required to push the CO2 down the tube into the gravel filter is too much ? I find it a bit tough to blow bubbles down there using the tube like a straw - Am I just over concerned.

With the coke bottle do you have anything in that at all or is it just empty and a place to mix the CO2 with oxygen.

Your threads and advice so far has been fantastic - thanks again - I have to get my camera back from work for the photos of the setup - so far I am just using one pressure back and gravel cleaner - will expand to two after I see some results.

Tom

[Nathan]

the plants dont release enough co2 to bother the fish in my experience.

[Phlipper]

Plants dont actually release the Co2, they release life giving oxygen by absorbing Co2 and through the process of photosyntheseis convert it to oxygen......or something like that.

Tom,
you probably wont see any bubbles coming out of the bottom poly pipe as the Co2 will all, be disolved by the time it gets that far, unless of course the generator is producing an excesive amount then you may see some. This is also an added benefit I guess in as much as you dont have to worry about overdosing your tank, as any Co2 that escapes as noticeable bubbles is not dissolved and escapes to oblivian......or somewhere in that region :lol:

Gravel filter ????.....I take it that you mean the perforated poly pipe the Co2 infused water comes out of running along the back bottom edge of the aquarium ? If this is what you mean then your are partly right, but the Co2 does not get pushed out at the tank bottom, it gets pushed into the syphon tube reactor at a point about 15cm below water level, where it is dissolved by the water from the little pump. It is the water coming from the little pump at the top of the reactor that pushes the Co2 infused water to the tqank bottom and along the perforated polypipe....check out the diagram again.

As far as the little coke bottle goes it is empty, but it would not matter to have a little water in it, I dont as I dont see the point.

Dont expect to see much plant improvement for at least a couple of weeks, it does take time to take effect, this is the same as for pressurised Co2 units as well.

[TomNS]

Gravel filter = syphon tube sorry.

One last thing - how long does a batch of your CO2 producing recipe last ?
If I run with the 6 Cups brown sugar and 3 cups water recipe how long should I expect to get out of it

Tom

[Phlipper]

It's not 6 cups sugar and 3 cups water,...... it's 6 cups sugar, 6 cups dechlorinated warm water, 1 level teaspoon dry yeast, 1 level teaspoon bi-carb soda...all should be measured with proper measuring cups and proper spoon measures because a normal teaspoon is not the same as a proper measuring teaspoon utensil.

Life of the mixture depends on a few things like the ambient temperature, whether the mix is made properly and whether you shake the mix too much from time to time. As a general rule of thumb it should last 2 weeks or even up to 4 weeks, but the quantity of yeast generated gradually weakens from week to week, I replace mine every 2 weeks whether it is needed or not just so I maintain a good amount.

Not sure how much effect you will get from a single generator, I run two with the 6 cup sugar mix on my 550litre tank.

[Nathan]

Plants dont actually release the Co2, they release life giving oxygen by absorbing Co2 and through the process of photosyntheseis convert it to oxygen......or something like that.

thats during the day when lights are on, but at night they do produce co2.

[TomNS]

It's not 6 cups sugar and 3 cups water,...... it's 6 cups sugar, 6 cups dechlorinated warm water, 1 level teaspoon dry yeast, 1 level teaspoon bi-carb soda...all should be measured with proper measuring cups and proper spoon measures because a normal teaspoon is not the same as a proper measuring teaspoon utensil.

Life of the mixture depends on a few things like the ambient temperature, whether the mix is made properly and whether you shake the mix too much from time to time. As a general rule of thumb it should last 2 weeks or even up to 4 weeks, but the quantity of yeast generated gradually weakens from week to week, I replace mine every 2 weeks whether it is needed or not just so I maintain a good amount.

Not sure how much effect you will get from a single generator, I run two with the 6 cup sugar mix on my 550litre tank.

Fantastic - will have to be a single generator for a week or two - need to spend less cash ! cheers for the recipe, will redo it tonight

THanks
Tom

[Merrilyn]

Fantastic thread. Lots of good information. Thanks for the input everyone, and thanks Phil for your great diagrams :P

[aks]

this is turnig out to be very informative

[Phlipper]

Woohoo :P I dont know why everyone says I'm so stupid :lol: :lol:
Glad you are getting some hints out of all this, this is why I stick to the forums, information shared gladly :)

[aks]

one question bicarb soda? can i use baking soda or are they the same...(clearly i am not into baking)

[TomNS]

Well I got it going like a champion.

Where I went wrong was having the spray pack on the floor on its own - it was too cold and there was precious little going on.

I then got cranky and thought about a getting a bucket, filling it with water and putting another aquarium heater in there. After my last energex bill ($500 for the quarter - I though better of that).
With a rush of blood, washed the bottle off and jammed it into the free water return area of my sump. It runs at about 26-28 degrees.

And away we go - bubbles nice and consistently.

Oh and FYI the little 200L/ph are availabled at Bunnings for $9.90 - very good value.

Tom

[Phlipper]

one question bicarb soda? can i use baking soda or are they the same...(clearly i am not into baking)

They are the same, and the reason the Bi-carb is added is to stabilise the mixture a little, it's dirt cheap.

[Phlipper]

Good thinking Tom about placing the generator into the warm sump, necesssity is the mother of invention as they say, or something like that ? :P I have mine within the aquarium cupboard along with the filter canister and associated pipes, the canister and piping also keep the generator warm within the confines of the cupboard. I haven't done so yet, but I was also thought about extending the filter pipes a little longer and coiling it around the generator to keep it warm. 8-)

[TomNS]

Well my CO2 system seems to run out of puff today - that makes about 1 week out of the mix. Do you think having it in the sump is making it react too quickly ? Should I run it at a slightly cooler temperature in a bucket with a heater at 20 - 23 degress ? Phlipper, what temp do you reckon your cabinet is at?

Cheers
Tom

[Phlipper]

Howdy Tom, I'm sure if your generator is running at a higher temp then most likely your Co2 will expire sooner, just checked mine and the internal cabinet temperature where the generator is housed is 20oC. I think I mentioned that the time a mix lasts will vary from time to time, and the times it produces Co2 vary as well. You may as well just keep it at room temperature anyway, and you should get about 2 weeks out of a mix. My latest mix is now 2 weeks old and pumping strongly. Are you sure there are no leaks at all ? Shaking of the generator will also expire the yeast mix prematurely and it is best avoided.

A lot can also depend on the type and age of the yeast you use, I just use bakers yeast, and if it's too old it will be less effective, or the temperature of the water you used to make up the yeast mixture, if it is too hot initially you can kill the yeast. The bubbles produced by the yeast mix may not be constant, but there should almost always be some bubbling action within the reactor caused bt the pump mixing the Co2. Another good reason why you may see very little bubbling happening is if the entry point for the Co2 into the reactior is too deep in the water, it should be no deeper than 150mm or the water pressure will hold much of it back.

[TomNS]

Thanks for the FYI - I will have to modify my setup a bit - I have a bit more cash (it is not that I am totally broke it is just this home renovation thing can really suck the cash out of you !) this week so I should be able to buy some more fittings and hoses etc and re make my current to improve efficiency.

Will let you know how I go - great advice again :)

Cheers
Tom

[cdan]

Hi guys,
Once you mix the sugar, yeast water how long does it take for the mixture to start making co2?

[Phlipper]

Usually a few hours, but a lot depends on temperature, age of the yeast etc.

[TomNS]

Well,

I totally rebuilt my system tonight and it looks like it is working just like Phlippers - looks identical to your photos. I have pulled my system out of the sump and am sitting it over the top - using the sump as a mini "warming plate" for the pressure pack.

Look forward to the results.

I was going to pull out the old gravel syphon until I noticed a young pair of mine had spawned on it. It was a great discus evening all around!

Tom

[TomNS]

Quick photo - my dodgy co2 gravel syphon will be going when these guys are done with it, have a new "entendable" style one from bigw

[Phlipper]

Curious as to how you've connected the reactor tube to the perforated piping on the substrate, it looks like a piece of tubing ?
]
A much neater join is achievable if you use the smallest size gravel syphon tube you can buy, it is an extendable 19mm clear tube, I got mine from Big W, but I've seen the same in fish stores for double the price. Just by chance the 19mm syphon device is the same size as the common 19mm black poly pipe elbows available from any hardware store.



Oh yeah, here's something I did originally much to my embarassment, when I first installed the clear syphon tube reactor I forgot ot remove the one way flap valve within the blue cap on the unit :oops: and took me a while to work out why the pump wasn't allowing water to enter the reactor...DOH !!! :oops: :lol:

[Mulisha]

Bunning have everything u need!

I went to buying the other day and brought 10M of poly 4mm tubing for my co2 and i think it much better IMO alot firmer so i think less co2 will escape hehe

[Phlipper]

I buy that same black tubing if that's what you mean ? from the irrigation section. I prefer myself the softer more pliable one, there are usually two types. I like the stuff cos it doesn't go brittle at all and doesn't look crappy when it gets soiled on the inside...........and cheap.

You're right Bunnings has everything you need for everything you do, I'd hate to be trying to run a hardware store and competing with Bunnings, I love the place 8-)

[TomNS]

yep like I said that is my bodgey one - the other is just like you said - I am pulling that one out after they have finished spanning with it and replacing it with another like you describe

Tom

[aks]

my CO2 has started working fine just gonna get few plants and test it :) just another question is plant fertilizer really necessary??? and does it have any effect on discus?

[Phlipper]

Plant fertiliser is needed if you want good results, just like all living things they need to feed. Ideally the way to get it all up and running, whether it be DIY Co2 or pressurised Co2 is to plant lots of plants straight away to oxygenate the water properly through the photosynthesis reaction. With Co2 you cannot have too much air or oxygen entering the water from your filter or pump, this will only result in the Co2 being forced out of the water. This means no airstones, and almost no bubbling of air into the tank at all, otherwise the Co2 is wasted.

[Phlipper]

Further to the last post, Co2 dosing is not the only key in achieving a well planted aquarium, it is only one part of the necessary items for succes.

The Co2 will have little effect unless you have good lighting as well, this is even more important than Co2, without good lighting the photosynthesis process will not happen, the plants will not flourish at all in poor lighting.