Changing colour as fish mature

[k9outfit]

Just a dumb question... Is it possible for a nice looking young Discus to fade and become a non-descript colour/pattern? :( Also, by what age or size do they have their permanant or mature colouring?

I got some fairly nice looking ones a couple of months back, and either I'm getting too used to their colours, or they're fading on me! :shock: Is that possible? I do 45-50% w/c 3 times a week, they get 4 meals a day (LR's beefheart recipe 2-3 times a day, along with any one of the following: bloodworms, Mysis, Brine shrimp, glassworms etc...) Temp is 88 F., etc... Definitely not distressed or sickly; healthy as can be.

[Merrilyn]

Hmmm now that's interesting. The colour usually intensifies as the fish matures.

Is it possible for you to post a couple of pictures?

[nicholas76]

What strain of discus are we talking about??


i think a picture would tell a thousand words in this instance.

[shayesmommy]

umm. is it a regular thing?
cause ive seen my discus go clear. but that was when i moved them. they had no color. almost white.
and they didnt even act stressed. but i seen it happen too. it only last a day tho?

[FishLover]

Hmmm... Looks like your food source is mostly meaty. You may want to try add some flake food that enhance the colors. Discus sometimes need some variaty in their food. Flake food would provide some of the things they need for better colors, especially for the flakes that designed to enhance color.

I have 4 different kind of flakes that I alternate them each meal, plus BW and things like that. Omega One has one called super color that is good, so is OSI vivid color, Tetra color flakes, and vigie flakes from Omega One.

[k9outfit]

Thanks for the responses...

I do have some digital pics a friend took a few days after they arrived (I'll see if I can't figure out how to post them), but the present pics might take a while. I only have a manual camera, so to take the pics, have them developed and post might take a while. But, looking at the existing pics, it definitely is NOT my imagination! :cry: Best way to describe it is that the red striations especially on the flanks seem to be smeared, the striations having lost all their definition - and vibrant colour.

So, while I start the process of the current pics, I'll try to feed them up on pellet/flake foods, and see if that might not get them back to looking good. Basically though, would the general consensus be that it's probably more a diet thing rather than a permanant discoloration? (PLEASE say "yes"!)

The 2 varieties in question are Red Spot Greens (F2 - at least that's what I ordered) and Super Red Scorpions.

[samir]

one of my pigeon bloods first turned orange striated and later lost them when it got older, there was another post on this forum where someones pigeon had lost colour.

[FishLover]

If you have something imported from Asia and young Discus showing up with vivid color, they maybe loaded with horemone and that would not be good news.

For now, I think adding more vairaities in the diet would be the approach I would go. It is good for the Discus anyway. Can't hurt them. It may take a while before they show up good color again.

As for the other matter, there is nothing you can do to correct the problem.

Only time will tell.

[shayesmommy]

try some NLS from big als. For a color inhancer.
I think its doing a wonderful job.
And all my discus goes crazy for it. well every fish does.
so i dont think urs should have a problem since they are from the same place.

[nicholas76]

still not convinced its a food issue.

brime shrimp, mysis shrimp, contains some amount of caratine ,that will bring out colour but if you are using lady reds beef heart mix the spirulina itself should well and truly pump your fish full off colours.

just buy some tetra bit that is a nice alternative that helps with colouring too.

[Merrilyn]

I think fishlover got it right when he said that some of the young fish coming from Asia are colour fed or hormoned to intensify the colour.

Once the fish are no longer getting this colour enhancer, the artificial colour gradually fades back to normal.

Yes, it does sound diet related, and you can assist the return of good colour by adding one of the many good flake or granular foods to their diet. Check that the label says "natural colour enhancer". These are fine for your fish and will add a bit more variety to their diet.

Just a word of caution, if you see very young fish with intense colour, beware. This is not natural. I have seen red fish hormoned to the point where their white face turned green, and they only lived for six months after purchase, all dying within weeks of each other.

Now this is definately NOT what you want in your fish. Interesting to note that the breeders NEVER colour feed their breeding stock. Only the fish they sell are colour fed.

[marg]

Think you are right Ladyred - I seem to recall when I first started with my Discus reading somewhere that some breeders feed their Sales Stock with colour enhancers in order to make them look more attractive to buyers - once they are taken off that diet and fed a more normal type of varied diet, their colours fade.

Marg.

[k9outfit]

Man; I have no concrete reason to say this, but I really don't think the fish were "loaded" with hormones. Sure, they had reasonably nice colour (for an immature fish), but I sincerely doubt (hope?) that that would have been the end result once fully mature!

But it does raise a question... if a young fish is loaded up with hormones, wouldn't it (once fully mature) look like the young hormoned-up version? Or does the hormoned immature fish show colours that are not in it's non-hormoned adult's vocabulary?

