More Discus tips from the "expert"

[Brilliant]

Yup its that time again! Did yah miss me?

I couldnt leave you guys in doubt like that and I had to clarify some things.

Well I took notice to the article posted in the locked thread. I thought you guys would also be interested in the Eco Aqualizer and the supporting article from the same source July 2003 edition. I could probably look and quote more silliness. I think these two go hand and hand...

BTW my Discus are 7 months old. I keep a 6.6 pH (not 4.2)

I do think the thread started some intelligent debating at first then sorta went downhill. I would like to continue this further in a more positive direction because I believe progress was being made on both sides.

I realized that you may have been negative because of a misunderstanding not that you were insulted. Its not a good reason to get mad if soneone suggests a better way to do things you know...how do you think I learned everthing....yes even I was using pH down at one point in time...

Maybe we can skip all of that negative stuff and I will try to be nore open minded.

Back to the article, which may shed some light here. It states thsat most Discus are tank bred. Mine arent exacty tank bred, well in the sense it makes it sound like here. Mine are bred from wild stock, F1. Not too far from the tree if you know what I mean. Perhaps being that your on the other side of the world as South America your not getting many wild or near wild Discus...like stated they are coming from tanks in singapor, not Amazon waters. Now this wild or tank bred Discus is obviously going to require different parameters....or at least I would think so. Maybe along with the Wild and tank raised Discus there are two types of Discus keepers.

Do I have a point here or are my views completely radical to the point of no return?

Listen, I am not trying to resurrect any ties here or make up for anything I typed before. I am just trying to go through this again in a "better way"? to learn something. What better place to learn it then here where I have soo many fans who know what I am typing about already.

Do any successful breeders have anything to offer about egg fertilization and high KH? Is this only an issue with GH?

What I seem to be seeing here is all sorts of pH and different water parameters for all different situations...IE hatching...raising...grow outs..ect...and the was I speak of seems to be too complex....I am having a hard time understanding the opposition here outside of the singapor tank Discus issue.

[Brilliant]

I really love to hate you guys. I think ive really identified the opposition here. I think the case has been stated on either side and enough sour comments already typed and hopefully thats over with. Lets get down to business. No I dont mean to try and be ignorant and start talking about the neighbor with pH 8.0 as if this means something.

I have this idea. I was just thinking about uncertainty. If I were the first person to try and keep Discus. What would I do? I think you all know where I am going here...thats really not the point. What I feel is happening here is that instead of uncertainty ans studying the source, weve evolved into a different type of studying. Captive bred studies will show what your trying to support here.

Being a newcomer to Discus I will naturally go to the "scientific crap"...the biology (study of life) and find a solution. A solution...the sure fire thing that will keep these fish thriving...is the natural water parameters.

Getting these natural water parameters can be challenging. This is something that I feel should be done the right way. By saying the right way I mean obtaining one parameter without adversely effecting the other. There are only a few possible ways to do this in the first place. SUggesting the right way may seem narrow minded, if your going to do something do it right.


PS yes I know my pigeons are not F1 or near wild. I meant to add something to that nature in the post above because my latest fish are F1.

[Cuong]

It's obvious that the 'debate' was from either end of the discus keeping spectrum. Everyone was generally correct, relative to their own situation. Here in Australia we don't see too many wilds (at an affordable price), compared to that of say the US. If we did, then I'm sure most of us would be keeping wilds and would keep strict water parameters that try and emulate the Amazon as much as possible. Just as you are. However the majority of the discus we get are domesticated and have already adjusted to a wider range of parameters over hundreds if not thousands of generations. Therefore it is not necessary to keep such strict water conditions.

Note: all of these points were said in the previous thread.

[marg]

Well said Schmuck.

Yes Diamond, I've gotta admit I did miss you - I got a lot of laughs out of that last thread, as did many others. Welcome back, just try to be a bit more open minded this time, after all, that is how we all learn - being prepared to listen to what everyone has to say.

