my discus breeding with updates. case#4762

[rytis]

ok. my first pair of discus are in a 50g tank since yesterday and looking great! they spawned in community tank 2 weeks ago and kept their fry in tact for 2-3 days after hatching...

i will update with a photo and video clip each day from when i see eggs....

[rytis]

ok get ready, the intensive cleaning of the clay pot has begun...

[rytis]

wow that was quick. female was making runs so i turned on the light after few minutes i checked the pot is full of eggs, but the male is just standing by i didnt see him make runs after the female, i hope theyre fertilized!! much much more eggs now then in community tank... must be like 400? anyway it's 10pm at night here, i dont want to disturb them any more for now, will take pictures tomorrow...

[Merrilyn]

Congratulations rytis. Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Sometimes it takes the males a few tries before they get their act together. The females seem to mature much earlier than the males.

Looking forward to some photos :P

[rytis]

this is the male that kept working on babies 1.5 days after female lost interest in the community tank... but if theyre not fertilised, by tomorrow night i should see white i guess? i didnt watch the whole spawn just couple of minutes at the middle, maybe i missed some, and maybe i scared it off, will see...

but i think the crossbreed should be spectacular, yellow siamese with blue turq

[rytis]

looks like female is very politely, but trying to keep the male away from eggs.... perhaps that's a bad sign? will see in the next few days i guess....

[marg]

Not a bad sign Rytis - All my Females seem to do that, then they settle down for a few days - eventually sharing time fanning and mouthing eggs - then just when I think it looks successful they decide to have Discus Caviar (Cannibals - chomp, chomp, chomp on the Eggs :evil: :evil: :evil: ).

Makes me mad but I don't five up easily, and will continue trying. I WILL succeed one day (probably when they put me in a wheelchair :lol: :lol: :lol: ).

Maybe I should pack up and move to Wangaratta and buy the house next to Crocky - he is the most successful Breeder that I know, lucky devil. I am certain there is something in that Wangaratta Water.

Good luck - hope you have success.,

Regards,

Marg.

[rytis]

pea tmoss probably. i added peat moss to most my tanks yesterday, few hours later they spawned. eggs are still there this morning and looking very good, surpkrisingly parents seem to be eating (bloodworms) last time they were busy....

time to take the first pic i promissed..

my camera is not too good for pictures, but since they were shy there was no use to take video... both are taking care of the eggs, black tray on the left i filled yesterday with peat and some gravel on top to lower pH, few hours later they spawned. clay pot on right was placed a week ago also half peat light gravel, eggs are on it...

[rytis]

well, i guess im too lazy to update with pics because you've all seen this, anyway noticed today that if parents take babies in their mouth it does not mean they eat it (someone complained about their babies being eaten) anyway, the father picked up two babies, and kept in his mouth for about a full minute before spitting them back, i was already sure that they're starting to eat them....

anyway, everything's looking very good, it's day 3 after egg laying, about 30-40 babies...

[rytis]

ok

[jim from sydney]

Rytis...congrats,

well done................

looking good so far....

keep pics coming...... :blob

[rytis]

thx. why am i getting that strong feeling this combination of parents will result in babies looking something beautiful like this? http://www.discusforums.com/forum/images/avatars/41700349043488bcc00016.jpg
:?
will have to wait and see, but i see no other option, maybe blue instead of red though..

[goldenpigeon]

rytis there wont be any sudden change of colour like the discus in the picture. most of the babies will more than likely turn out like the turq parent and the rest like the yellow parent. the offspring will carry the turq and yellow genes nad then later on a few generations down the track something new might come out depending on how they colours are bred togeather

[rytis]

ok will have to try again, bebies died off today, cant quite figure out why, but just as they started swimming around, they had something on top of their heads, wonder what could that have been?

what could have been causes for deaths?
sun? lack of peat? need sterilizer?

[mcloughlin2]

Sad to hear that rytis....

It could quite possibly be the fact they are right next to a window...

It wouldnt be the actual light but the water temperature could have been to high... :? :wink:

Also they wouldnt have died of lack of peat moss...

It would rather be because the water was to hard..

Post the ph, hardess, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels of the tank if possible...also the temp.

[jim from sydney]

Rytes....sorry to hear that Pal....

I had a big spawn this week...lots of eggs.....but saw only 6 wrigglers getting very thick and growing...then...oops their dad thought it was time for his "dinner" and that was the end of that lot.. :oops: .....ah well....try again.