BTW, as of this morning, I have started to introduce some dry, colour enhancing pellets, which hopefully they will eventually accept as part of their daily diet. I've molded the pellets into small frozen blocks, with loads of garlic guard; I'm hoping they'll eventually learn to love 'em! At the moment, most of them just kind of choke it down - but they really aren't impressed!

[nicholas76]

Sounds like you have a red turk of sorts.

Ive seen hormoned and normal versions of this strain and I am yet too see one that has "faded or lost considerbale colour.

if it were a melon or some pigeon variety then yeah I would agree with you all but in this case ILl stand firm hehe


POST a picture k9outfit :D Lets see what you are talking about.

[shayesmommy]

i didnt think buddy used hormones i was under the impression he didnt.
And mine were pretty dull in color then when i first got them. I notice the difference when i look at them.
Has yours gained any color what so ever before the dulling?

[lesley]

From my experience, spirulina will not enhance colour.

Why don't you add the colour enhancing food you are talking about to your next mix of ladyred's BH? You can add a special colour enhancing food to a mix - aspartene (don't how you spell it, something like that??) comes to mind.

I believe that red pepper adds colour to fish?

I do think that a fair few young fish are fed with food that does have colour enhancers added to it, they are not necessarily hormoned for this. I have used tetra colour bits in the past and red in the filters indicates that there is a fair bit of "colour" in the mix. My discus ignore it now that I use BH and live brine shrimp- the plecs get it all the colour bits.

Have you changed anything in your tank?? lighting/substrate/background etc. Yes, I do think that get used to them and sometimes as they get older and patterns "spread" a bit, they do look different.

I use a beefheart mix from the Discus Holland page and the original colours have not faded. One LFS guy I respect said that adding colour enhancers to my BH mix would definitely enhance colours if I wanted that.

HTH

[lesley]

From my experience, spirulina will not enhance colour.

Why don't you add the colour enhancing food you are talking about to your next mix of ladyred's BH? You can add a special colour enhancing food to a mix - aspartene (don't how you spell it, something like that??) comes to mind.

I believe that red pepper adds colour to fish?

I do think that a fair few young fish are fed with food that does have colour enhancers added to it, they are not necessarily hormoned for this. I have used tetra colour bits in the past and red in the filters indicates that there is a fair bit of "colour" in the mix. My discus ignore it now that I use BH and live brine shrimp- the plecs get it all the colour bits.

Have you changed anything in your tank?? lighting/substrate/background etc. Yes, I do think that get used to them and sometimes as they get older and patterns "spread" a bit, they do look different.

I use a beefheart mix from the Discus Holland page and the original colours have not faded. One LFS guy I respect said that adding colour enhancers to my BH mix would definitely enhance colours if I wanted that.

HTH

[nicholas76]

From my experience, spirulina will not enhance colour.

HTH

Thats a shame Lesley ,, but people SPIRULINA DOES enhance colouring..


with all due respect Lesley perhaps you werent doing somthing right,, perhaps the spirulina ratio wasnt correct??

Ive seen blue diamonds develop redness in the fins due to spirulina!

[chrissyoscar]

I'm with you Nick.
From my experience it does enhance color.
I've also seen BD's on spirulina with the orange-red fins.
I've also used it on my LSS and there is a difference.

[goldenpigeon]

spirulina does make a difference. i mistly notice the colouring difference in my blue fish and reds. possibly your not putting enough spirulina in?

[Dee]

Hiya Guys,

Lesly, IMO spirulina works well with the more red based fish ... eg Red Turqs and Melons and the like, there is defiantly a noticable difference if fed in the correct quantity's and is best used with BH mixes.

If you really want to bring out the red in red based fish, my call would be to go with Astaxanthin (NatuRose) and the correct colour spectrum lighting for best results. Worked a treat for me :wink:

Cheers,

Dee :)

[lesley]

Ok,

will be interesting to see - my first lot of fish will only eat the beeheart - my newest fish who are going to be quarantined for at least couple of months are looking for a mix of foods - I have leopards with red colouring in both lots so this will be a good change to compare! If anything my blues are a little less intense with the BH, but, maybe it is the proportion of spirulina.

What is in the makeup of the spirulina that would deepen red colours?

[nicholas76]

lesley

Freds BH recipe on DPH gives you the correct quantities Id use his ratios

[k9outfit]

Well, unless I thaw & re-freeze a bunch of LR's beefheart recipe, they won't be getting any of the commercial food mixed in the beefheart for a while (I ended up with ~ 3.5-4 kg. of the stuff; got a bit carried away... :oops: ) And I did add a fairly liberal dose of Spirulina to the recipe. I'll keep trying to convince my fishies how they're really missing out on the good things in life by turning their aristocratic little noses up at the colour enhancing food.... So, guess time will tell. I'll still try to get pics of them, but may be a couple of weeks before I can get everything together for "before" & "current" photos.

Thanks again for all the input! This is definitely the No. 1 Forum in my books!
:wave2