Blue Ram fry just fade away....

[k9outfit]

I've managed to raise Blue Ram fry to free swimming stage (5-6 times already), but then they just seem to loose ground and die off. I've tried loading their container with plant material (for microorganisms as food), and starting to feed them microworms (brine shrimp seemed too large) almost even before they become free swimming. They seem to do fine, but then gradually fade away and die in a week or two. Any thoughts or ideas as to what I might be doing wrong? I've tried using straight RO water, tank water, airstones set at different levels and bubbling with varying intensity, temp. set at 27.5 degrees, daily water changes/no water changes.... :?: :?: :?:

[fishgeek]

it will mostly likely be starvation or poor water quality

do you see any colour to there belly's food is usually very obvious in young fry
white with white worms etc


increased feeding will mean more potential for water deterioation and fry are much more sensitive to these problems


andrew

[k9outfit]

No, actually there isn't any colour to their bellies - so most likely starvation? Is there anything I can do to induce them to start eating?

Don't think water quality's the issue, since I have tried doing 20% and 50% water changes daily, and they still die on me.

[fishgeek]

try directing a small volume of food, i use a syringe and airline, right close to them
i havent raised blue ram fry so cant speak specifically about them

microworms should be small enough, though size of first foods fro blue ram is a somewhat contentious point
i know of people whom i trust that say bbs are actually small enough
microworm should be smaller and anything with movement seems to encourage feeding

prehaps mix some microworm and decapsulated(you dont want the shells) brine shrimp egg's(all the nutrition , none of the mess in hatching) together and see if they then get colour in the belly next go

also finely crushed powder food can be mixed with some microworm to add small particles to a moving stimulator

just my take
andrew

ps i find with young fish large water changes can be problematic so best to set up some airline syphon sets and do slower changes
have the airline attached in the tank and just slowly drain into bucket , then reverse the flow with fresh water sitting smewhere higher than the tank and running in to refill , allows you to leave a slow flow unattended

if still to fast just crimp the tube or retard flow in whichever fashion you feel comfortable, airline tap can retard to just steady drip
no water shocks that way

[mtchye]

Blue ram fry in my experience do MUCH better with dedicated feedings of green water or infusoria sized food. They even refused to take on microworms and slowly fade away as you described.

Try getting a green water culture going in 7 big buckets, that way you have one a day to feed them. I try to keep the water green all the time for the first couple of weeks.

Once they start taking bbs or microworms they are as easy as any other dwarf.

HTH
Vincent

[k9outfit]

They spawned again last night, and now that I've got some new things to try, hopefully we'll be more successful this time around.

Thanks for all the input and great advice!

[parkap]

Good luck k9. Am keen to see how you go incase my rams try to spawn again.

Don't forget, if you get the chance... photos. :D

[fishgeek]

right that makes 2 of us trying to raise these, mine have just laid egg's all over a terracotta piece in there tank
good opportunity to remove , though i am much more inclined to see what they do themselves

fingers crossed for both of us
the tank they are in, shot from a few nights back before they spawned
too much light in there now to get shots and the pot is hidden in the corner behind the leg of stand

[fishgeek]

and one of mum

[k9outfit]

They are stunning fish, aren't they? Love your set-up too! I've removed everything from my tank other than a couple of rocks to spawn on, so I can try to rescue the eggs before it's too late. Looks like heck, but I'm determined to succeed! :evil:

I tried leaving the eggs in for the parents to raise, they keep the eggs in wonderful condition, fussing over & fanning them (they ate them before I added White Cloud minnows as dithers though), but as soon as the eggs start hopping around, they chomp 'em as fast as they can! So, I wait 'til they're almost mobile, then remove them and ... well, you know the rest....

Hope yours are better parents than mine, without an acquired taste for Sushi! Good luck! Keep us posted!

[fishgeek]

mine spawned 1 yr earlier in a small QT tank hatched the fry swam with them and then all gone one night , since moving them here they havent really had a chance
not had a spot of their own other than were they are and that is the start of the sump filter

[fishgeek]

well mine have hatched and have been moved to the back of the tank where i cant see them well enough to photograph
have been giving them very fine powdered food,frozen bbs,microworm and decapsulated brine shrimp egg's

tank is pretty mature with lots of moss so hopefully enoug natural food for some no matter what

and hopefully enough places to hide if the parental skills are poor

so far i have been keeping lots of worm feedings up to the adults though now they have hidden it wll be harder to know what is going on

fingers crossed

[k9outfit]

Well, I'm down to only a couple of fry now. :cry: Started with a troupe of 75, then down a couple, now suddenly I might still have 3-4. I've tried feeding microworms, but I keep getting this sick feeling when I watch them with a magnifying glass, that it's actually the microworms that are eating the fry! :shock: I've also been feeding "Hikari First Bites" along with a few drops of "Zoe" vitamins (apparently highly laced with spirulina), they seemed to be doing relatively well even last night (though I was down to possibly 20 or so), and this morning hardly a soul to be found! Not sure at what stage the rot set in...

