A really honest answer please

[catcher]

I'm 9/10th's off setting up a discuc tank but I would like to ask any old hands at the hobby for a realistic answer.
If I set up a 60x24x18 inch tank with a turn over of about 6 times an hour, stocked it with approx 6 display discus, a couple of bn's and a few clown loaches. What would the real water change needs of this tank. I'm used to Malawi but I realise Discus are a different kettle of fish, so to speak. I just don't want to go ahead and do this when I may not be able to service the system as I should.
Cheers
Glenn
ps. I'm really keen to give discus a go but I'm also practicle about the upkeep.

[taksan]

2 x 50% WC's a week

[Proteus]

I would also find the Clown Loaches a new home personally

[Ben]

Listen to the person who has a tigrinus as an avatar.

50% twice weekly is the minimum.

[bushie]

it seems like everyone disagrees with me today!

but an honest answer.......

large enough tank for the fish you are keeping.

turn over of water is fine if not too much, depending on filtration types and methods.

watch your water currents, discus don`t like it.

clown loaches are fine with discus but too many and too large can become a problem, i.e out competing for food, but one or two small ones are great clean up crew.

if your not looking at breeding, no big deal with water changes.

you have obviously kept fish before...watch your water..... watch your fish.....

don`t over feed ( small amounts, often ).

30% once a week w/c.

well planted helps.

no big diff to cichlids really after all they are a cichlid....... :D

once again, .........I`m no expert.

correct me if I`m wrong!

[Joe]

it seems like everyone disagrees with me today!
<I’ll be that guy!>
but an honest answer.......

large enough tank for the fish you are keeping.
<Probably true…>
turn over of water is fine if not too much, depending on filtration types and methods.
<Turn over of water can never be too much with discus>

watch your water currents, discus don`t like it.
<Discus originated and still today are found in rivers (i.e. current) also, a healthy discus will actually enjoy the current (many people I know place power heads in their discus tanks to achieve this)>
clown loaches are fine with discus but too many and too large can become a problem, i.e out competing for food, but one or two small ones are great clean up crew.
<Sort of true…clown loaches primary diet are snails and other non-discus food (albeit they will eat what you put in there!) The majority feel that you shouldn’t keep clowns (unless you have a snail problem) with discus since they are predominantly nocturnal and quiet crazy…meaning that when your discus are suspended for the evening, the clowns will zoom around often disrupting your discus.>

if your not looking at breeding, no big deal with water changes.
I almost had a stroke with this one, I hope you are kidding…water changes and clean water are the biggest element to keeping happy, healthy, large growing discus. Most top breeders in Germany and Asia actually have “constant” water changes being performed 24-7 at a total turn over rate of 10 or more times a day (on all tanks, not just fry). True, when you have small fry, water changes become even more important, however they should be performed as much as possible even with large adult discus (larger fish-larger waste that needs to be cleaned out). A lot of people on the discus forums don’t breed, but they would definitely agree with performing large, frequent water changes.

you have obviously kept fish before...watch your water..... watch your fish.....

don`t over feed ( small amounts, often ).
<TRUE!>
30% once a week w/c.
<I guess if it works for you then it can work for anyone...but more appropriately, but often not feasible, is 99% DAILY water change.>

well planted helps.
<The more plants-the more waste-more trouble to clean. This is why most discus people keep bare bottom tanks with no decorations. Easier to maintain and keep the water clean. True, a planted tank with substrate and large discus is definitely one of the most beautiful display tank set ups around, however with the amount of work and time spent changing the water it would be very difficult, especially for a new discus keeper.>

no big diff to cichlids really after all they are a cichlid.......
<Ugh….kind of like saying there is no big difference in women!!! Every cichlid has it’s challenge, with discus being one of the most difficult. They are one of the largest yet lest aggressive. They are one of the largest, yet pickiest eaters. Some cichlids can live in a toilet bowl for a year and be fine…a discus will certainly get a disease if in poor water…>
once again, .........I`m no expert.

correct me if I`m wrong!

<The above is my opinion! I think bushie perhaps is trying to make discus keeping sound really simply to promote the hobby!?!?!? However, if a new discus keeper reads up and if nothing else, performs water changes frequently, then there is no real trick to keeping discus! Good luck.>

[catcher]

Thanks everyone,
I'm sure everyone has given their take on an honest answer, so for that I'm gratefull.
I've got the feeling that even though I'm really keen on trying Discus after years of keeping Malawi I may not be able to do them justice. I'm not one for doing things by half, it's either 100% or not at all. Bugger! :(
cheers everyone

glenn

[shayesmommy]

dont give up catcher.
they are really wonderfull fish.
you can do what works for you as long as the fish are healthy and happy and you are happy with your fish.
yes they like clean water. what fish doesnt.
what i do is i do a major clean once a week.
and then ever other day to ever three days i do a pick up poop and left over food clean.
ive read alot of people say they only change the water once a week. and other 2-3 times and others do it every single day.
everyone has there opinions on what is best. for them and there fish.
im not saying you dont ever have to change the water. yes you do . more then an average tank. but its worth it.
just read up on it lots and make sure you want to and can do it.
goodluck. and i hope you dont give up because of the discuraging remarks.

[bushie]

honest comments should not be over ridden.

<Turn over of water can never be too much with discus>
my point being that it sounds as if his filtration is up to the task, meaning more than is basically needed.any amount of excess filtration is a good thing.

<Discus originated and still today are found in rivers (i.e. current) also, a healthy discus will actually enjoy the current (many people I know place power heads in their discus tanks to achieve this)>
discus are fine swimming in currents but they do like areas of still or slow moving water to hide away.

<Sort of true…clown loaches primary diet are snails and other non-discus food (albeit they will eat what you put in there!) The majority feel that you shouldn’t keep clowns (unless you have a snail problem) with discus since they are predominantly nocturnal and quiet crazy…meaning that when your discus are suspended for the evening, the clowns will zoom around often disrupting your discus.>
clown loaches are not the ideal discus tank mates....agreed.
I have kept clowns with discus.
people I know have kept clowns with discus.
all fish still alive.

<I almost had a stroke with this one, I hope you are kidding…water changes and clean water are the biggest element to keeping happy, healthy, large growing discus. Most top breeders in Germany and Asia actually have “constant” water changes being performed 24-7 at a total turn over rate of 10 or more times a day (on all tanks, not just fry). True, when you have small fry, water changes become even more important, however they should be performed as much as possible even with large adult discus (larger fish-larger waste that needs to be cleaned out). A lot of people on the discus forums don’t breed, but they would definitely agree with performing large, frequent water changes.>
well lets look at water changes....the comment (if your not looking at breeding, no big deal with water changes.) is meant that the amount of water changes that needs to be done,is relevent to the bio load in your tank. with adequate filtration ( as it sounds like they have ) and a professional fish keeper ( as it sounds like they are ) doing regular water tests and feeding correctly,water changes can be kept in check.
we are not top breeders in germany or asia, we are home hobbyists in australia,america, britain etc,etc.
therfore 24/7 water changes,and or daily water changes are out of the question and unrealistic.
granted, there is no substitute for water changes and it is one of the most important things in keeping any fish, especially discus, but there are many many discus owners out there doing there once a week water change and have been for many many years without problems.
but absolutly, the more the better.

<The more plants-the more waste-more trouble to clean. This is why most discus people keep bare bottom tanks with no decorations. Easier to maintain and keep the water clean. True, a planted tank with substrate and large discus is definitely one of the most beautiful display tank set ups around, however with the amount of work and time spent changing the water it would be very difficult, especially for a new discus keeper.>
a well planted well maintained tank actually helps in several ways, keeping water quality at reasonable levels, breaking down waste, removing nitrates, benificial bacterial load in gravel helping with bio filtration, somewhere for discus to hide away and feel safe if disturbed, somewhere to swim through if being bullied by other discus, and if nothing else, just looking bloody fantastic in your lounge room display tank rather than a lifeless glass box. if properly set up with gravel sloping to the fronts and plants ammassed towords the back and sides, it takes less than an hour to tend to your plants, gravel clean and water change.

<Ugh….kind of like saying there is no big difference in women!!! Every cichlid has it’s challenge, with discus being one of the most difficult. They are one of the largest yet lest aggressive. They are one of the largest, yet pickiest eaters. Some cichlids can live in a toilet bowl for a year and be fine…a discus will certainly get a disease if in poor water…>
I don`t know where the women comment comes from......
has nothing to do with fish.
the point is they have kept cichlids previously therefore they are accustomed to researching and learning about they`re fishes likes and dislikes, i.e water quality, ph,temp etc etc. therefore in this way they are very similar to other cichlids.
I don`t know about you but I personally have never studied the water preferences of women!!!!!!

<The above is my opinion! I think bushie perhaps is trying to make discus keeping sound really simply to promote the hobby!?!?!? However, if a new discus keeper reads up and if nothing else, performs water changes frequently, then there is no real trick to keeping discus! Good luck.>
My point exactly.
I think too many people try to make it sound to hard when in fact it`s not.
good filtration, good general maintenance,good knowledge...
let people get into the hobby, keep a nice display tank for viewing purposes. then they will come to love their fish even more.
and then maybe decide on breeding and getting into the more in depth side of things.
don`t scare them off before they start.

imho

bushie

[shayesmommy]

bushie i like really warm almost hot, clean and refreshing water.
thats just my prefrence being a woman and all. :)

[sammigold]

Well here is my honest comment.....

I have a 4ft planted tank with 6 discus, as well as cardinal tetras, black widow tetras, 5 bolivian rams, 1 small pleco/gibby, 1 bristlenose and two clown loaches approx 8 and 10cm... (so far my loaches and my discus get along fine and keep to themselves)

I do a 30% w/c every 5 or 6 days so it averages about once a week really.... I keep an eye on all my fish and if things dont look quite right they will get an extra water change...

I have had my discus for 12 months now... I did research and I listen to everyones advice but in the end as a fishkeeper you get to know your fish and you deal with them accordingly....

and PS.. as a girl I like very hot, very soft and bubbly water...LOL :-)

[shayesmommy]

lol

[Merrilyn]

Wow, ask for honest opinions on this forum, and you're sure going to get them. Thanks everyone for your very valuable input.

Glen I think you can see from the above comments that there are several "correct" ways of keeping discus.

I have kept discus for around 30 years, and I can assure you, I have tried just about every way it's possible to keep fish.

Every tank, and every fishkeeper is different. Personally, I have my tanks stocked to capacity, and I feed very heavily, so huge water changes are essential for my tanks.

I have also kept heavily planted tanks, with just a light fish population, and I could manage to keep the nitrates under control with just one big water change per week, of 50%. The fish seemed quite happy, and grew well, but breeding activity was very infrequent, indicating that they thought conditions in the tank were okay, but not good enough to bring new fry into their world.

Increase the water changes in that tank, from once a week to three times a week, and the breeding activity was constant :?

Now, what does this tell us? Well it indicates to me that your discus will survive and grow in your tank, if you can only manage one water change a week of 50%. You must not overcrowd the tank, and you will need to be careful not to overfeed. Uneaten food or obvious fish poops should be removed a couple of times a week, by doing a quick vacuum of the substrate.

The more waterchanges you can manage, the happier your fish will be. They come from some of the cleanest waters in the world, with a very low bacteria count, and obviously that's the way they like to live, but they are surprisingly tough fish, and they can adapt, so long as conditions are not too extreme.

Give your fish what they need, warmth, good nutritious food, and clean water, and they will reward you with their good health and bright colours, for years to come.

[rsoares]

I've only keeping discus for 8 months, but I do the same as sammigold. I do about 20% water changes twice a week, but what I really do is to observe the fish, and test the water. If I observe something is not quite right I react accordingly. Of course, I don't intend to breed my discus, just to have them grow healthy and happy :)
Just a small off-topic, ladyred, being keeping discus for 30 years, what's the oldest discus you have kept?
Thanks.

[Joe]

Bushie:
I didn't mean to offend you and point taken on not over-ridding your honest opinions...I used your post not to bash, but to follow as an outline since you covered all the important topics.

Catcher: Don't be frustrated...the best way to really learn about discus is to try it out for yourself...as you can see from the post, everyone has their own way of doing things and if you can perform the amount of water changes that are necessary for your set up (based on tank size/number of fish/feedings) discus are not hard to keep IMO!

Women of the World: Perhaps I should have used the apples to oranges comparison instead of women! Every living thing is different and has different preferences and necessities for a happy life.

rsoares: I have had one discus in particular for 13 years. I've heard they can make it to 20...

[bushie]

g`day joe,
no offence taken mate.

just trying to make a point that it is not always as hard as it sounds.
I just dont want to scare people off with the "all too hard sydrome".

when the reality is,
a water check here,
a water change there
watch, look and learn.

and as they are a previous aquarist they were more than likely doing these things already.

but these are just my own honest opinions.

p.s. my missus likes her water frozen in blocks with a large shot of ouzo :lol:

[Merrilyn]

LOL love your sense of humour Bushie.

I prefer gin and tonic with my frozen water :D

[shayesmommy]

lol lets just hope catcher comes back here and reads this.
joei dont think you meant no harm, i think you just meant to give your opinion and it came out wrong.
:)

[kswong34]

Hi all,

I feel bad after read all of the comments and advise here.

I previouly had have few discus in a 3ft tank and now relocated most of them into a 6x2x2 as one pair have keep spawning in the tank for 6 months. I don't have a master test kit to test my water, I only have a pH test kit which I hardly used (not even once a month). I don't do my water change everyweeks. I think I usually did once a month if not longer. The pH of the water from the tap is ~7.6 here and I did my water change directly from the tap (with some hot water and cold water).

The pair had just spawn again abt a week ago since I moved all the other fish to the 6ft and for the first time I got fry out of them (confirmed that they are not lesbian :lol: and the male is fertile). But as they are still in the decorated tank, they lost all their fry at free swimming stage. (will set up a breeding tank soon)

But I think most of you will think I am doing the wrong thing here but IMO, I am very happy as they are healthy as. My point is, every fish keeper have their own way of keeping fish, some do it "right" and some do it "wrong". But I guess as long as the fish are healthy and you are happy, why not?

[Brilliant]

Thanks everyone,
I'm sure everyone has given their take on an honest answer, so for that I'm gratefull.
I've got the feeling that even though I'm really keen on trying Discus after years of keeping Malawi I may not be able to do them justice. I'm not one for doing things by half, it's either 100% or not at all. Bugger! :(
cheers everyone

glenn

Hey man Ive always desired to keep African's...thats just the way the ball bounces. :) If your willing to put forth the effort anything is possible. :wink:

There sure is alot of advice here looking to be from one extreme to another. :D

Some people keep planted tanks while other keep bare bottom. I think that has alot to do with why the sugestions are so different. Filtration also plays a big role here too I assume.