Need help with 1 of my discuses

[Hedphelym]

(I hope i dont do anything wrong by posting in this section)

One of my discuses has been not good the past two weeks.
i was hoping he would recover, but he doesent.

the two others are fine, and has nice colour, but this one is really pale,and showing his "stressbars", i have not put him in a separate container, to try to feed him up a little, because he's become really skinny, so skinny that i'm afraid to lose him.

in his container he leans like you can see on the images.

I dont have access to medication, i do have a JBL EasyTest 5 in 1, that's all i have at the moment that could indicate something, but that test ends nice.

all other fish is ok, and is not refusing to eat, it's this one discus only.

and i've just done a waterchange to see if it helps.

Any help would be grately appreciated.

[DiscusMad]

did it use to swim with the other discus in the tank?
how many do you have in the tank
how big is the tank and whats your water readings?

[Hedphelym]

i have three, i had to add one because of fighting.
that went well, untill the past week or so.
he does not swim alot with the others, he keeps hiding alot.

Water is ok, i checked with the JBL EasyTest.
i have 3 discus,
#1 is this one,
#2 is one almost simmilar in size, but younger.
#3 is bigger, and has the most colour, and was bought at the same time as the one in the picture here (they came from the same tank)

[Hedphelym]

he's so skinny that it looks like his eyes are gonna fall out.

[DiscusMad]

I have found that somtimes like in alot of animals that when an animal or fish that failure to thrive ends up drifting off from the group and waste away this may not be the problem in your case but to me it looks like it is there is not much we can do.

your discus could also have worms / fluke / or some sort of gastro bug.

at least it is eating and maby you should try medicating a beefhart mix for it to eat and see what happens

[Hedphelym]

i 'll just keep him in there then, and try to feed him up, i sure hope he eventually will get better.
if he has worms\fluke\gastro - should not the others show signs of it aswell?

[samir]

is it possible for you to put him in a seperate tank, also where are you located? dont give up on him yet. maybe its just stressed from bullying. keep doing water changes till you get some better advice. i think putting it in a breeder net would just stress it more. if you dont have another tank put it in the same one and put the food in two different places and keep up the water changes.

[Hedphelym]

i have another tank yes. a 33L one.
the discus is small, so that should not be any problem. i'll move him there straight away.
(the tank has been running for weeks, so it's just to move him in.)

[Waldo]

The not eating apears to a result of some sort of stress. Lets narrow down our possabilies. for right now lets keep the stress incured by keeping them very low. lets narrow it down to three posabilities.

Give us all the stat's of your tank I want to know everything from pH and temp to ammonia and nites as of right now in both tanks

1) Mates ~ Is the ok smaller fish being picked on? have we determined if the large one is a male trying to keep another male away from a female?

2) Environment ~ Are all of our parameters correct for this sp?

3) Internal ~ Does the fish have a disease, fungus, or parasite?

#1 sounds like the most possible as the other discus aren't being affected. What does the rest of the forum think?

[Hedphelym]

1) smaller ones does not get picked on, only chased once in a while, to the other side of tank or simmilar, but not often.


2) 30 degrees, plants, roots, hidingspaces, correct food, different food, both frozen and flakes.
that goes for both tanks.


3) i dont know if it has a disease, i cant see anything that makes me believe that with my naked eye.


samir:
i'm located in norway, kristiansand.

[Merrilyn]

He doesn't look at all well, does he. Is he still eating, or has he stopped now?

It may help if you could get some antibiotics for him. Metro or Flagyl is the drug of choice with discus, but you may need to go to a veterinary doctor to get it.

Discus don't cope particularly well in an isolation net. It seems to stress them. Can you move him to a hospital tank, or if not, perhaps put him back into the main tank.

[Hedphelym]

i did move him, that's no problem.
i dont know if he's eating much, i have him with some guppys, i'll move them to the main tank so that he'll be alone about the food.

i have one of those food-dispensers that works nicely with bloodworms, i'll try that a little later on today, and see how that goes.

[Hedphelym]

He does not seem to eat.. he just hides in the plant. i tried to "encurage" him to come out, but he just went back in again..

he's been there since i put him there (he was like that in the main-tank aswell).

[Waldo]

at this point I would try either frozen or live foods to trigger him to start eating. Once he has started then it would be best to start inserting some medicated foods. garlic extract injected into the foods is a great start however can be mixed with no other medications. This will help with many internal problems. Give it 1 week with that and if he is not starting to improve then use metro. Best if you make your own food and blend it in freezing or drying it and feeding it.

Lets get him eating first and I think that with a dark well planted tank he will if you do it then leave and have no movement in or around the tank.

[Hedphelym]

ok, thank you for the help.

i gave him some bloodworms, but he would not eat.
the guppyes ate it all after a while (not fast, so he had plenty of time).

is there a easier thing then to inject garlic extract?
how does it work with salt for instance?
and metro i dont know how to get a hold of, so i'll go to the petstore and ask them after work.

and i dont have the possibility to make the food myself.

[Waldo]

At this point you are not going to do any harm by trying medications. If he is not eating try an internal medication directly in the tank. Keep your fingers crossed and keep trying with foods. Garlic extract is not a cure all however it is is known to purge animals of a wide spectra of bacteria and parasites.

Outside of trying an internal medication directly in the water I have no suggestions. Best of luck keep us informed.

[Hedphelym]

what kind of medication does it need?
do i have to get hold of a vet, or can you get that in a pet-store?

and what about salt? could that be something to try?

[Waldo]

Heximita is not treatable with salt HOWEVER it will make the medication enter the body easier and ease stress of the fish.

I would go strait to metro (methrodyzinal sp?)

[Merrilyn]

It depends on which part of the world you are in.

In the USA you can get Flagyl over the counter in a pet store, whilst in Australia you need to get a prescription from your vet.

Flagyl, or Metronidazole is for bacterial infections and also to treat Hex (hole in the head). Dose rate is 250 mg per 40 lts of tank water every 12 hours, with a 30% water change before each new dose, for 5 days.

The dose can be increased to 400 mg per 40 lts in persistent cases, and the frequency increased to every 8 hours. Lights must be off during the treatment, as Metro is destroyed by light. If the fish is still eating, soak some dry food in metro and water. That way it goes straight into the gut where it does the most good, and put the remainder of the metro in the water.

Dropping the level of the water in the tank is a good way to reduce the amount of medication needed. Just make sure your filters and heater can still function properly.

I dissolve my tablets in a small amount of tank water for about an hour, before adding to the tank.

Remember, no carbon in your filters during treatment of any kind.


Hope that helps. Keep us posted.

[Hedphelym]

I will go and ask in the petstore for this tomorrow, hope it will turn out nicely.
he was outside the plant today, and he did that some days ago aswell, so i hope hë's better, he does not look as stressed as he used to, but that could just be wishfull thinking from my side.

i give bloodworms, but he still does not look like he's interested, and i have some guppys in there, so they might be the ones eating it all..

i think i'll remove them tonight, and then give food again, to really check if he eats at all.

[Hedphelym]

They had Hexa-ex at the petshop, i bought it and will try that. hope it helps.

[Hedphelym]

For now this has given positive results, it's on day 2 now, the red in his eyes are back, and he does not hide as much in the plant, now hes around the tank, and is much more relaxed is seems.
so hopefully this is the cure for it :)
i really hope so.

but untill now it's been for the better.

[Waldo]

Thats good. If he is on the road back to recovery then the next step is to get his body fat back up.

[Hedphelym]

Uhm, he still wont eat, not matter what i try to feed him, getting seriously skinny, i cant understand why he wont eat. he doesent even bother to try..

[Hedphelym]

he also keeps tilting over to his side.
as if he does not even have the energy to stay straight.

i think i might have to put him down, because he does not eat, and i havent seen him eat for weeks and now this on top of it all..

any suggestions please?

[samir]

complete the medication and try keep the water as clean as possible. they can live a long time without food. eventually it should start eating. dont give up on it yet

[Hedphelym]

ok, i will continue, it's just that it's kinda hard to watch it struggle like this.

but i will continue, and will keep the water clean, just about to do a water change right now.

[Merrilyn]

I know what you're saying. It's very hard to watch a fish go down hill. But try to give the medication time to work before you do anything drastic.

Hopefully he'll turn the corner soon, and begin eating.

[Hedphelym]

Today i saw that he has a white lump on his body, i dont know what it is, any ideas? i tried to take a picture of it, this is the best i managed.
the lump is just above the gill(?), there's a white spot there.
and it is sticking out too.


and he is still not eating at all, maybe i'm treating him for the wrong illness?

[Hedphelym]

his body is bent away from that white lump.
he only lies under the heater, and the lump is on his right side, and his body is bent towards the left side.

he just lies there, breathing is not too good it seems, and he hardly moves at all, and havent eaten a single piece of food for weeks now.

i honestly dont know what to do..

[marg]

Hedphelym,

Poor little bloke looks as if he won't last much longer. I usually believe that while there's life there's hope, but sadly I don't think so in his case - poor little guy has too many things going wrong for him and although I am usually the last to suggest it perhaps it would be kinder to euthanize him rather than let him suffer any longer.

Just my opinion. I think you have tried as best you can to save him but sometimes no matter what we do it is never enough.

Regards,

Marg.

[Hedphelym]

i was at the petstore, looking for a way to possibly cure him, but it's not.
they said that if he has not been eating for a long time it's hard to make them eat again, he hasent been eating for a really long time, and hasent touched anything the last week, for all i know he has not eaten for 3 weeks. i cant remember seing him eat for weeks.

i wont let him struggle anymore.

Thanks to everyone of you that has offered your help and suggestions, i really appreciate it!

[Hedphelym]

It's done now.
thanks for all the help you all have given.

I'll miss the little fellow..

[marg]

Hedphelym,

Sad that you have lost him but I think that you did the most humane thing. He is no longer suffering.

Regards,

Marg.

[samir]

sorry to hear about that, i was really hoping it would pull through. could you post pictures of your tank and other fish, maybe it could give us a clue to the cause.

[Hedphelym]

yes, i will, as soon as i get back from work.

[Merrilyn]

So sorry to hear that the little guy lost the battle.

I'm wondering if maybe it was some kind of tumour that was causing the problem. Fish can get tumours and even cancer, so it may not have mattered what you did. The end result was inevitable.

Just know that you did everything possible for the little guy. No one could have done more than you did.

But it's still sad.

[Waldo]

really sorry about that. You did a great job trying and show a true passion for the hobby the way you fought for him. :(