Schmuck did you notice we have a new Sponsor called Deep Blue Aquaria - I ask this because in your Post you mentioned Wilds, and when I had a look at their Stock list they have some Wilds listed! I have asked for their location as I reckon that the Wilds will generate some interest.

Marg.

[stonedavid]

Best person to contact would be Squid, he deals in "wilds" and he is also done courses in aquaculture. But this isn;t to say his breeding and growing will be the same as "text book" due to different water and also climate.
Hope this helps.
Pete

[redghan]

Im sick of this arugument..

Have you even read the "Jack Wattley" book you have there brilliant?
you know the signed copy?

If you go to the water part in that book youll see that the people that
he interviewd all have different water paramaters from all over the world
and i dont recall "Jack" saying that they are wrong or right.

I wish a had the book here, so i could quote it for you and everyone else.
I think off memeory some even use differnt ph for breeders and
grow out tanks. Why would they do that? Im sure they know what there
doing after all they did invent and stablize alot of the strains that we love today.

You need to learn the golden rule for keeping any sort of animal.
"WHAT WORKS FOR ME, MIGHT NOT WORK FOR YOU"

[nicholas76]

Say david

In relation to squids wilds,,, are we taking about f1, f2,f3 or are we talking about wild strains that have been tank bred a dozen times over that came from singapore kinda thing??

[stonedavid]

From what i understand he has the true "wilds" straight from the wilds. I'll ask him next time he's online, a few months ago he was telling me how he has some shipped via germany or was it asia as they wldn't allow him to ship them direct form the country of origin. Hes also planning a gathering trip think next year sometime. Wish i was going lol. (Hope I have the above correct squid lol)
Pete

[goldenpigeon]

brilliant i remember clearly from the other thread that several times people said that if you are keeping wilds or F1 etc then you should keep your ph lower, if tank bred then its ok to go higher. how about reading mate? you dont seem to take on too much but like to blow your own horn!

whats said is said.

"WHAT WORKS FOR ME, MIGHT NOT WORK FOR YOU" as redghan said. your obviously not interested in hearing or admitting to what we do as ok in your "standards" so why keep the arguement going?

FACTS:

our fish are breeding, living long lifes, growing huge, perfectly healthy and very happy in their enviroment whether or not we keep our ph at 7.5 or 3.2.

its working for us a we r fine with it.

can it be said any simpler?

[OscarManAlpha]

Yes Diamond, I've gotta admit I did miss you - I got a lot of laughs out of that last thread, as did many others.

Marg why do you alway's refer to brilliant as Diamond ?

Cheers,

Mark

[Lichan]

Im sick of this arugument..

here here !!!....well said lets move on - this really is getting just a little tedious...


goldenpigeon wrote:
rob this thread is gold isnt it! it will be interesting to see if Brilliant pops back into this thread!

Oh GP - He will be back - mark my words... people like that just cant stay away. I am pretty sure we have seen this exact scenario happen quite recently... haven't we ?? Someone mention Rytis ??


Hate to say it GP ....but...!!??

[mcloughlin2]

Well I took notice to the article posted in the locked thread. I thought you guys would also be interested in the Eco Aqualizer and the supporting article from the same source July 2003 edition. I could probably look and quote more silliness. I think these two go hand and hand...


Yes, alot of different opinions and advice are put into that magazine but i posted it just to show that it is not only us in Australia that keep discus in a higher pH then what occurs in their natural habitat....:)


Back to the article, which may shed some light here. It states thsat most Discus are tank bred. Mine arent exacty tank bred, well in the sense it makes it sound like here. Mine are bred from wild stock, F1. Not too far from the tree if you know what I mean. Perhaps being that your on the other side of the world as South America your not getting many wild or near wild Discus...like stated they are coming from tanks in singapor, not Amazon waters. Now this wild or tank bred Discus is obviously going to require different parameters....or at least I would think so. Maybe along with the Wild and tank raised Discus there are two types of Discus keepers.

Do I have a point here or are my views completely radical to the point of no return?



yes you do have a very valid point..although it was mentioned by me and other members before.....If you have a wildcaught discus, or a F1 yes you would have to try to keep water conditions closer to what is expected in the wild....purely because they have not adapted as well as a F10 discus for example...




I realized that you may have been negative because of a misunderstanding not that you were insulted. Its not a good reason to get mad if soneone suggests a better way to do things you know...how do you think I learned everthing....yes even I was using pH down at one point in time...

Maybe we can skip all of that negative stuff and I will try to be nore open minded.



Nahhh brilliant watch it mate....that is not neccesarily true....lets keep both sides of the arguement opened minded shall we? Meaning what we are saying could be better then the way you do it?




What I seem to be seeing here is all sorts of pH and different water parameters for all different situations...IE hatching...raising...grow outs..ect...and the was I speak of seems to be too complex....I am having a hard time understanding the opposition here outside of the singapor tank Discus issue.

Yes thats right, most people keep growout tanks at pH 7, while they keep breeders at 6.5....hence the different recommendations

Depends from breeder to breeder though...

Lets keep this thread on topic this time guys.... :)

Sam ...

[marg]

.Mark,

I don't really know - I have a Brain Block everytime he comes on line :shock: :shock: :shock:.

Marg.

[samir]

I am having a hard time understanding the opposition here outside of the singapor tank Discus issue.
the Singapore tank discus type would also include Taiwan, Malaysia, China,Thailand etc. the world's top discus and most sucessful breeders come from this general area. you are converting Discus keeping into an advanced science and an elitist hobby, which it is not. you can get a 50k setup with led's and lcd screens and all that stuff but that doesn't mean that you will get better results than a discus breeder in, say penang, who is growing out his fish in plastic buckets with 100% water changes a day with just an airstone.
Discus are not as delicate as they are made out to be and can adapt and live very happily in a range of parameters(within reason). my nemesis is the rummy nose tetra, d@mn those buggers drop dead on me like flies.

[nicholas76]

Samir,

thats interesting to hear about your issues with the rummy nose bud ive found them to be pretty easy thank goodness.

how many do you keep in a tank , or have kept? I bought 30 this year and ive only losted one. Perhaps its a safety in numbers issue??

They share my planted community tank with my discus, geo orang caps, peppermints, corys and peppermints. Tank temp is 29 and ph was initially 7.4 and now its 6.9 , im trying to get my discus passed the pecking stage in this tank so im geingt my ph down to about 6.6

[samir]

i went to Strictly Aquariums and apparently the batch of rummys from which i bought has had problems and the've now taken them off sale. so i hope it was that and not just me. :?

[nicholas76]

aaah it would have to be bud.


Dont give up on them they are superb in numbers!

[Brilliant]

"WHAT WORKS FOR ME, MIGHT NOT WORK FOR YOU"

Nice quote. It may made an impact.

Heres mine

"What works for me, WILL work for you"

How's that?

Heres my deal, this fish isnt an Elitist hobby anymore because of folks like you. I guess I tried somehow to make it that way. Which I can tell isnt going to happen. I guess I am just pissed to see what happened. I realize these things youve said in the other post may have been said again...but notice it was nicely put without idiotic comments hiding it.

I would have tried to be a bit nicer this time around but I can see there isnt any give. Perhaps after this experience I will have the knowledge NOT to diss "new school" Discus keepers when I am writing in order to look like I agree with it. I had the notion that my "opposition" here would be drilled if confronted on this. I am terribly suprised by the outcome here.

Hey guys all hope isnt lost. Soon enough I WILL be able to give a Discus to my mom for her fishbowl!!! How exciting! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Cheers

[Merrilyn]

...how do you think I learned everthing....

Brilliant congratulations on having learned every thing there is to know about discus, and your first every fish are only seven months old :roll:

I'll bet you are all of 17 years old and drive your school teachers nuts.

I'm so glad you know everything now. There is obviously no need for you to participate in this forum any more.

On that note, mate I'm locking it off.

The day you have something to offer, other than slander successful discus keepers of long standing, I will leave your threads open. :evil: