could this be a parasite????

[k9outfit]

First the background:
These 5 Ocean Greens arrived Monday morning (May 27), along with 3 other types, 20 fish in all. I have each variety in seperate 50 gallon tanks (36x18x18). All are eating well, feces look good. The fish all have settled in, though the Ocean Greeens are quite skittish. I have 5 tanks lined up in a row, the Ocean Greens are in the centre tank.

Water parameters: pH 6.8, Ammonia & Nitrite 0, Nitrate <5, Gh 9 dh, Kh ~1 dh, temp 88.2 F. The tanks were cycled using a fishless cycle, and were fully cycled 3 weeks ago. Maintained the cycle by continuing to add Ammonia. 20% w/c every other day with aged, heated, peat & acid treated water.

Now for my question. 2 of the Ocean Greens (had been packed in a large bag, all 5 together; each ~ 2.5" total length) had slight abrasions on their bodies; 1 only on 1 side, the other on both sides. The abrasions are on the back 1/2 of both fish, the 1 in question has it ~ 1/2" forward from base of caudal, along the lateral line. This morning, it almost looks as though there's a parasite protruding from this abrasion. Would this be possible???? The abrasion doesn't apear inflamed, though the scales seem a bit disordered in this area, with a white filament maybe around 4 mm long and about the diameter of a blood worm sticking out. It doesn't apear to be moving. I've tried to have a better look with a magnifying glass, but the fish isn't co-operating. What's the least stressful method of holding them so I can have a good look?

Should I try Melafix and see if the abrasions on both the fish will disapear? Is it possible this is some wierd parasite coming out of the fish? If so, are there any steps I can take to cure the problem and/or prevent it's spread?

Sorry about the long post...

BTW, none of the fish are flashing, therefore I'm assuming that this "whatever" isn't really bothering the fish at the moment.

[bushie]

that really sounds like anchor worm.
a horrible nasty and they spread quite rapidly.
it is very unusual to find these as they are generally related to cold water fish( koi and goldfish ).
I think I remember reading somewhere about treating with "dimilin" or something similar.
don`t take my word for it though.

could we please get other info from the specialists.

and it might be worth checking the koi and goldfish sites for info and they might have a picture that you can i.d. your prob with.

h.t.h.

bushie

[Merrilyn]

Wondering if this could be "Head and Lateral Line erosion" Doesn't always appear on the head. It can break out anywhere along the lateral line of the fish.

The white substance oozing from the hole is typical.

Any chance of a pic K9 so we can confirm the diagnosis?

[k9outfit]

Thanks for the quick responses (I think I'm resembling bushie's avatar at the moment! :shock: )

I don't think it's Head & Lateral line erosion; there really isn't anything "oozie" about this protrusion, appearing quite solid, with definite form.

Having a closer look (again! :roll: ) there seems to be a small circular patch (maybe ~1cm or less?) which is a bit darker than the rest of the fish. On 1 fish, it seems to be symetrical on both sides, whereas this one only has it on 1 side. The patch seems to be very slightly protruding when veiwing the fish straight on.

Sorry, no pics; haven't caught up with the 21st century yet, the only camera in the house being a completely manual, 25+ year old reflex camera...

Dimlin Powder - if available locally - is safe for use on Discus? Also, what would the dosage be? I found the dosage for Koi (1 gram per ton of water) leaves a bit too much room for error when calculating a safe dosage for a 50 gallon tank...

[shayesmommy]

http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html
heres a site i use for my regular fish if they have anything wrong. it includes pictures. maybe you could find a picture and referenece it here.
so people can better help you :)

[k9outfit]

Thanks for the site, shayesmommy! Checked it out, and nothing quite fits the bill.

Does the anchor worm start out by being white? The ones in the pic are quite distinctive, and unless they eventually develop to look like that from a small segment that looks like a tiny piece of white worm, that isn't it.

Could roundworms go through the body tissue? Would there be any symptoms (distended abdomen, etc.) of an infested fish?

Should I dose with Melafix to curb the chance of infection? Salt? Treat with Clout (Anchor worms, lice, leaches & flukes)? Or possibly Life Bearer (flukes & lice)?

What is the least traumatic way to haul the fish out and have a close look at this thing? Hold it on it's side in a net, in a pail of water? Would trying to remove this thing gently with tweazers be a good or bad idea?

Trying to stay calm... no need to panic yet... Right???? :|

[shayesmommy]

your welcome.
not that i would ever do it but you could catch hold it in your hand on the side you want to look at. and check it out
i have no idea what you could do.. hopefully someone will be along soon to help

oh im sending you a email right now. please reply

[Bill T.]

I would avoid melafix - in my experience it has never done any good, and possibly some damage.
Perhaps you could get a friend with a camers to come around and take a shot?
Failing that, what about taking one of the fish to a fish friendly vet?

[bushie]

if it is anchor worm, it won`t do a lot of harm in a hurry.
in all my years working in aquatic shops, I only ever came across this in tropicals two times, many, many times in goldfish though.
be sure of what you are dealing with before you deal with it.
anchor worm looks like a small piece of cotton (usually white) about 5mm long.
it does not look like a part of the fish, or ooze,etc.
more like a small white stick or as prev. stated cotton protruding from a ulcerated lump.
it starts as a reddish spot beneath a scale that slowly starts to protrude before becoming ulcerated and by then the parasite has grown its head.
the following tail (cotton) is egg casings which will spread throughout the tank if not treated
if this is an anchor worm, do not pull it out with tweazers as it will break the head off of it and cause further problems.
I have read that you can brush it with methylated spirits and it will release its hold and then pull it out but I have not done this myself.
as I said before, this is unusual in tropicals so try to count out any other possibilities first.

questions....
I`m not up to date on temp translation...
any Idea on temp in celsius?
are they rubbing now?
any further signs of infection?
any signs of prev. infections healing?
are they eating? happy? grey? shy?
any further info that you think may be relevant or even things that may not be relevant will all help.

many,many clued up people on this forum which know much more than I.

if it does turn out to be anchor worm you may be better off talking to cold water specialists as they would be more in tune with this type of parasite.

p.s. I have scalpeled these out of fish and nuked a tank with success but would not reccomend this as a cure.

p.p.s. I`m still not sure that this is your problem

[k9outfit]

Thanks for the continued interest bushie!
Not sure what to make of it.... The protrusion disapeared basically without a trace! :? The area that the scales seemed somewhat disordered in, looks almost as though nothing had happened. About all I can think of is that it was an injury (not sure what the protruding piece was) which healed quite suddenly & quickly? There's nothing in the tank that could have punctured the fish (heater & sponge filter's it), it didn't look like a bite....

I'm keeping a very close watch to see if another one of these pops up either on another fish, or on this one. If nothing turns up, I guess I just won't worry about it? :)

P.S. 88.2 F = 31.2 C; no flashing or rubbing, not shy, good colour, eating like little oinkers, basically happy & healthy as far as I can tell. Let's hope it stays that way... :wink:

[samir]

discus must always be individually packed. thats what the problem was.

[bushie]

it sounds to me like a travel injury and it would probably be best to keep a small amount of salt in with them to ward off any secondary infections.
keep an eye on them and hopefully all will be healed and healthy soon, ready to grow up big and strong and spit out little bubba discus everywhere.

#@@$%#@ people that pack discus together..............

good luck

bushie