[rytis]

they all seemed to have something stuck to their forheads, looked like a piece of dirt, that's what's confusing me. i'm not too dissapointed, coz i know this pair will spawn again in the next few days or so, but would like to figure out what's the problem for next time:

temperature is just above 30c ok, will try to lower to 28c. also will remove both pots this time, will try to keep it even cleaner.

[Merrilyn]

Loss of fry at the point of free swimming is not unusual. Sorry to hear you lost the batch Rytis.

A few suggestions for you. Remove both pots and plants, and just have an empty flower pot in the tank for the fish to spawn on, turned upside down. Anything else in the tank will just distract the fry. The babies must begin to find their parents and attach within 48 hours or they starve to death.

Any ammonia in the tank will kill newly hatched fry immediately. They cannot tolerate any level of ammonia at all. You need to begin gentle water change every day, as soon as the eggs begin to hatch.

The thread on the head of the fry sounds like the sticky substance that's used to attach the fry , by their head to the spawning surface. It takes a day or two to clear up. Does that sound like what your fry had, or could it have been some kind of fungus. I don't suppose you managed to get a photo of it ?

Good luck with the next spawn.

[rytis]

PH reading at 7.5!! duh
thought i could get away with adding regular water couple of times, i had pots filled with peat in the tank, thought that should do it... i think this was the cause that's probably why dirt stuck to them? in softer water dirt dont stick as much?

[phear]

try putting the peat in your water aging drum in a corner filter running for a few days this is the best way to use peat it will not solve all of your problems if u have high ph and hard water the only way to combat this i have found out is to invest a few hundred$$$ on a Reverse Osmosis unit but u need to figure out what % of ro to filtered tap water u need to get the disired water paramaters..

hope this helps
Jamie

[rytis]

Remove both pots and plants, and just have an empty flower pot in the tank for the fish to spawn on, turned upside down. Anything else in the tank will just distract the fry.
just did all these exactly the same way


The babies must begin to find their parents and attach within 48 hours or they starve to death.
they started to attach themselves to the male (dark turq) already, but something seemed to be sticking to them. and i saw parents trying to revive some dead fry by picking them up and spitting them back into this bunch, but they seemed to be attached on it (clay pot) what looked to be like some sort of slime, which is strange?

also, i didnt see any attach to yellow mother although she was the one doing most of the work picking them up.

the night the last baby died, male drastically changed color became much lighter.


Any ammonia in the tank will kill newly hatched fry immediately. They cannot tolerate any level of ammonia at all. You need to begin gentle water change every day
i was doing that.
i have carbon in filter bags, could this be a problem?
what other methods would you suggest to remove amonia?


The thread on the head of the fry sounds like the sticky substance that's used to attach the fry , by their head to the spawning surface. It takes a day or two to clear up. Does that sound like what your fry had, or could it have been some kind of fungus. I don't suppose you managed to get a photo of it ?
oh ok, yea, looked more like slime not fungus. pH was 7.5 i was surprised to find out today, could that have killed them? getting lazy on peat softening water to be changed

i sent my good camera to be fixed, should get it back in a few days, no normal pics for now.

any help real appreciated, coz i know they will spawn within next week or so and i want to see all of them survive this time. can i do this without RO unit/sterilizer? coz these things are a pain to set up, i got tons and tons of peat now. brings pH down to 6.5 without much problem, if i use it patiently should this solve the problem?

[mcloughlin2]

Hmmm,,, IMO the ph of 7.5 would not have killed the babies as i know some people have raised batches of babies with a ph of up to 8.0.... :wink:


also, i didnt see any attach to yellow mother although she was the one doing most of the work picking them up.
the night the last baby died, male drastically changed color became much lighter.

Thats one of the problems with yellow's and albino discus as the fry are naturally attracted to dark figures... :)

I did mention this may happen on the previous page....

I would try to bring the ph down to 6.5 as sometimes higher ph can affect spawning...

I feel that the babies most likely died as this is the pairs first? spawn and still probably dont have the hang of it...

Another problem could be you "over caring" ...maybe too much water was changed and too many disruptions... :?:


i was doing that.
i have carbon in filter bags, could this be a problem?
what other methods would you suggest to remove amonia?

