Help - Discus went spastic, now Belly UP

[Topkath]

Help...
Just did a water change, Found fish gasping at top of tank.
Pre Water change
PH Neutral,
Temp 28
Ammonia Nil
Nitrites V Low, but detectable.
Nitrates 20ppm

SInce then, Discus just went crazy, splashing out of top of tank (thank goodness for covers, swimming crazy, bashing into sides of tank, totally nutso, now, he's upside down...

Post water change, Params similar to above, just lower nitrates and nitrites.

Whats wrong??? SOB... :cry:

[nicholas76]

Top kath

just confirming you located your fish gasping for air at the surface prior to water change?

how big are your fish? juvenile? 2inch? adults?

Id personally have the temp on 30 ,, and put in an air stone or two for extra airation asap. How big is your tank? any other fish having issues?

Consider adding rock salt now.

Leave your tank lights off and generally try not to disturb.

reasons are endless.. You may have simply freaked them,, I query the gasping for air,, disease issue maybe,,, what else can you tell us.

[Topkath]

3FT TANK
have installed air stone.
Dont have any rock salt, table variety sea salt ok?
Will put temp up to 30

yes, gasping prior to water Change
1 adult discus
1 silver shark (seems to be OK)
10 Cardinal Tetras (all at top)
10 common (lfs variety) guppies (all at top)
2 x Cats - Periodically at top then back to bottom...

My water is aged in a clean 25L drum in Garage (no car ever in garage) for about a week, with airstone and heater, treated with Ammonia, Chlorine and Chloramine remover, and PH adjusted before going into tank.

Thanks so much for your rapid response... Really appreciated.

[nicholas76]

Kath,

Im no Doctor by any means so use my advice as a general guide.

but it definetly sounds like your fish are struggling for air. airstones are a priority. Leave the temp on 30.

Dont use table salt.

When this has happened to me in the past ( eg heater blowing up causing shock, or water fouling up )

ive usually corrected it by doing a large w/c using clean aged heated water,

rock salt - get it from coles, and dim the lights

has your water discoloured at all?? white cloudy?, your ph reading accurate?

keep us posted

anyone else have any thoughts on this one?

[Topkath]

Unfortunately,

I think it's all over for big jim (discus...) Flat on bottom, breathing very slowly. Not moving at all. Very SAD... He was my first discus. Only had him for about 3 months. It's going to be very difficult to convice DH to let me buy more after this.

I've already done a 50% water change. I just hope the rest of the tank makes it. It's going to take a while to age more water too, as I'm out of Water Ager, and being flat broke this week, don't know if I can afford more.

Water is clear, I believe test results are accurate.

One possibility i just thought of. I have a nearly 3 year old, who is dead keen on feeding fish. Maybe she's put something in??? Don't know. Most of my test chemicals have child-proof lids. Dunno.

Anyway, thanks again for your help, but I think it's time to go dig a big hole.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Kath, Nick has started you off on the right track. Your fish seem to be suffering from a lack of oxygen. Did you have an airstone in there before this, or did you just add one today.

The reason I'm asking is, warm water carries a lot less oxygen than cool water, so good surface agitation is essential to turn the water over, and allow the carbondioxide gases to escape, and oxygen to enter the water.

I would always use an airstone in a 3 foot tank, with that population of fish.

Your discus has gone nuts in an attempt to escape an unsuitable environment. Hopefully he hasn't caused too much damage to himself during his mad dash, and he will recover after a couple of hours.

A little cooking salt in the water will help with the breathing. Add one heap teaspoon per 40 litres of water today, and tomorrow you can add another heap teaspoon per 40 litres. It can be sea salt, but not the "free flowing" table salt, as that has something added to it (I think it's cornflour) to make it flow freely. So rock salt, sea salt, or cooking salt will all be suitable (not aquarium salt, that's different stuff altogether).

Keep us posted, and good luck.

[Merrilyn]

Just read your post Kath. We were posting at the same time.

While he's still breathing, there's still hope, so just hang in there and turn the airstone up to flat out.

We're thinking of you Kath.

[nicholas76]

Thanks Red!

Kath ive had Discus black and side ways and survive! so dont give up yet!

[Topkath]

Well, its all over. :cry:

Just picked up Miss 5 from school, and he's no longer breathing.

Just trying to work out what may have happened. Would you consider my tank to have been overloaded maybe?

3ft tank running Eheim Ecco 2233.
Technical data
Aq. size up to approx I 200
Pump output approx I/h 500
Del. head approx Hmax m 1,0
Canister Volume l 4,0
Filter volume approx cm3 2,4 (info from eheim site)

I only added the Cardinal Tetra's about 2 weeks ago.

[nicholas76]

Kath,

dammit ! bad news sorry to hear.

things that spring to mind.

1. introduction of diseases when you got the new fish.
2. bacterial issue of some sort in your water.
3. Little or no airation.
4. Gut feeling tells me you may have experienced an amonia spike pr ph issue.

say Kath we didnt ask,,, is this a new tank how long has it been running for? is it planted if so what substrate and plants do you have?

[Topkath]

Tank has been up and running for about 4 months or so.
with 1 adult discus, 1 x 12cm silver shark, 3 cats (various sizes no larger than 10cm). Filter running for all this time. About 6 weeks ago, added 4 adult guppies and 6 babies. About 2 weeks ago, added 10 Cardinals.

Tank has about 3 small val plants, and one other plant - cant think of name - very common though. Have one small piece planted driftwood, very small amazon sword on it. Substrate is a plant (aquarium) mix, with a fine gravel layer over the top.

When I put the cardinals in, I also took the air pump out, as I needed it to help heat my aging water (for aeration to move the water around) as I was moving it from sitting in the living room in front of the tank, to the garage, and hadn't got around to getting another air pump yet.

I'm suspecting an ammonia/nitrite spike too at this stage, I guess the Discus was more susceptible to it than the rest. (HMMMMM) They are all starting to move down from the top of the tank now. NOT FAIR.

I've wanted Discus for years now, and I finally get one, and I manage to kill it within 6 months. (Good thing my kids are a bit tougher than Discus.)

Now the question is, do I want to get more. Thanks for all your help and support guys. It's been appreciated. This really is a great spot. My first thought when I saw them all acting up was - DISCUSFORUM, someone there can help!

YAY DISCUSFORUM. :wave2 Keep up the good work.

[Bill T.]

Definitly get some more - you know you want to!
Get them from a reliable source - good stock makes keeping them so much simpler!
That nitrite reading may indicate an ammonium spike which has been and gone - the question being, why?
Maybe something got into the tank such as, fly spray, disinfectant, some antibacteriel agent? Once I used a non scratch scourer from the supermarket to clean my aquarium glass - shortly afterward, you guessed it, a whole lot of dead fish. Turns out the scourer had some antibacterial agent in it which wiped out my biological filter!
I do think the discuss are more affected by ammonium than other fish.