I had them in a mason jar with an airstone & Java Moss, then once they were almost free swimming (and being fed 1st Bites and some microworms) I moved them into a 2.5 gallon tank, floating in the 10 gallon growout. I stuck the sponge filter (loaded with stuff, well aged) in the 2.5 gallon. There's also a fair amount of Java moss in the 2.5. Regular water changes with part 10 gallon tank water & part RO water.

Anyone know how to make green water? I tried, but I don't think I really have it right....

Sorry for the long post, but maybe someone might clue into what I'm doing wrong?

[gingerbeer01]

My first few attempts I only got around 6 through. My best was 20+ feeding BBS and microworms.

I found them and Apistos very frustrating and have gone back to africans for a while.

Best result was to let them breed and remove female immediatly - as she was always the egg eating culprut. Male I would either remove on day 2-3 or immediatly. If I removed him immediatly I would set up an airstone nearby until they hatched - then move it so the babys didn't start flying round the tank. This was all done in a standard 2 footer.

Now I am lurking here and being tempted - especially with the nice Rams and Boreli I am seeing.

Steve

[k9outfit]

Hmmmm... Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way? :banghead Maybe I should put the parents back in the original - very well established - 10 gallon tank with the sponge filter & Java Moss, then pull them when the fry are almost emerging? I've grown numerous fry (completely involuntarily/accidentally) in that tank already, so there's got to be lots of fry food...

gingerbeer01, I'd be doing backflips for even 2 fry surviving into juvie-hood! :roll: I already have a house full of Africans, that's why I decided to try something a bit more challenging.... :banghead

[fishgeek]

i would assume with increased attempts to ed in a small water volume that you are getting water quality issue's

i would be inclined to try in a larger filtered volume of water , and yes the more mature the better

andrew

[steph]

The other thing to try is raising the fry in the very mature tank, with lots of organic matter. Maybe cultivate a HUGE bunch of java moss for the fry so there is some 'natural' microscopic food for them.

I was nevere able to raise fry past about 6 days free swimming so I cant offer any posistive help but I have read that people are have raised them in almost straight green water.

HTH

Steph

[fishgeek]

lost mine today , pity
i guess next time i will pull them or perhasp make a floating hatcher so i dont have to worry about water quality in a smaller hatching tank

[k9outfit]

My condolences, fishgeek! :cry: I'm sure we'll get it figured out eventually.

I was talking to someone (extremely knowledgeable guy), and he mentioned some sort of disease that seems to hit these little guys around the week mark - give or take a bit. He said the name of the disease (it affects their gills), but I didn't get a chance to write it down, and I can't quite recall. It started with "sag" or "saw" or something... Anyway, he STRONGLY advocates a larger, very mature tank, rather than a smaller, immaculately pure water tank.

So, if anyone can try that, I'd be eagerly waiting for results (of success 8-) ). My female came down with bloat or hex or something, and treatement isn't going too well, so it could be a while before I can resume experimenting (forgot to plug the heater back in after a treatement, and the temp went down to 72 F. :( . She's still hangin' in there though....)

[k9outfit]

Think I may have accidentally broken the code! :wave2

Think the key is to leave them in a really grungy tank, and let them fend for themselves? I had my old male and new small female (original female didn't make it :( ) in a tank that hasn't been cleaned for a very long time, with grunge all over the bottom. They spawned, but I pulled them too soon, and the eggs fungused. So, I scraped everything off the rock and forgot about the now empty tank. This morning I happened to glance at the tank and there were ~10-12 fry swimming around, obviously eating, and healthy. So, I started feeding microworms & frozen bbs, though I hardly think any additional food is necessary at this stage, since there's obviously lots for them to pick at. Hopefully I'm not jumping the gun, but I really think this time they'll actually make it! :D

[shayesmommy]

congrats rita. i just found this post and dicided to read it .
so i was happy to see you finally got it. :D :D :) :)
remember me if you decide to sell or they make it :P