Do you have ammonia in the tank? If not i would not put any amtrite down or any other chemicals in the tank.... :wink:

Cheers

[rytis]

Another problem could be you "over caring" ...maybe too much water was changed and too many disruptions...disruptions maybe, i will cover the tank this time


Do you have ammonia in the tank? If not i would not put any amtrite down or any other chemicals in the tank.... :wink: don't know, these testers are a pain, i cant tell thedif between the tripe colors, but this is what i suspect most at the moment: amonia: the parents were eating a lot all the time after spawning and i was feeding them well so they would not eat the babies (no leftovers though), but maybe that waste caused amonia

ARMTRITE? i have AMQUEL maybe i should put that in?

oh and temp was at about 31c, should i try to bring it down to 28c?

[mcloughlin2]

I wouldnt put any chemicals in as i said before until the problem has been discovered...

I would try and bring the temp. down.... :)

[rytis]

help
ok tomorrow is day 3 of eggs they will start moving out from the pot... need some advice. last time they mysteriously died at the time they started swimming. now i have some live plants and more cycled tank/filter which should help if amonia/nitrate was the problem...

water changes....any tricks to prevent them from getting sucked in? i mean can i skip vaccuming the bottom for the next few days and just remove old water thru power filter instead?

i got small daphnia is that ok instead of brine shrimp?

after how many days of free swimming should i start feeding them?

continnue feeding parents full strength? (all live food black worms and mosquito larva)

any other suggestions to help babies make it thru those fragile first few days which will start tomorrow?

[samir]

nice looking fish Rytis. good luck with your breeding attempts. :)

[rytis]

i woke up this morning, loked at the eggs all fertile that were about ready to hatch last night were missing :(
and i was gona post yesterday that these parents will not harm them....

anyway, as i looked around, i noticed both parents pointing in the same direction, so i looked on the other side, and saw a batch of fry there....

anyway, as i stated in previous post above, i need any link or info of suggestions on how to keep these guys alive for the next few days...

[mcloughlin2]

Don't do any water changes for the next week....

Keep temperature stable..

Only feed small portions of food to the parents.... :D

Don't feed the babies for another few days..

[rytis]

another pair just spawned in 125g planted tank, they are there alone besides 5 danios and small pleco, i figured i will take out danios, small pleco can stay and put sponge on left filter intake (side of fry), strangely i just cleaned a glass tube to put in as breeding cone and that's when i noticed, these both parents are praised by everyone as awesome ones: large blue diamond father, and once the infamous "black" now snakeskin blue mother... pics coming up....

other fry of yellow and blue turq are doing good so far.... (just wiggling so far, but father is trying to align himself so they would jump on him i guess, he's one carring father from what i've seen so far...)

no water changes for a week???? are you sure?!?!?!?

i did 30% water change today, i figured its the most important part!!

[rytis]

ok here we go, pics...

[goldfish]

good work man, looks like your having fun with your discus! and learning alot too!
fingers cross the babies survive eh!

[rytis]

thanx!

emergency:
right after cleaning the glass i noticed a few of these "octopus" types, about 1/4cm small parazites with tentacles... i read here before that they eat babies, ok so whats the best way to get rid of them? i figure scrape all glass to get them suspended into water and then do 50% water change sucking them up? (it will be the same temperature)

[rytis]

:evil:
im getting angry with this. why is it every time babies start swimming, they start dying??????????

[rytis]

i can tell you 99% within next 2 weeks i will have a crapload of little discusses....

this is for the record, so i can later point back to this post....

[mcloughlin2]

i can tell you 99% within next 2 weeks i will have a crapload of little discusses....

this is for the record, so i can later point back to this post....

How is this possible?

Your tank will NOT be fully cycled by then, and your pair will not be settled into the tank... :?

You are nuking the tank right? :? :? :?

[rytis]

yes im nuking the tank, but i will take sponges from cycled tank and that should be good enough? that pair is always quick to spawn....

but i just cant start the process now, because there is one fat little wiggler left and i took father out this morning, then saw the one wiggler in there and my heart didnt let me abandon him, so i put father back in....

so it may be delayed by some time,

[goldenpigeon]

lol rytis you are getting so ahead of yourself. in 2 weeks you will only just have enough time to put a pair back in the tank to spawn. if that. seriously you need to condition the pair, clean the tank properly, cycle the filter etc... how can you possibly be thinking of breeding them?!?!?!

[rytis]

lol rytis you are getting so ahead of yourself. in 2 weeks you will only just have enough time to put a pair back in the tank to spawn. if that. seriously you need to condition the pair, clean the tank properly, cycle the filter etc... how can you possibly be thinking of breeding them?!?!?!because i am an advanced aquarist with hydra culture?

[mcloughlin2]

Rytis, im with gp and all the others..

You are way to far ahead of yourself...
A advanced aquarist would not be thinking like this...

They would not think a pleco would eat hydra.... :roll: :lol:

And they would not think they could cycle and have a tank setup with the pair breeding again in two weeks...

And you will only have a crap load of lil discus's if you do this thing properly...

JMHO

[rytis]

ok, so i can not take a sponge now from an aged tank even if i inspect it carefuly for hydra, right?

that's the part that bothers me. i mean even if there is like a few hydra, will they multiply that fast?

[samir]

rytis stop trying to grow your own food. you need to nuke all the tanks.there are many dry foods available that are excellent for discus. try ladyred's beefheart recipe(my fish love it) and alternate that with a quality granule for discus. you can also try a good brand of frozen bloodworms. dont complicate things for yourself. if you want to have you fish living naturally, eating natural live wriggly stuff, book a flight to Brazil, you'll find a big river there, put them in it, hire a canoe and follow them around. rytis its a tank not the amazon so just feed them stuff that will not give them parasites and give you headaches. and start taking people's advice. do keep asking questions no matter how silly they may seem to anyone it will only help.

[goldenpigeon]

here is what you should do to FINALLY get rid of the Hydra and so you are PERFECTLY clear on what to do.

1. take the pair and what ever babies left and stick them in you community tank.. the babies may not survive but this cant go on any longer.

2. nuke the tank and everything in it.

3. clean the tank thoroughly.

4. cycle a sponge filter using the FISHLESS CYCLING METHOD so that no parasites get into your filter.

5. once the cycle is complete ONLY have the sponge filter, heater and breeding cone in the tank. NOTHING ELSE! dont bother with sterilizers for now. just the sponge.

5. add your breeding pair and start breeding them again.

6. FORGET THE LIVE FOODS. is it really worth the head ache?

you will be back breeding your discus in a month or so but DO IT PROPERLY and DONT CUT CORNERS just because you want to breed the fish! then you will get better results.

questions are fine but repeating questions isnt.

cheers

and i hope this puts an end to the whole thing!

David

[rytis]

ok people, first lets set the mood to friendly, because somehow some of you get a feeling that im unfriendly i dont know why :D

i am arguing with several of you about these hydra parazites, and you seem to get irritated, two topics about hydra have been locked.

ONE MORE POINT
with all of your suggestions that i should nuke my live food ponds and filter of tank
my response is: now i still have one wiggler going strong at daya 7 after hatching in a hydra infested tank, it seems he outgrew hydras threats. so isnt it logical that if i nuke just the tank, cone, heater start clean but with old cycled filter and discus breed, that hydras will not multiply enough fast enough to cause problems thru that delicate time period of first few days?


time will show if i am right or wrong and if i am wrong i am very quick to admit and will be a good lesson, so do not be angry

[rytis]

btw, this reminds me of my signiture: lets say hydras are terrorists, how can you eh lets not get into that :)

[samir]

i give up. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead rytis it will take a few spawns till your pair get it right. by the time your fry finally start attaching and your pair figure out what to do there will be so much hydra you'll need hercules to get rid of them. everyone here has gone through these problems and are giving you advice so that you do not make the same mistakes. keeping fish is not rocket science, you dont need to split the atom to get discus to spawn,so keep things simple and stop complicating things for yourself. you could either follow all the excellent advice you have got or do it your way and then eventually have to nuke your tank in the end anyways.

[rytis]

all im trying to do is trying to find out how to make life miserable for hydras in order to contain them, by your nuking logic, if one hydra shows up somehow from the air or wherever it showed up in my pond the first place, i will have to nuke again, the next think i know i will run out of nukes and nuke producers, and i have no food, because no one is left alive....

see that's bush's way of solving a problem, it just don't work that way, i want to know what causes the problem, not just eliminate it. parazites/viruses are everywhere, if i could find out who eats hydras coz there is a chainfood thing...

[samir]

good luck :roll:
livebearer that eats hydra : Poecilia perugiae
some snails apparently eat them too
have fun

[rytis]

thx. will keep that in consideration. i have a question... about this one wiggler left thats now firmly in love with his dad,... as i stated yesterday, the father was temporarily removed from tank then put back coz i felt too sorry for wiggler, so i postponed my plans to nuke the tank,

BUT, would it be possible if i scoop up the wiggler into container for a couple of hours with his father, while i nuke the tank and clean it well, (do all i plan to do) and then put them both back in, what are the chances of wiggler surviving?

