discus lying on side help

[Red Tail Shark]

went out to do my last feed tonight and he ws lying on his side when i went to move him he dint seem to have alot of control swiming out of balance anyone got any ideas on what to do



cheers Cal

[goldenpigeon]

hey mate,
it sounds like a swim bladder disorder. we need more information before i can be sure thoagh.

PLEASE NOTE: when using the illness and medications section always provide the following details: tank specs. water parameters, fish affected (how many, 1, 2, all etc) and an overview of what has been going on in the last few days (any spray cans been used near tank etc).

it is very hard for people to help you out when we have such a short description to work with. certainly the more details you give the faster we can come to a conculsion to help you and you dont get a million questions about people asking you for tank specs and water parameters etc.

just a reminder ;)

i hope we can help you out soon!

cheers
David

[Red Tail Shark]

sorry about lack of info to much going through my mind at once trying to find out what to do

tank size is 3ftby18by16
water condition is aged as i had fish living in it before i ripped them out antd put my 3 discus in only 1 is affected water is changed every 3-4 days 30% maybe a bit more but not much change water consists of to every 200litres 1cup of salt 2 teaspoons of bicarb 1 teaspoon of epson salts my water stays alkaline im going out to test it now should i put some prime in i did before i introduced them 2-3 days ago oh and they have definatly been eating as the bottom of my tank is glass and i can see what they have left behind

cheers Cal

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

Hi Red Tail Shark
Do an immediate water change of 50% and use your Prime to condition the new water.
The amouny of salt you are using in your tank seems alot.
Discus prefer soft water and salt makes the water hard.
Salt is mainly used in a discus tank for medical reasons at 1 teaspoon per 40 litres. Can you advise us of what fish you had in the tank before you put in the discus?
Heidi

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

After you have done your water change, it would also be helpful if you could post the water parameters of your tank – this will help other Forum Members to assist you. If you do not have these test kits, your Local Fish Shop should be able to perform these tests for you.

Ph
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Gh
Kh
Temp

It would also be easier for other Forum Members to assist you if you could answer the following questions.

How long has your tank and filter been in operation?
How many discus are in your tank?
How long have you had your discus?
What age are your discus?
What and how many other occupants are in your tank?
What sort of filtration do you run on your tank (litres per hr)?
What additives do you put into your new water?
What are you feeding your discus?
How many times a day do you feed your discus?

If you can include a picture, that would also be a big help.

Heidi

[Red Tail Shark]

thanx for the info i had mainganoes in there before
what can i use to soften the water
i have done a water change not quiet 50% and treated with prime 5times normal dose just in case its an amonia spike
didnt realise about salt was using purely as a preventive as i make my change water in a 200litre drum i treat with a water conditoner put in a cup of salt, 2 teaspoons of bicarb and 1 of epson salts i also airate and heat the water
looks like i might need to have a separate water change drum for these guys


cheers Cal

[samir]

you don't put a cup of salt in a 200 litre drum. discus dont need any salt at all.i add about 4-5 teaspoons for about that much that too only when they are moved around and get stressed. i hope the water change fixes the problem, it usually does in most cases.

[Red Tail Shark]

sory must have been typing last message at the sme time as u where Heidi

ph is 7.2

sorry dont have the other test kits as yet on my next to get list

temp 26degrees

tank has been in operation for 6months or more

3 discus in the tank

had discus for about 4-5 months

age unknown bought from a LFS at about 5-6cm guessing and there at about 8-9cm now


only other occuppants are some maingano fry in a fry saver

filtration is 1 sponge filter and 2 large modern type box filters all air driven


feeding them a mixture of wardleys premium flake and hbh gowth and colour and the occasional blood worm and nutrafin tropical fish flake

i feed them 1-2 a day morning then night or one or the other

i moved these guys from one tank to another the tank they came from was identically kept water conditions but it was at 28degrees and the other was at 26 degrees but i did have them in a bucket and introduced some of the water from the tank they where goigng into and let them sit in it for about 15mins

working on a picture

cheers Cal

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

It seems as though you have been keeping African Cichlids - which like hard alkaline water. For an african tank that amount of salt would be fine.
Discus are an American Cichlid who need to live in soft acidic water.
Let us know what area of the world you are from and someone maybe able to give you approx water parameters on your local water supply. In the mean time, just dont add any salt into your water, unless it is for medical reasons at 1 teaspoon per 40 litres.
Heidi

[Red Tail Shark]

should i do a water change now with out the salt

and is there anything can use to soften the water

what would a good ph level be to keep these guys at

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

How long ago did you do your last water change?
How is your discus looking now after the last water change?
I am only worried about stressing your fish even more with another water change so soon.
Were your discus previously living in a tank with that much salt? If so, the salt may not be the problem.
You may want to increase your temp to 28 aswell. Discus prefer the warmer water.
You tap water should be soft enough without doing anything to it and your Ph seems to be fine at 7.2. Discus would prefer a Ph around 6.5, but can comfortably live in 7.2.

