RSG and Leopard pair

[Squid]

Been trying to get some Tefe RSG's and some Asian RSGs to pair off for a while now. Had suspected female and males in breeding tanks trying to force them on each other but to no avail. I put them all in a discus community tank for the winter and after a water change, the mother of all discus orgies erupted.

Ben - you'll be happy to know that the male Tefe RSG I got off you is now married, but his old girlfriend just cant let him go. The female Tefe RSG I got off Ben just hangs around and annoys the newly weds constantly. I'm starting to think they are a breeding trio, as she has bred with him before! He's now ditched her for the new broad. Hope you enjoy the pics.

Squid

[Ben]

Great Photo's Tony!

looks like a wonderful threesome!
:D


Cheers
Ben

[Squid]

Heres another shot of that nosey Tefe RSG female just not giving up. Plus some fry photos.

Squid

[sammigold]

thats so cute.... she just doesnt want to let go.....

[barramundi]

Hey Squid nice photo's mate, just a thought i wonder would all 3 rear the fry if any came along? Also did both females lay.

Poped into Paty's today those leopards are real nice and the 2 blue dimonds also,the problem is i'm working across the road from there and i don't know how long it will be befor they come home with me!!

john

[Squid]

Hey John - I checked the literature and only one certified case of a coloney breeding in discus has been documented by 'science'. There have been cases, especially wild fish, where certain females will look after their mates young in a community tank. But remember, scientists are mostly weeners who's inferiority complexes forced them into a life of academia to try and prove themselves (using statistics), so we should ask Ladyred or Ben or anyone else who's 'in-the-know' about this. I reckon NO. Only one female layed. Better be quick at Pattys, because those Leopards are very good quality - get in quick (no I'm not interested this time, but I know some are)

Squid

[ozarowana]

Nice fish.

What's the background on the Tefe RSG?

[barramundi]

Squid Interesting mate could you be the next documented case if all went well?

Poped into Pattys and picked up a blue dimond and a leopard but is it realy a leopard as both of them had small fine red lines as well as spots i thought leopards just had spots.

john

[Squid]

Ozarowana - I got the RSG Tefes from Ben who got them from Oxheart. They are F1's and you can tell by the lack of black banding surroundin the 'D' of the fish. I've found that from wild fry, only about 5% keep the adults colouration. Fish in the wild have a much better chance of survival up to the 2-3 month stage (unlike in a tank environment where we tend to lose a fair few around the 3-5 week mark). After that their numbers decrease dramatically through predation (in the tank ours dont!), unless they can get a good spot in the school. All comes down to colouration and dominance. Unfortunately in our tank set-ups, we loose some really good fish at an early age, so the number of good specimens in a F1 batch is low. These are still fairly good specimens for F1's though.

Barra - I'll have to come around and check out this Leopard. It wasn't colouring up too well in the shop because of all the bullies. I guess your now $160 poorer!

[ozarowana]

I was trying to determine what filial the Tefe was, as it didn't look wild. It is very intriguing that they lose the black rim in one generation. This is an interesting article

http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=19

It's also very interesting that you have noticed only a small percentage of a wild x wild mating produces fish looking like the parents. Have you found this to hold true for all the wilds you have bred?

[Squid]

Ozarowana - that was a great read. It sums up my thoughts exactly on the colouration thing. Marketing is what gives all these fish their great names! Anyway - the Tefes are F1 only. I have noticed that the circumference black bar disappears in some fry, but can be retained by some - never usually as defined as the parents. You still get some weird genetic throughbacks with wildxwild fry. Some of my browns come from out with red spots anf heckel like prominant central bars - and look nothing like the parents. Heckel (pineapple and blue faced) seem to have a bit less genetic variation - a lot of their fry are little clones of the adult. A good mate of mine tried an experiment a few years ago, and tried to develope a brilliant blue line by crossing blue Heckel male with a royal blue type wild caught fish. The dominant fry looked good but had no prominant central bar (some did but not all). I have a pair from those same bloodlines and also some that I've purchased from a breeder up here in Townsville. The central bar has come back in one generation of fry - and yet not seen in any of the other batches from the same parents. This eminds me - I nearly failed genetics at Uni because it blew me away. Its all witchcraft!

Anyway - heres a photo or two of the central bar throughback - these are the great, great, grandkids of the original pair.

[ozarowana]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It's all very intriguing.

Food for thought in regards to people that hate discus because they're hybrids. :roll: