discus not eating?

[ren]

hey guys and girls !

today i bought 2 pigeon blood and 2 turquoise discus' and i absolutely LOVE them.. told they are about 6months old

i got them home around mid day and its now midnight and they havent eaten a thing - they showed no interest in the discus pellets i was recomended at the pet store to buy and no interest in regular tropical flakes i have for my other fish in the tank..

im starting to get really worried - these are beautiful fish i really dont want to lose them.. is this normal for them not to eat when introduced into a new tank?? fingers crossed they eat something tomorrow morning - i may give some frozen bloodworms a go (but the guy in the store assured me the pellets were fine)

could it simply be because they may have been fed earlier in the store??

the aquarium itself is a 3ft
pH is 7.0
havent checked ammonia or nitrite will do so in morning
other tank mates include 4 platies and 4 gourami's (none are being aggressive or anything like that so i doubt its them??)

please help!

thanks a million

p.s. the forums look awesome cant wait to get more involved :)

ren

[marg]

ren,

give them time - they are just settling in - it is not unusual for them to go days without food when they are placed into a new tank - just keep tempting them. Bloodworms may work - very few Discus will turn their noses up at them.

marg.

[jim from sydney]

Ren
first of all.....welcome :blob

secondly......Marg is right.......dont worry about them not eating yet......they are getting used to their new surroundings and can take days.......when hungry they will eat.......worst thing to do is for you to worry.........adult discus can go up to 2 or 3 weeks without food....just be patience Pal.....good luck....Jim

[Jadels]

adult discus can go up to 2 or 3 weeks without food....

Wow thats amazing.. I'm so glad mine ate within a few hours i would have been worried sick otherwise, most fish are hungry all the time, but discus they must have more brains its only a new castle every third trip around or something :lol: Good luck with it mate and you better gets some pics for us all the check out soon :wink:

[ren]

thanks guys for the replies and support :)

i tried blood worms this morning and one of the pigeon bloods seemed to have a half decent feed from them, and the other pigeon blood had one or two worms that was all .... the other two turquoise ones didnt come near it showed no interest at all... and in fact one of the turqs seemd to be having a go at the pigeon who was eating !! rounding him up and sending it back into the corner so it wont eat??? strange!!! but im feeling a little better that one ate properly and another showed interest.. fingers crossed for tonight :) will try the discus pellets tonight in a few hrs time

god i cant get over how beautiful these fish are - everytime i went to the aquarium and admired them i actually thought they were marine fish and i couldnt get them in my tank so now im so happy :))

re: photos i actually tried uploading some with my first post but it said the attachment limit is something like 150kb or somtehing?? my photos are about 800kb each :( im not sure how to make them smaller in size

[ren]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/renaudb

pics here :)

warning theyre pretty big =P

[endless]

LOL Love your background :). i Dont mean to alarm you or anything but that looks like a new setup. If so i would keep a real close eye on the nitrite and ammonia. Chances are you tank may not have yet cycled

[Jadels]

Put your pictures in paint right click on viewer and then edit (normally goes to paint) or open via the options in paint, then go to Image, Strech/Skew then stretch 40% horizontal and vertical and its normally about the right size.. hope this helps.

[nicholas76]

Ren,


An old trick of mine is to bring out some live brime shrimp.

They simply cant resist live food 9 out of ten times. I find they quickly forget about being shi*ty and upset and quickly go on the hunt looking for more yummy brime.

I'd generally do this after a day or two anyway.

[ren]

endless: yep it is a fairly new tank, its had fish in it for 3 weeks now (1st week platies, 2nd week gourami, 3rd week discus) but before i added them all to the aquarium the water settled in the tank for 2weeks

jadels thanks for that new trick, now i dont need to go to uni ive already learnt my new thing for the day lol jk!

i fed them half a cube of frozen blood worms again this morning
only one from four ate - same pigeon blood as yesterday :((

nicholas ill try buying some live brine shrimp today

i also removed the four gourami's that swim a little faster than the discus to a friend's tank for a few days maybe this will help with the aclimatisation ?

ren

[samir]

dont worry about them, they could take upto two weeks to settle down. once they do, they will be begging for food at the front of the tank.

[ren]

day4 : still only 1 pigeon blood eating the others show no interest :(

they do however seem more comfortable in the tank now swimming around freely even with the light turned on

[nicholas76]

it always relates to water quality one way or another


did you ask the person you bought them from what ph they came from?

[taksan]

I'd be testing PH, Nitrates,Nitrites, Ammonia, KH and GH and posting the results here.
What Temprature is the tank?
How long has the tank been cycled for?
If its 3 weeks old did you do a fishless cycle prior to adding fish?
How many and what % of water changes do you do weekly?
All these questions are nessesary for anyone to be of any assistance to you.
From the sound of things you have put fish into a untested uncycled tank and if thats the case I'm afraid its likely that all your fish will die if you do not take immediate drastic action.

[samir]

if you get an ammonia reading get some sera nitrivec or cycle and add that to your tank also something that neutralises ammonia, no need to panic for now, try leave a little food(very little) maybe they will eat in your abscence. if they dont eat for more than a week then the've probably got internal parasites. dont stress out and do some extra water changes till you're sure there's no ammonia.

[ren]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!

swung by the fish shop this arvo and picked up some live brine shrimp and live blackworm... the shimp got bashed by the platies and the discus didnt touch..

but then the blackworms they couldnt get enuogh of... i only fed them a very small amount and will give them some more later on tonight :):):):):):):):):):):):)

temperature is at 26 degrees

pH is at 7.0

prior to adding fish (first ones were the platies 3 weeks ago) i left the tank to settle for 2weeks with the water conditioners in it... this includes an ammonia and chlorine neutraliser as well as the basic salts to keep the fish healthy

i do two 30% changes a week

not quite sure how to answer how long its been cycled for??

thanks for the tip to use live foods - i'll now be including them as a regular part of their diet :)

now to get them to eat the pellets!

[nicholas76]

hehe glad we could help you, :D

but I did only suggest live brime!

I generally wont use worm due to the higher risk of disease.

its like feeding sugar to a baby and its great to watch them go nuts on worms isnt it,, but I do encourage you to get them on a pellet / flake / frozen worm / brime type diet for as soon as possible.

[taksan]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!

swung by the fish shop this arvo and picked up some live brine shrimp and live blackworm... the shimp got bashed by the platies and the discus didnt touch..

but then the blackworms they couldnt get enuogh of... i only fed them a very small amount and will give them some more later on tonight :):):):):):):):):):):):)

temperature is at 26 degrees

pH is at 7.0

prior to adding fish (first ones were the platies 3 weeks ago) i left the tank to settle for 2weeks with the water conditioners in it... this includes an ammonia and chlorine neutraliser as well as the basic salts to keep the fish healthy

i do two 30% changes a week

not quite sure how to answer how long its been cycled for??

thanks for the tip to use live foods - i'll now be including them as a regular part of their diet :)

now to get them to eat the pellets!

Your tank isn't Cycled 3 weeks isn't long anough at all. Discus are a sensitive species that will suffer in uncycled water.
26c is too cold for discus ... I would up it to 28.5c (this will improve their feeding as well)
Until your tank Cycles i'd be testing daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate.
You will know when your tanks cycled when it shows no ammonia or nitrite and only shows nitrate.
I'd be upping your water changes to 3 times a week @ 50% in the meantime.

[PJP]

definitely turn up the temp like taksan said
but I've found the easiest way to keep an eye on ammonia is with one of those seachem ammonia alert tags
and just get a small bottle of cycle or something like that with the bacteria already in it to speed up the bacteria seeding process

Peter

[Phlipper]

Yep, your tank is really too new to have discus yet, you may run into problems :? you will need to keep an eye on your water parameters closely as has been suggested, but if that is not possible then you should at least be doing the normal 40 % water changes twice weekly or more if time permits, even in a cycled tank with good water parameters these water changes are necessary or run the risk of problems with the Discus. Discus are a high maintenance fish, short cuts will likely result in disappointments.

I'm not so sure about the Blue Gouramis as tank companions as well, they can tend to be aggressive and bossy compared to the shyer Discus, this could also lead to problems.

[ren]

hey everyone

thanks for all the advice - it really annoys me because ive been doing exactly what i was told by the guys at the fish stores :(

and the thing that really bites me is that i specifically told the guy in the store X before i bought the discus that i had 4 platies and 4 gourami's in it at 25degrees - and he said they would be fine - a day after adding the discus i remove dthe gouramis as i could see they were bothering the discus - so now they reside in my mates tank :( re: temperature its now at 26-27 im going to try move the platies to another tank then crank it to 28 as suggested..

i checked for ammonia it read 1.0 on my tester kit so i added some ammonia neutraliser which the guy in the store sold me when i bought the tank.. im gonna look for that "cycle" product this arvo with the live bacteria in it - meanwhile ive since done two 50% waterchanges since i saw your post taksan, ill keep doing so every 2-3days until ammonia = 0

thanks so much for the help im just shocked at the difference in what i was told in the store and on here.. its really eye opening into the fact that theyre just trying to make sales and take advantage of someone new :(

ren

[nicholas76]

Mate its important not to think all LFS stores are like that but you do need to realise that some are there to make a quick $$$$

youll need this and that plus but this gravel filter crap crap crap.

IMO "cycle" is CRAP.

Utilise your test kit, check your parameters, and ensure you conduct frequent yet scheduled w/c to ensure your spikes are handled ok

[samir]

IMO "cycle" is CRAP.

I've started to believe that too, had a bad experience with it. Sera nitrivec worked for me, but you gotta put it in the fridge after opening.

[Phlipper]

You can buy all the chemicals and test kits you like that claim to do this and that, but if you do there is still only one way to counteract the adverse water characteristics that the test kits indicate............" water changes ", tank cleanliness is everything ! Initially I spent a fortune on test kits, ammonia removers etc etc etc etc etc, nowadays I just keep up the water changes without fail and the water stays well within tolerances and cost nothing but my time............fresh water is mandatory ! :idea: 8-)

[nicholas76]

Your pretty much on themoney Phill,
I remember when Istarted off, I had my hands in the tank all the time, buying a fortune of " snake oil " wonder solutions from the LFS
Water changes and a consistent routine are they way..

[ren]

hi everyone

-> well basically you were all right and i just had a big learning experience - my tank was no where near being ready (and it still isnt but its on the way now).. im angry at the fish shop guys from two different stores who both advised me that my tank was ready to add more and more fish after 3 weeks from being setup with no cycling what so ever - boy was i gullible... im just glad i didnt lose any fish over it especially my precious discus !!

what happened was the discus were basically only eating the blackworms live and when i tried discus pellet food and frozen blood worms only one would eat them the others were not interested.. so concerned i took a sample of my water to a different new local fish shop i found and they did a heap of tests and basically found that my ammonia was a little high and my nitrites were through the roof !! the guys at this shop on seeing the results immediately boosted into action running around the place untli they found their big filter they use to rotate between all the tanks for cleaning - they gave me two big pieces of filter wool from it and ordered me to put it into my filter right away and add a cap full of "cycle" every 2 days for the next 1-2 weeks until the ammonia and nitrites = 0 they said do MINIMAL water changes - even none if i can help it - admitedly ive done two 1 bucket changes since (10 days since i added wool) but only because there were massssssive amounts of waste on the bottom...

so daily ive been taking tests of ammonia and nitrites - i dont have a nitrate tester yet but ive been watching the values fall and if my test kit is accurate then my ammonia is now 0 and nitrites are very close 0.05 or so

so im extremely happy that my fish have made it this far..

eating wise..
3 of them are eating frozen blood worms - the 4th takes in but spits out
2 of them eat the discus pellets no problems the other 2 just show no interest yet

overall 3 have nice chunky bodies but the 4th discus (who doesnt eat bloodworms or pellets yet) is looking rather skinny.. so i gave in and gave him a small dose of live blackworms - hadn't seen it eat in about 5 days maybe

what did i learn from all of this?

i should have done my own research before talking to salespeople at fish shop... was a mistake to trust them entirely

so this is just to thank everyone out there who warned me of my water parameters etc etc... it was a real eye opening experience and it really put me on the edge seeing my nitrite test at the store going "off the scale" and the guy saying my fish would have died in a matter of days had i not of come to see them..

i kept a record of my test results daily on my website here if anyones interested to see them... http://www.renaudb.com/aq/

just a question .. from day 3 to day 5 theres a seemingly huge drop in nitrite values is this normal? surprised me that it dropped so suddenly in that short time while i was away

cheers again

ren

[Merrilyn]

Hi Ren, glad you've got things back on track.

