so depressed

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

i went to the LFS today and this is what happened:
i went to buy my gravel and the owner of the store told me not to get the white gravel that i wanted because it will raise my pH levels and the white will cause me to lose colouration in my fish.....

then he asked me what fish i was planning to have and i said discus,his reply to this was the pH levels are to high where we live,7.8 i live in caringbah south SYDNEY!!!
he said it is really hard to constantly keep pH around 6.5 he told me it was to much effort to keep discus thats why they dont sell them.

ok, i have had my heart set on discus for so long now!!!
this has really bummed me. i have bought most of the stuff i need
i spent the whole w/e sanding and primeing my tank to be sprayed
i spent $250.00 on my backround alone!!! and now im told its to much effort to keep discus......

:cry: :cry: :cry:

can someone please please help me out?

:idea: how does peat in the cannister filters work?
is that an option?
please explain?

[wickedglass]

hiya :)
it might come as a shock to you, but your local fish shop guy may not be jesus after all. once, long ago I thought this was the case, but now, having heard a multitude of opinions on the same subject I've come to the conclusion that everyone has their own experiences.
discus will do fine in a PH of 7.8, they're quite hardy fish in regards to water parameters. 7.8 PH is not where they come from however, and if you buy discus from water with a more acidic (say 6.5) reading make sure you introduce them to the more alkaline water gradually, over a few hours (ie put the bag in your tank and fill it up with tank water bit by bit), or change your water to suit them. water hardness is another matter, although discus will also thrive in water that's relatively hard. again, it's in the way you approach it, and slow and easy is the key.
there's many ways to make water softer, though. one way to lower the carbonate hardness (kH) is to boil the water. this boils out the chalk content. another is, as you said, peat (it's definitely an option) ... I use peat in my tanks. peat will soften and acidify your water, but it's not a very quick process. many people make peat tea (ie boil the peat and add the extract to the tank). there's also a product called mutacal ... it's a resin which will attract the minerals, etc, found in hard water. every couple of weeks the mutacal can soaked in a heavy saline solution, which cleans it out and reactivates it ... so it's pretty handy. another way to go is reverse osmosis filtration. this will also make the water softer.
the way I use peat is to sew pockets out of filter floss, fill them up with peat, and sew them shut. then I put it into my canister filter. that way, if you're using pelletised peat, it makes filter cleaning less of a hassle. takes about 5 minutes to sew a peat bag. make sure though, that you boil the peat a little first, just to get rid of nasties first. I keep my peat for up to around a month before changing it.
back to the PH, if you want to change your water to suit the discus there are buffer solutions available (eg discus buffer), which when used will keep the water at a stable 6.5 PH or wherever you want it sitting at (for my very low PH apisto tanks I use buffer and peat in conjunction .... seems to work ok).
as for gravel .... dark gravel would be my personal preference, it shows up the colours of the fish much better, so that's about the only thing your lfs guy said that I agree with.
as for the other stuff ... ve hav zer vayz of making it all vork!!!
don't panic, look around the forum, if the information you want isn't already there, ve vill hav to interrrrogate zem ... nicely!

where there's such a will to keep discus, there's always a way :)

[Nathan]

use peat an thatl keep your ph down, and for hardness add a peice of driftwood an itl soften the water.

nathan

[endless]

If your thinking of keeping pigeon bloods i would stay away from dark gravel as this will increase the amount of peppering in your discus keeping all else constant. I would suggest using pool filter sand.

[Proteus]

Please PM me with more details. I live in Miranda and have kept Discus for years with white gravel/sand.

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

no i wasnt thinking about getting pidgeon bloods.
i was thinking of getting blue snakeskins.

thanks though.
i think im going to go for the darker gravel now.

still kind of confused about the peat thing.....
i know its a good thing to use it to lower pH but how do i go about putting it in my 2 aquaone 1200 cannister filters?

[Proteus]

LNTD, go with the gravel you want.

I can recommend some good places to get the stuff YOU want within the Shire.

I wouldnt really worry about peat either. although our water is 7.8pH from the tap, it has very little carbonate hardness in it which means the pH will naturally lower very easily.

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

i just PM you then Proteus
sorry was writing the PM when you posted.

thanks

[Xtreme]

Hi,

Very sorry to hear that you were given some 'iffy' information by a local aquarium. :(
Discus are great fish to keep, we stock them, white and coloured gravel as well.
If you would like some good advise or any help at all, we will be happy to see you!
Our address is 11/136 Taren Point Rd, Taren Point.

Cheers and chin up! :)

Rebecca

[Proteus]

I will comment on this further, but am disgusted as this advise was given from the person who claims to be the "pre eminant expert on aquarium fish in Australia"

As per the Xtreme post, they are just up the road from you know where.

Aside from Xtreme, SLS also have a large range of Discus in stock at all times.

[ellwa]

this is much the same story I got from two of my LFS's this time last year when I started to think about converting my african tank to plated discus.

I have foudn that often the people in the stores don't want to help, or are unwilling because of previous failures they've had with one type of fish in the past.

I honestly believe that keeping a planted tank looking amazing, stocked with discus to be easier than keeping a boring old african cichlid tank, with a bunch of agressive fish, no plants, and some old rocks.

There is a wealth of information on getting your water parameters perfect, don't always listen to the fellows in your LFS.

My girlfriend always says I should just go and talk to the people in the aquarium store about what to do in my tank, and gets all upset when I tell her that I don't trust people in stores, as a general rule, because they all seem to know heaps about keeping africans, but no idea about keeping anything else... especially plants... and especially about getting the right about of light for your plants...

Good luck, Hope we can help.

ellwa.

[Inspiringfish]

I agree, the people in the stores have alot of questionable information. But,, that's why you all are so specal :D .

No hugs, please. We are all just poeople raising some of the most gorgeous fish in the aquatic world.

By the way,, mate (is that right, "mate") what's up with all you experts from Austrailia??? And, is "mate" a male or female??? or both??

[Proteus]

By the way,, mate (is that right, "mate") what's up with all you experts from Austrailia??? And, is "mate" a male or female??? or both??


I guess we cant help it if we are always correct, therefore making us experts... (lol, only kidding)

As for calling someone 'Mate', it can be both for the blokes and sheilas...

OMG, how much of an okker do I sound like.

[Proteus]

Back on the topic...

This sort of thing makes me furious, BS info given by people that have no idea.

Fact, this person does consider themselves to be an expert, as per various talks they have done, and various video productions that have been produced.

Fact, the shop in question has had Discus before, IMHO they were some of the poorest condition Discus I have seen in a shop for years.

Fact, If the water is not appropriate in this area, well geesh, I must be lucky (I live in the same area).

As for the white gravel, there are several options, being regular white crushed quartz (which unless something has changed overnight is enert) then there is pool filter sand, which is quartz based as well. Obviously marble chip and coral sand are not options due to buffering.

As stated before, the pH of 7.8 is only that from the tap, and very soon naturally lowers. Waste and detritus in the tank act as a further buffer which brings your pH down, so what happens down the track, is your tank will sowly drop to 6.6 - 6.7 then you do a waterchange and it regulates the pH as it would naturally increase the overall level. Monitoring your pH can help determine when water changes are needed, both from a nitrate removal point of view, and secondly to maintain a stable pH.

As for information from LFS's, 99% of stores try and do the right thing, bear in mind a lot of advice is based on personal experience, and what may work for one person may not work for everyone, however giving blatantly incorrect information is WRONG.

[Merrilyn]

I'm sure most people in Aquarium Shops are well meaning, but unless they actually have a special interest in discus, you can't always rely on their advice. Maybe they themselves had a bad run with discus, trying to keep them in the same conditions as african cichlids.

That's where forums like this are so valuable. We KNOW you can't treat discus like africans, and we also know the best way to keep them happy and healthy. Discus are not a difficult fish to keep, but they do have certain requirements. Get that right, and they'll live happily for years.

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

my depression has eased......lol :cry: :( :) :D :lol:

im voting Proteus for the new owner of my LFS!!! hahahaaa
no seriously i just want to thank everyone for there input.
im getting discus and this was just a bump in the road that has long been passed.

just think if i wasnt a member of this forum i would never have got discus and would have had boring (normal) gravel!!!!

if your new and reading this post i recommend this forum the information that has been given to me by exp members has been amazing!!

as for xtreme aquariums......i'll see you tomorrow rebecca :D :D :D

[Proteus]

When you go there, just call her Wabecca, she loves it.

Pleasure to help out as always.

Just remember, dont get discouraged by advice from a single person, ask for more opinions and that way you will get a more accurate idea of what will work and what wont.

[taksan]

BTW you can get white 1mm gravel that looks fantastic that is totaly inert and will not raise your PH.
Treat your water with Seachem netrual regulator before filling the tank and after WC's and you will easily keep a PH of 7.

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

haha will do.
you better not be getting me in trouble lol...

yea i have learnt not to take advice from one person,i think i'll just stick to advice from you guys..

thanks man! :D

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

where abouts taksan?
im heading to the places proteus mentioned tomorrow.

wherabouts can i check it out? or who stocks it?

[Proteus]

Taksan is in Victoria, but I am sure there are places here where the same stuf can be sourced from

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

well you got me pretty excited about this pool filter sand anyway.
do i need to worry about it compacting and limiting my plants?
by sounds of it it goes well in your tank?

[Proteus]

I have never had a problem with it and have used it for years, including in my C02 planted tank

[aaawe]

I manage to reduce a water pH of my fish farm with zeolite. You can try it!

[wickedglass]

I use sand, too, I love it ... if you're worried about compacting, get some brochis catfish or corydoras, they keep it nice and loose because they root around in it ... little pigs they are :P kind of cool watching them suck the sand into their mouths and filter it out their gill flaps, too! ;)

[Cliffeh]

I've just converted one of my tanks from black gravel to bare bottom... didn't realise the bottom would look like the surface of the moon after a few years use so I covered the bare bottom with a dusting of light sand... looks pretty good so far!

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

i almost like corys more than discus lol, so yea thats an interesting fact that they help out,stoked haha can't wait to watch them plough through it.

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

thats the thing about sand,it looks so good!!!
brown gravel is so bland to look as personally.

[nj74]

Hi people.. am new to the forum but have been reading for a while. So thanks for all the great information.

I agree sand looks awesome but have had trouble finding it.. Does anyone know of a pool shop (or anywhere else) i can find pool filter sand around Surry Hills in Syd?

Thanks,
Nathan

[Inspiringfish]

LNTD

Gorgeous picture!!!!!! I hope to see that someday in one of my tanks. Beautiful!!!!!

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

Does anyone know of a pool shop (or anywhere else) i can find pool filter sand around Surry Hills in Syd?

hey there nj74
welcome to discus forums!!!

this is the shop where i bought my pool filter sand (thanks to proteus)its in miranda though:

poolmart
95259155
cnr President Ave & Silvania Rd-MIRANDA

the deliver too.
HTH

[lovenotthrowdiscus]

LNTD

Gorgeous picture!!!!!! I hope to see that someday in one of my tanks. Beautiful!!!!!

hey thanks alot Inspiringfish,yea wouldn't it be great!!!! :lol: