Sizes for breeding tanks?

[marg]

This one is for the Guru's - like Mac, Ben and Crocky!! :

I have my intended Breeding Pairs in 2 foot X 1 foot tanks (55 Litres). I know that they are all Pairs as they have all Spawned and the Eggs have been Fertilized, but all Mums and Dads to be have turned into Cannibals :evil: Grrr!!.

I have been doing a bit of thinking lately, for as any of you who know me, I have been having problems getting my Fish (5 definite Pairs) to do anything except eat their Eggs (except for One Pair - in the past fortnight we have got to Wrigglers before they decided to dine!!).

PH is fine : usually around 6.8, GH,KH, Phosphate and Nitrate Levels are good - although I don't age my water (I live in a 2 bedroom Home Unit and the Second Bedroom houses most of my Fish apart from one 4 foot Community tank in the lounge-room, so space is a bit limited). because ageing my water is a bit of a problem I use Prime for every Water Change - and I am fanatical about cleaning up the waste and do it daily, also do a 50% Water Change every 2nd day- my Fish have been regularly wormed with Levamisole and Prazi and are all fat and healthy.

They are all well fed : Brekkie is Ladyreds' Beefheart/Seafood Mix, mid-morning is Tetra Bits, Lunch is Hikari Tropical for Discus, mid afternoon is Flake, Dinner is Bloodworms and supper is Tetra Bits again.

All of the Tanks have Sponge Filters and corner Filters which are cleaned regularly with my Water Changes.

My thoughts are that the general rule is (1) Discus per 40 Litres, and I currently house (2) Discus in each Breeding Tank (55 Litres).

Could this be the reason why I am having problems getting them to breed successfully?

If this is the case I would be prepared to get rid of the 2 Foot Tanks and convert to 3 foot Tanks (my Stands would accommodate that).

Any advice would be appreciated. HELP PEOPLES :!: :!:, I really want to breed some Bubbies - I am getting so Clucky watching them Spawn and it all amounting to zilch :!: :!: .,

Marg.

[mcloughlin2]

Marg - i realise this was not a question for me too answer but how 'bout you get some 24x18x18?

That will give them enough room... :wink:

[G-1000]

Hi Marg

McLoughlin is right - you need larger tanks..

Aim for a minimum of 120 litres in as much of a cube shape as possible. i.e 24x18x18 should be about right.

Your fish will eat their eggs if they feel water conditions are too poor...

G

[marg]

mcloughlin2,

I would be prepared to listen to any input in this matter.

As I have stated, the way that the tanks are set up at the moment I could do away with the 2" X 12' (55 Litres) at the moment and make way for some 3 foot tanks if I had to (expensive to do that sort of exchange when you are in my position, but I want my Fish to be contented, and IMO, contented Fish mean happy families hopefully!!!).

I'm just wondering what the successful Breeders on our Forum think?

C'mon Crocky, Guru of the Form on Breeding, what is your opinion :D :D - if anyone should know, you should!!?

Please Help - your advice would be really appreciated.


Marg.

[Ben]

The best success i had was in larger than "normal" tanks!

a standard 3 foot tank is ideal! (3x14x18)

[samir]

i cannot agree with ben more. a standard 3 footer is the best way to go. how many fry do you get Marg ? i dont age my water as well just use a cheap pond ager from big W and i've got about 150+ fry all attached and none eaten. maybe its because there are too few fry, how many eggs go bad ? also if you give them only dry food they will be less likely to eat fry.

[marg]

Hi Ben,

So you reckon I should scrap the 2 footers and concentrate on some 3 footers?

Thanks for answering - I really appreciate any input in this matter - I don't want to try to turn them into "Breeding Factories", I just want them to be happy and hopefully raise a few Grandkids for me!!.

Thanks Ben, your advice is appreciated.

Marg.

[marg]

Samir,

I would say that the last Spawn was about 60 (before they turned them into "dinner") - but that was in a Community Tank that I eventually divided it off - they let them survie for about 1 1/2 days, then Yummo!! ( little shits). It really confused me because they were being so caring, moving them from the back wall to the side wall - and then the wall "fell over", HUmpty Dumpty like (duds!!!!!).

O.K., by the sounds of it it is back to the drawing board. Sounds like 3 foot tanks are the go.

I will wait to see what Crocky says (Guru), sounds like that's the way to go.

Marg.

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Marg,

I agree with the posts thus far but personally I wouldn't go to 3ft tanks as there is more chance for fry to get lost. My breeding tanks are 2ft wide by 19in high by 18in deep, about 120 litres. Also you are changing less water and using 33% less water conditioner etc, 33% less work too.

Have you ever watched your pairs to see which fish is the culprit? I have found that more often than not it is the male but not always. I have a Gold Melon pair that are ESOB's (egg eating son of a bitch) so now when they lay I let the male do his job and then cage him for a few days.

If you can get hold of some plastic garden mesh, it's the green stuff made up of about 2inch squares and make a cylinder big enough for him to be comfortable (mine are twice the size of the fish wide) and tall enough to reach the water level. Then gently place it over the top of the fish without freaking them out too much. Weight it down with something or secure it to the side of the tank with heater suckers and let him settle in. They don't like it too much to begin with and try and get to the eggs but it doesn't hurt them, just make sure there are no sharp bits on the inside of the cage where you've secured the two edges.

Leave him in the cage until you have free swimmers and you should find that the fry will swim through the mesh and feed off of him. Once your satisfied he is not eating fry you can release him. Next batch leave him out of the cage and see what happens, if he starts to eat eggs then back in the cage he goes. It has worked for me.

Alternatively you can make a cage and place it over the eggs, plastic mesh or gutter guard I have found to work well.

I would also mention food but by the sounds of it you have that well and truly covered feeding 4 times a day. Fish are less likely to eat their eggs if their bellies are continually stuffed full of food.

Lastly, water quality. Your fish will still lay eggs in the presense of Ammonia and sometimes they will hatch but any hint of the stuff will turn your fry over anyway. Some people maintain that as long as your Ph is under 7 you're dealing with Ammonium and not Ammonia which is no where near as toxic. This is true but I have still lost fry to Ammonium and just as many so make sure your Bio is in top shape for all your breeding tanks.

The best of luck Marg, the one thing I have learned in my few years with Discus is patience is an absolute virtue lol! They are frustrating and sometimes heartbreaking so it is just as well that they are also totally addictive. HTH.
MAC

[Crocky]

Hi Marg
I have 2 pairs in common 4 foot tank it works like dream.the fish are devided by a peice of glass which is just jammed there on a angle.As I said to you i do very small w/c ,more or less suck to s**t off the bottom and replce the water 5 to 15 % a day.Marg i just about do the opposite to most other as i have found any bigger w/c then above or cleaning the glass/spounge more then once a month I have less then 20% chances of having a successful spawn.Doing it my way 95% successful,but in saying that I wouldn't do this on new set up.
Brad

[marg]

Hi Mac,

Frustrating is definitely the word!!.

The Marlboro Red and the Pigeon Blood near drove me crazy eating their Eggs, then all of a sudden laid on the back wall, got the Eggs to Wriggler stage, moved them to the side wall and continued to spit them back into that spot - they got to free swimming and Mum and Dad near went crazy catching them and spitting them back, then all of a sudden decided what the heck and promptly ate them. Took them 1 1/2 days though. Maybe next time it will be a bigger spawn and they might decide to let them live :) .

My Red and White pair had a decent size spawn however the Eggs Fungus-ed over - but the silly buggers kept fanning them for 4 days before they worked out that the Eggs were no good :roll: .

The other 3 pairs are just "Egg Eaters" but I've got Guards made up and ready for them the next time :wink: .

I understand what you are saying about the water quality - I Vacuum their tanks every day and do a large water change every 2nd day - I also keep a good eye on the Ammonia levels etc. Food is never left in the Tanks - what isn't eaten within an hour gets sucked up.

As you were saying, patience is the Key - and if I never had it before I'm slowly getting it now :lol: :lol: .

I will work on getting them some larger Tanks I think - maybe that will make them happier, and then we'll see what happens.

I'm just having a bit of a laugh at myself, musing over how this whole thing started - went to the Pet Shop and bought a 2 Foot tank to fill in an empty corner in my dining room and put some assorted Tropicals in it - went back to the Pet Shop for Fish Food a few weeks later and sighted this pretty little Blue Turquoise Discus (who is now a 12cm. fellow) and now all you see when you come to my place are Discus, Discus , Discus :lol: :lol: :lol: - all my friends think I'm crazy but I'm the happiest I have ever been :D .


Marg.

[Discus 41]

Hi Marg,
I've been taking advice from crocky on w/c and general maintenance which appears to be small w/c daily and monthly filter cleans,i'm hoping like most of us on this forum this will give me the greatest success.
keep your chin up!!!!!!! as the saying goes it won't happen over night but it will happen.good luck

Ian

[marg]

Smart feller that Crocky!

I'm not giving up - if anything their antics make me all the more determined.

I'm off to Bunnings :D

Marg.

[Crocky]

Keep an eye on your water readings,you don't want dead fish.
Brad