Parasites on my new Discus????

[Mud Crab]

I have just brought my first ever two discus for my dream four foot tank (I have allready written to santa asking for a six footer ). The problem I have is that on their first night home, i noticed some grey/black spots about 1mm in diameter and in the centre if you look cosely enough is a pin prick of white, slighty raised. The fish shop i brought them from reckon they cant see anything wrong with the remaining discus in their shop...but my photo says otherwise...I think. I have had them for nearly two weeks now and have begun to imagine that some more spots began to grow and disappear during this time. But when i got my camera out tonight to take some happy snaps and give the best shot to you gus/gals I thought I was going nutz (which my better half reckons i allready am ). Nutz, because i could only find two spots and then only on one fish. I have a communal tank with the usual sand, live plants, all sorts of tetras and a couple of native gudgeons. The water temp is between 28 and 29 degrees celcius and the pH is slightly acidic to neutral. I suspect i purchased these two discus with a parasite added in as a freebie, what do you peoples reckon??? I need a cure too, as i paid what I consider a lot of $$$ for them and I cant face the missus with two dead fish, especially when i smuggled them home and hid the receipt.

The following photo shows a side on view and top view of the "bug" in question with colour manipulation at some wavelenghts to show structure. The "bug" appears to be definetly white and and sticks out of the fish like a small splinter. Bear in mind that these fish are only just over two inches long to get a sense of scale. I have 1/3 water changes twice weekly as usual prior to this post but will add some salt and go get some marine species...lol...just to make sure.

I have noticed the occasional spastic attack where they twitch on average about once every hour, but there is no obvious rubbing against objects or sand. Otherwise, they appear to be perfectly healthy.

[flukes]

In the discription you say it looks like a white pin prick which is slightly raised which made me think ICH but once looking at the photo's it does look like an external parasite.
If it is ICH it should look like small grains of salt springled across the discus, if it does look more like what is in the photo then you will need a multicure or something conatin mech green. I could be wrong on the med recommendation as iam not an expert on desease. But first work out if it is ICH/white spot, if it is not then it probably would be an external parasite. If it the later then reply with your finding and iam sure someone will either correct me on the mech green or confirm it,

Cheers
Scott

[Proteus]

add a small quantity of aquarium salt to promote slime coat growth, that may get rid of it, subsequent to someone coming along and giving some more specific advice.

[Mud Crab]

Thanks for making the effort with some advice. I have since done a huge search on the internet and have managed to trace the breeder of the two discus I recently purchased. And I was right, it is a parasite. :evil:
"OODIUM"/"Velvet disease" is what I have since discovered to be the culprit. A variant of the the typical oodium experienced by most hobbyists and dealers alike is sucking the life out of my fish. I have since informed the pet shop where i purchased these two fish from and said to watch their discus stock for any grey/black spots that may develop. The downside is that they have a high turn over rate and are unable to have them long enough to watch for early signs of infection.
I have this treatment plan in mind:

1) remove gravel and plants (barebottom).
2) half water change (making sure of the usual specs such as pH and temp etc)
3) Dose with Copper Sulfate to recommended parts per mil.
4) Combine copper treatment with formalin (37% formaldehyde in water solution).
5) Carbon treatment via filtration to remove nasties introduced.
6) Repeat steps 2-5 every third day for three weeks.
7) Get myself a @@#$%&*! quarentine tank so that next time i purchase fish i can keep an eye on them for a few weeks until i introduce them into my main tank :roll:

[Proteus]

hopefully Kev will see this, or one of the other resident disease gurus and give you other options....

what you plan seems rather radical for velvetif that is what it is.

[flukes]

Be careful with copper sulfate as it is a powerful med, try research as much as you can on the med before using. Havent heard of oodium desease before but i know velvet can be cured with less strong drugs than copper sulfate.
Try the salt till you can get a bit more info.

[Mud Crab]

Thanks for the advice peoples. It is true that conditions must be strictly met during a course of copper sulphate. Reason is alkalinity (not pH) must remain stable or toxicity will result. Also the pH must remain stable as well. I have removed all gravel and plants thus far and also have completed a half tank change, with an increase in temperature to 30 deg. celcius. I increased oxygen also due to the temp increase. All fish have been removed except the two discus and two silver dollars. Lighting has been stopped and a blanket placed over my tank to further treat for oodinium. I also didnt feed for two days durin this. I will be adding some salt today as the fish have now got used to a dramatic environmental change and are swimming quiet happily with fins erect... :D
Formalin and copper treatment is put on hold for now as the grey/black spots have stopped appearing and seem to be disappearing as well. WEIRD.
I think I may have reduced the spread of this bug and will keep yuh all posted as the final outcome. Thanks again for dah help :lol:

[flukes]

Never used sopper sulfate, as was told it is too easy too make a mistake.
I wouldnt be playing around with it as i know that can be solved with a simpler method.


Cheers



P.S - here me saying copper sulfate is too are to predict and iam raving and ranting on in another post that i want too try PP. :lol:

[Mud Crab]

"When treating parasite disease, the free copper level must be maintained between 0.15 - 0.20 mg/litre. If the concentration drops below this range it will not kill the parasites. If it rises above this level then it will kill the fish. A stock solution is prepared using 1 gram of copper sulphate (CuSO4.5H2O) to 250 mls distilled water. This solution now contains 1 mg copper per millilitre. The initial dose is 0.15 mg copper per litre. Therefore if the tank contains say 200 litres then the dose required will be 200 x 0.15 mgs copper = 30 grams = 30 mls of stock solution."
...WEB SOURCE UNKNOWN

The following link is the best run-down on the use of copper sulfate, (worth the read) that I have found.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA008

[flukes]

Great read thanks mate..

[weird]

One of my tangerines developed some white parasite looking thing, and I just increased the temp, did a water change and added some salt ... he is all better. I pretty much follow this method before any medication now.

[Merrilyn]

My sentiments exactly - Part of the vet's creed - FIRST DO NO HARM - Try the simple methods first, heat and salt and plenty of clean water. Most things will sort themselves out without resorting to strong meds.

[kalebjarrod]

keep it simple

water changes, a few degrees and some salt

stay cool, try this then go meds IMO

[Mud Crab]

I am happy to say that my discus are now happy little vegemites...an increase in temp to 30 degrees celcius, some added salt, no light turned on, eviction of other fish into another tank (the little fella now has a tank in his bedroom :D ), half water changes every second day. I have no need to resort to nasty chemicals and thanks to all who helped me on this :D

[kalebjarrod]

glad to see we could help

[flukes]

By the sounds of it, it was white spot. I could be wrong it might have been a parasite but raising the temp and adding salt normally cures white spot fairly quickly.

[kalebjarrod]

you said you have silver dollars with your discus?

how do these guys stir your discus?

and how big are each spp?

[Mud Crab]

The silver dollars are about two inches long and dont bother the discus much. Although I must say recently that the discus are getting pretty p*ssed at them as the discus blow a jet of water out of their mouth to clean the food and the silver dollars eat it before the discus do...I have since removed the silver pigs :wink:
The bug I was mentioning previously certainly wasnt the normal white spot.

[raymb1]

Check out the medications at <www.junglelabs.com>

[kevkoi]

jungle labs medications are not approved for use and distribution in Australia unfortunately.