[Red Tail Shark]

last water change would be about an hour ago

he or she is not looking real sharp :cry: put my hand in to see if itt would move to no avail still breathing but just its weird because if anything the other 2 seem really good (touch wood) to the point where there inquizative when i went up to the tank to check n the other

the tank they came from wasnt to start with but i had done about three water changes introducing it over say the last 2 months

i have put a heater in to bring up to 28 degrees

so when making up my next change water for them just tap water with the the normal tap water conditioner and thats all ???

[samir]

are you saying you did 3 water changes in two months ???

[Red Tail Shark]

probaly closer to 6 weeks i said 2 months just in case my internal calender was out a bit as having, a now 4 week old baby in the house will do to even the toughest of us, but around that. The tank they where originally in was a 4ft Aquaone tank which was planted out reasonably well and they only got fed every2-3 days and there was only them and 1 angelfish and a couple of bristlenose in there
not sure if your familiar with these tanks but they have a big biological filter built on to the back of them

cheers Cal

PS sorry if my posts are not reading the best im doing what i can but fatigue is setting in

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

Its a shame this is happening now whilst the experts in this area are all sleeping.
I can only make suggestions but please note that I am not an expert.
I would do another water change now, using tap water only and your water ager and conditioner. When putting the water in, make it really slow as your fish are probably really stressed at the moment.
If you can not do this now, do it first thing in the morning.
I too am getting sleepy, so good luck and I will check in with you when I wake.
Heidi
p.s. welcome to the forum and congrats on your new baby.

[Red Tail Shark]

think ill leave till morning on the basis my tap water will be to cold and i wont be able to heat if quick enuff and as u say it may just stress them more plus i too is just a little sleepy thanx for all your help and advice very much appreciated and ill let u know how well or bad it goes in the morning

cheers Cal

PS thanx for the congrats on both topics :D

[Red Tail Shark]

have been out to check on patient still alive but still lying on its side on the bottom of the tank is there anything else i can do besides a water change

cheers Cal

[HAN 'd' Aquariums]

Morning Cal
Have you done the water change yet?, If so, how long ago and how much? and is your patient looking better or still the same?

In order for the more experienced forum members to assist you, they are really going to need these water parameters:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Gh
Kh
I would suggest a visit to your LFS to buy these tests, or take a sample of your water down there and get them to test it for you.
Sorry I can not be more help to you at the moment.
Heidi

[Red Tail Shark]

no change in condition just about to do water change been waiting for the water to warm up, im going to go off and get the water tested asap

once again thanx for the help last night

cheers Cal

[Red Tail Shark]

i have taken the discus out and put him in a bucket of the water he was in ,in the tank and will slowly do water changes through the day to bring him back to the level where it should be

the other 2 discus are still doing fine
before i placed them in this tank 2 had paired up and successful hatched some eggs but the fry didnt last hence the moe into a tank of there own but i wasnt able to discern out of the three the 2 that had paired off so i put them all out im wondering if the pair are the happy 2 and they gave the other guy a bit of a flogging???

does this sound plausible any body who has more experince let me know what they think please all help much appreciated

Cheers Cal

[samir]

well maybe its just bullying then. probably stressed out. i think it should be okay if seperated from the other two. still check your water though doesn't hurt.

[Red Tail Shark]

Sad news to report my poor little discus passed on last night :( oh well these things happen. but i can gladly report the other 2 are doing reallly well by all appearances eating well very inquizative when im near the tank the come right up to the front


thanx once again everyone for your help
cheers Cal

[Merrilyn]

thanx for the info i had mainganoes in there before
what can i use to soften the water
i have done a water change not quiet 50% and treated with prime 5times normal dose just in case its an amonia spike
didnt realise about salt was using purely as a preventive as i make my change water in a 200litre drum i treat with a water conditoner put in a cup of salt, 2 teaspoons of bicarb and 1 of epson salts i also airate and heat the water
looks like i might need to have a separate water change drum for these guys


cheers Cal

Hi Cal, so sorry to hear about the loss of your fish. Could have been a number of things. Anything from a swift bacterial infection to the fish hitting it's head on the side of the tank. Sadly sometimes our friends die, and we are left with no real explanation.

You will definately need a different water drum for these guys. The addition of salt, bicarb-soda and epsom salts are totally unnecessary for discus. With africans you need hard water with a high pH. Your discus are just the opposite. They need soft water with a lower pH.

Did you manage to get the test kits. They really are essential with discus.

Test your tap water, by filling a clean glass straight from the tap (don't add anything), then wait 24 hours, and retest. Your water will probably be fine without adding anything to it, other than dechlorinator at the recommended rate.

If you have rocks or gravel in that tank, they may also be making your water hard. Whilst discus can 'survive' in hard water with a high pH, they don't thrive. Some of the gravels and rocks sold for african tanks will dissolve calcium into the water, and make it hard, and unsuitable for discus.

Better to have a bare bottom tank, with just some driftwood in there to begin, then slowly, add some sand and a few plants if you wish.

Good luck with the remaining two fish.

[Red Tail Shark]

i have organised another drum its setup and operational the bottom of my tanks most of them any way are bare bottom tanks much easier with the maintainance havent aquired test kits yet will have too wait for next pay
with plants how do they go in sand or do they need to go in gravel????

keep the info coming the more i get the more i learn

cheers Cal