Please Help - Sick Discus

[Rose Red]

We have two discus, both have been turning black consistantly, they have a white film over their bodies, one more than the other. They also seem to get fins stuck to the sides of their bodies. Their colour does come back for short periods, they swim around and then hide again and their colour turns black again, their breathing is also very shallow.

Water change done tonight. Temp 30+, PH approx 6.8.

Have added Tetracycline as per instructions and also Protech

They appear to match forums explaining pathogens (?) and also plague.

I'm very new to this and unfortunately have not even been instructed on amonia levels etc by the aquarium we purchased our fish from.

Can someone please provide some advice, have we done the right things so far, what can we do to help the fish????

Oh and does turning off the lights make any difference (read it in one of the posts).

Many thanks. :( :( :( :(

[Rose Red]

I'd really appreciate some help. I'm trying desparately to save my discus. :( :( :(

[Seaview]

it depends on what has casued them to get stressed, when they stress they go black and then develop fungus. I would personally use some sort of a general cure medication, something like malachite green. Do lots of small water changes and keep the dosage rate up. Unfortunatley if you have an unhealthy tank (ie ammonia) no matter how much medication you put into the tank your fish wont do well, so the small water changes every day will hopefully bring your tank back to a stable condition and then the medication will fix and fungus the discus would have developed. If you use malachite green then yes turn your lights of as light oxidizes the malachite so it wont be very effective.

[Inspiringfish]

I'm not sure if you've indicated your experiencing ammonia. If you are, ammonia detox will buy you some time until you can figured out the reason for the spike. Then do water changes until it is corrected.

I was just given this advice by the forum. Still dealing with it. The ammonia detox has done well for the fish. They're doing fine.... Still reducing the ammonia. :(

[Rose Red]

Thanks guys will look into the products suggested.

All other fish, black tip sharks (2), ghost knife fish (1), gourami (sp?) (2) and tetras are fine (except for the tetra that died due to the temp I'm guessing). All are eating well, no changes. It's just the discus.

I mentioned amonia because many of the post regarding sick fish mention levels of amonia, kh, ph etc. My LFS did not provide advice on any of this so I have absolutely no idea what the levels are (other than the ph).

I plan I visiting the LFS again tomorrow and asking lots of questions about these levels, how I check them what they need to be.

In the meantime I'm just trying desparately to keep the fish alive until I can figure all this out.

[sammigold]

Hi Rose Red,

If you are going to the LFS I would suggest that you take in some of your tank water in a container and ask them to test the water... get them to do the following at least:

PH
KH
GH
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

post the results on here and some of our members should be able to help you out..

You should ideally have zero ammonia and nitrites and a small amount of nitrate. If your water shows traces of ammonia or nitrites then that could be the problem

How Long have you had the tank running?

How long have you had the discus for...are they new to the tank? or have you added any new fish in with them?

A possible reason for the symptoms you describe is a dramatic change in water conditions particularly PH and ammonia levels which can cause the slime coat to look like whitish and then as if it is peeling off.
The discus will go black if they are particularly stressed.
Keep in mind that this is just a possibility it could be something else... ie. fungus, or parasites...

Are they eating?

sorry am asking heaps of questions but the more you can tell us the more people can help... also is it possible to post a photo of them...

[Rose Red]

Thanks Sammi, I actually appreciate all the questions. I will definately take a water sample and ask the LFS to check those levels.

The tank has been running for approx 6 months, we got two Rose Red approx 3-4 months ago. We got another Discus (bred from wild African discus by the LFS owner) approx 2-3 months ago. We originally thought 2 Angels we had were stressing out the Discus so we returned them to the LFS on Sat just gone. The Discus have been turning black since about Thursday last week.

There are no new fish, nothing new added to the water.

No they don't appear to be eating and they aren't anywhere near as active as what they normally are.

Will try and get some pictures tonight. Thanks again.

[Merrilyn]

Hello Rose Red, welcome to the forum. So sorry to hear you're having problems. Discus can be trick to start with, but get things right for them and you'll find they live for years.

Okay, just a few observations. The tetracycline you added will have wiped out your bio filter. It kills all bacteria, both good and bad. That means you have no bio filtration running in your tank at all now, and nothing to convert the ammonia, for the fish droppings, into nitrite and then into the less harmful nitrate.

Have you been using a dechlorinator when you do your water changes?

From the symptoms you describe, it sounds like pH burn. Discus will show this pretty quickly when the pH begins to drop, because of their unique slime coating. Unhappy discus turn dark, and produce lots of slime to try to rid the body of the irritant.

Now, some suggestions for you.

Do a water change immediately, or 50% or more. Your water will be full of ammonia, and that coupled with a low pH will be stressing the fish even more. Collect your sample of tank water before you do the water change, and mark it clearly. You also need to collect another sample of water after you do the change, for comparison by the fish shop. Collect the samples in a very clean and scrubbed jar or bottle (soft drink bottles are great) or in a clean plastic bag.

We want the fish shop to perform the tests mentioned by Sammi, as above. Then you should purchase for your own use, a pH test kit and an ammonia test kit, at the very least. If you can also manage a nitrate test kit, that would be good too.

Unfortunately your tank is going to go through a full cycle while the beneficial bacteria build up again, so be prepared to do daily water changes for the next two weeks, and perhaps buy something like "Prime" from the fish shop. That dechlorinates the water, and prevents the ammonia from becoming toxic and killing your fish during the cycle.

So, in a nutshell, collect water sample.
Do a 50% water change tonight.
Collect another water sample for testing by fish shop.
Purchase Ammonia, Nitrate and pH test kits so you can monitor your tank's cycle.
Do another 50% water change tomorrow, and add cooking salt at the rate of 1 heap teaspoon per 40 litres of water.
Day 3 do another 50% water change, and add a further 1 heap teaspoon of cooking salt per 40 litres of water. Maintain that level of salt in the water i.e. 2 heap teaspoons of salt per 40 litres, for the next week. It will help with the slime coat of the fish, and reduce the chances of nitrite poisoning as you tank goes through the cycle.
Maintain daily water changes of about 20% for the next two weeks.
At that time, test your tank for ammonia (should be zero by now) and nitrate (should have some reading, even fairly low, about 5 ppm).

All the time your tank is cyclying over the next two weeks or so, check your ammonia levels daily. If you begin to see a huge rise in ammonia (remember it should be reading zero in a cycled tank) do an immediate large water change, and add your Prime at each water change.

Sorry, I know this seems like a lot of work, but it will benefit your fish, as well as make your tank suitable for the fish to live in again. Don't add any antibiotics to the tank at all, just the salt and lots of clean water. Discus have a marvelous immune system, and have the ability to cure themselves if given a chance.

When you go to the fish shop tomorrow, ask him if you can have some used filter medium from one of his healthy tanks, and put it in your filter. It will give your bacteria a real boost, and shorten the tank cycle time.

[Rose Red]

Thanks for all your advice LR, I will be picking up all those kits tomorrow, as the LFS is less than 10 mins down the road I was thinking of taking the discus with me - is this an option??

Going to try and post a photo, if it works I'll post more.

One of the discus now has white faeces, does this change things any??

[Rose Red]

don't know that this helps much but again, all advice is appreciated.

All plants taken out of tank (6ft x 2ft x 2ft). 50% water change completed (unfortunately LR I didn't read your post until after and therefore didn't get a 'before' water sample).

Noticed that ghost knife fish now has a long white line running the length of right side - coincidental?