Ich!!!! is this med ok for my plec and loaches and discus?

[sammigold]

Hi, My clown loaches have white spot.... (@#@$$@$@#!)

So far, they are the only ones showing symptoms but I will have to treat the whole tank to be sure.....

Now I have this stuff called Ichaid.. it has copper sulphate and malachite green as the main ingredients.... I have read that I should treat at half dose for scaleless fish such as loaches and plecs of which I have both in this tank....(the bottle itself gives me no information)

Will this stuff be ok with my discus as well..... I have made no additions to this tank except for a plant.... tell me I am not peed off.... AAAAAAHHHH! :cry:

Please tell me if this will be ok for me to use...if anyone has used it before.

[taksan]

It will likely kill them ....
Only use Protozin for loaches and only use it at a 1/3 dose (forget what it says on the bottle)
Raise your Temp to 30c (add airstones) to shorten the Ich's life cycle.
Clown Loaches die from White spot and die often from the treatments.

[sammigold]

Taksan, I rang the actual company that makes this med and asked them... they said it should be fine but to dose at half to 3/4 dose to be totally safe .... anyway I dosed them at a half dose... and kept a very close eye on them....

This morning they are still swimming around happily... (thank god)

I separated them and the plec and b/n from the main tank so as to avoid having to treat my discus unless absolutely necessary.... (imagine me trying to catch the rotters in a planted tank!!!! I did though without causing too much destruction! LOL)

Now its just a matter of observation and eradication!! (of the parasite not the fish!!!)

[sammigold]

Just thought I would update.... everyone healthy and happy... so if people ever want to use Ichaid and are worried about their scaleless fish.... I have used it at a half dose and my fish... 2 clown loach, one b/nose and 1 plec/gibbi are all still alive...swimming around happily... without any spots!!!

[Merrilyn]

That's such good news Sammi. Thanks for the update.

[shayesmommy]

i thought the best method was to raise your temp to about 86 plus slowly and you use a salt treatment. its the best and healthest way to treat .. esspecially since you dont use medicines?

[Waldo]

I'd agree.

Scaless fish are more seceptable to ich however they are easier to treat with conventional treatment.

Ick is very predictable. it is normally stress induced and even has a time frame from the stress that it appears noticeable. In shipping it's day three you will see some spots around the fins and often gills. If a box comes in or was treated poorly during shipping it will often happen. if you salt boxes you see fish were struggling with hyper salinity you shouldn't have a problem. Pre mix salt before adding it to the tank as Brine is often an overlooked problem in treating fish with salt. The other case where you will see ick is if water quality is poor. This can slowly decrease the fishes ability to fight infection. If there are shy fish and you add fish that are territorial or aggressive you might stress the fish.

If you get a stubborn strain of ich make sure you take out media before medicating. Last thing you want is to be on day one again with your media and adding medications to an established tank will do just that. I have used malachite green and acriflavin with all sorts of fish at half dose and using salt.

[sammigold]

Shayesmommy: The reason I didnt use salt is because the two affected fish were scaleless as were the other two most likely to get it being at groundlevel.... Have read that these guys are intolerant to salt so didnt want to take the chance!
even though I still was scared medicating even though assured by the manufacturer that it would be ok...
I am a big advocate of salt and avoiding meds if possible but didnt want to lose these 4 guys as not only would they be expensive to replace, I have grown attached to the little spunks...:-)

[Phlipper]

The other important aspect of White Spot treatment is to increase the water current, as strong a water current as possible.The White Spot parasite at the infectious stage is a free swimming parasite { Tomite } it is not a strong or fast swimmer so needs to have gentle flowing water to latch onto a fish, so by drastically increasing water current it makes it very difficult to do this. If the parasite does not latch onto a new host fish within 2 days it will die and break the cycle.

This is not the only treatment naturally, raising the temp and appropriate medication is also esential, but increasing water flow is an important part of treatment. 8-)

[Merrilyn]

Thanks for that information Phil. I didn't know that, but it certainly makes sense.

[Waldo]

It's typically not salt that fish are not intolerable to it's Brine. By simply throwing salt into the tank if you observer there are ripples from where the salt is reacting with the water. This is a chemical reaction as aposed to a physical reaction and is called "Brine". The brine will typically stay at the bottom where we see the fish that have described "problems". Brine in aspects of all fish can be harmful however is easily fixed. Premix your salt in warm water. When you poor the mix into the tank do so where the curent in greatest so that the salinity is raised even throghout the tank. :)

[shayesmommy]

oh i didnt know that. i just read lots of places that raising the temp and adding a little salt. works.
just trying to help. i have never seen a scaless fish so i know nothing :oops:
sorry

[sammigold]

Waldo: that is very interesting information to know... in the case of the scalesss would you half dose salt usage... (I always dissolve my salt first and pour in front of water outlets)

Shayesmommy: Dont worry, your point was very viable and as you can see we have all learnt something as a result...:-) I reckon you have seen scaleless fish just havent realised... some common guys that are scaleless are Bristlenose catfish and Plecostamus/gibbys (they are armoured instead) also clown loaches and I think ghost Knife fish are too.... Dont ever worry about querying things as that is what the forum is for.. we can all discuss different treatment Ideas and learn from each other.. I am very glad that you made your comment otherwise I would never have learned from Waldo about the "brine" issues.. now I have something to research about further and may use salt in the future with my scaleless darls.. so Thank you1 :-) :-)

[Waldo]

It's not necisarily the fish it's where the fish spends most of it's time. most scaleless fish are bottom dwellers and seeing when people poor salt in it stays on the bottom those are the fish that are going to have the most problems. You'd be surprised what low gravity (talking fractions) that regular protozoa like ich are incapable of dealing with. however the duration that they can withstand the infavorable conditions is a bit longer. I'll look at my sources again and post the actual numbers if I can find them.

[shayesmommy]

i have only used salt once and i disolved it for like and hour and poured it into the stream from the filter? is that like the same thing your talking about? Just so i know if i ever treat ich. which i hope not to :P

[Waldo]

Bingo. I have witnessed no deaths resulting from adding salt correctly. Even with scaless fish.