Unfortunately a lot of shops fail to explain the need for cycling a tank, because it's a fairly complex situation. They get around it by telling people to add fish slowly to their tank, and feed lightly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Some of the more hardy fish can cope with the ammonia and nitrite spikes which are part of a cycle, but your discus cannot.

The guys in that last fish shop deserve a big 'thankyou' because they really saved your discus.

There are a lot of articles written in here, and on the net, about cycling a fish tank, so I'll just give you a very brief explanation of the progress of a cycling tank.

Fish in an aquarium produce ammonia, every time they breath and every time they pass waste. This ammonia is actually toxic to fish, so it has to be removed. Luckily there is a naturally occuring bacteria found in the air and in the water that "eats" ammonia, and turns it into nitrite.

Nitrite is also toxic to fish, but once again, nature to the rescue, and there is a second bacteria that "eats" nitrite and turns it into nitrate, which is non toxic. It doesn't happen immediately, it can take 4 weeks or longer. This process is known as the cycle of the tank, so when someone asks if your tank is cycled, that's what they mean.

As I said this bacteria is found in all bodies of water, and in the air, but in very small numbers. Fish produce a lot of ammonia, so we need a fairly large bacteria colony. It takes time for the colony to grow and expand to the size where it can deal with all the ammonia your fish produce.

This first part of the cycle can take two weeks. If you test your water each day for ammonia, you will notice a steady increase in your readings, till it reaches a 'spike' then it will quickly drop. That means the bacteria are consuming all the ammonia that your fish are producing and turning it into nitrite.

At this time, your tests will begin to show a nitrite reading, which will steadily increase over the next two weeks or so, till it spikes and then it will also quickly drop. The second type of bacteria are now doing their job of converting the toxic nitrite to harmless nitrate.

Nitrate is easily removed by twice weekly water changes.

The reason you saw such a quick drop in your nitrites after you added the used filter wool is that you were adding a mature colony of bacteria to your tank, all ready to go to work.

From here on, you simply need to test your water regularly, to make sure that the ammonia level and nitrite level stay at zero. Any increase in ammonia or nitrites calls for an immediate water change.

Good luck with your first venture into discus keeping :P

[nicholas76]

your nitrates! ensure your water changing schedule is suitable for your fish / tank ratio!

[jim from sydney]

Ren

did you de-worm your discus after you got them?????

[ren]

Jim, nup i didn't know to.. but i did talk to someone and he gave me some worming tablets which ive been sneaking into their food over the last few days so fingers crossed if they had any that theyre all disappearing !

i heard if you see white waste in the tank after using these tablets it would show that there WERE worms and that the medication is working? i havent seen any white yet

i dont have a nitrate tester :( im going to try get another water sample to the shop again tomorrow to see nitrate levels

cheers!

ren

[taksan]

hi everyone

-they said do MINIMAL water changes - even none if i can help it - admitedly ive done two 1 bucket changes since (10 days since i added wool) but only because there were massssssive amounts of waste on the bottom...


ren


Thats plain wrong bad advice !
Provided you use proper water conditioners you should be doing massive water changes.

[nicholas76]

hmmm i might argue that taksan.

how can a tank properly cycle if you keep doing massive water changes?


saying that im more enclined to w/c heaps too especially seing that you have already stocked the tank.

[ren]

i think his reasoning was that i would be removing the good bacteria with every water change??

im not 100% but ive tried to stick to his advice

[Mulisha]

the good basteria will grow on things inside your tank and on your filter bio system. I'm not 100% sure but i don't think there is any bateria in the water not 100% sure though.