[rytis]

YES!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
i managed to catch father, scoop out the baby, put them in a bucket for about an hour, nuke the tank, move, refil, put father back and scoop baby out and HES BACK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
phew, this baby has a soul, i know that....

[rytis]

here it is

[taksan]

I give up too .... :roll:
Unless you totaly ditch the idea for feeding you fish from your ponds and nuke your breeding tank you have no chance. Not that I care anymore about what happens to you or your fish. Everyones tried to help your not listerning so why bother even asking? Why do you bother asking questions when you refuse to accept the answers? Please eirther learn to accept what people tell you or stop pestering people with questions when you refuse to accept the answers.
People here are not unfriendly they are helpful but they don't like taking the time out to be trying to help someone like you who obviously doesn't appreciate it and will not listern to their advice. That you are obviously intent on continuing to feed your fish that rubbish from your pond is evidence that you are hardly serious about your problems. Your fish look thin and stunted and your knoweldge is at best beginner level. But of course as usual you know best ! So enjoy your fish and your Hydra culture and leave this alone unless you are prepared to listern to the good advice from experienced and successful people that have tried to help you.

[Nathan]

its a shame as they have quite nice colourings IMO, its a shame such ignorance an arogance will kill these discus

[rytis]

cant' you read the post above? the tank has been nuked

both parents are back in it, and the baby is chasing after them like a little puppy

it's all good....
#1, i had BIG doubts that baby will survive the ordeal #2, i thought if i put mother back in she will probably not recognize and eat the baby

baby is still alive!!
of course im not feeding from that pond, did i say somewhere i was going to???

[rytis]

your not listerning so why bother even asking? Why do you bother asking questions when you refuse to accept the answers?
i dont know why im under attack here, don't quite understand. dont know what you're talking about refusing to accept answers, this sentence don't even make sense to me, i just get a sense that for some reason some of you don't like me? is it something i said? answers are something one finds out and then makes decisions, i learned a lot of good things (most stuff about discus) from this forum, so what are you talking about im not accepting answers? then i ask "are you sure plecos will not eat hydra" and again i get bashed....

Please eirther learn to accept what people tell you
i accept and i move on...i accept jesus also. though i am not a christian, because i am not a racist. and i accept bush is president


People here are not unfriendly they are helpful but they don't like taking the time out to be trying to help someone like you who obviously doesn't appreciate it and will not listern to their advice.
who are you to say that i don't appreciate what someone tells me? just because i question someones suggestions? did i ever insult anyone here? would be good if you could be more specific...

That you are obviously intent on continuing to feed your fish that rubbish from your pond is evidence that you are hardly serious about your problems. oh ok, here's the thing: i NEVER meant to feed babies from that pond OBVIOUSLY, THAT's the misunderstanding we had (i hope!) i meant nothing wrong with feeding grown fish from that pond to which i havent seen any problems....

Your fish look thin and stunted and your knoweldge is at best beginner level.
i never claimed to be an advanced discus keeper, i only kept them under a year, for the past 9 months only one died upon delivery and this is my first time i have one baby alive for a week. thanx for the compliment... :)

[samir]

rytis stop feeding from the pond at once. you need to deworm every single one of your fish. live food is an ABSOLUTE NO. parasites are okay in the amazon but in your tank they can reproduce to levels that are very harmful to your fish. the objective here is to keep them out not bring them in. this is my last post on this subject.

[rytis]

parasites are okay in the amazon but in your tank they can reproduce to levels that are very harmful to your fish.
ladyred even mentioned that hydras are harmful to young babies, she didnt say anything about adult discus...

i got probably $1000 worth of live plants in my tanks, how would i dewom them? plus i see no sign of problem in my planted grown discus tanks and none died, why should i just take your advice to nuke?

what if bush's advisors told him to nuke russia, because terrorists are there and they hate us, if we don't nuke Iran, syria, russia, NK, china, venezuela, and all of these countries containing paraziterorists, these hydras will kill us all!

[taksan]

[quote=samir]

what if bush's advisors told him to nuke russia, because terrorists are there and they hate us, if we don't nuke Iran, syria, russia, NK, china, venezuela, and all of these countries containing paraziterorists, these hydras will kill us all!


Ummmmm ...errrrrr
Please keep your comments on topic

[taksan]

then i ask "are you sure plecos will not eat hydra" and again i get bashed....
who are you to say that i don't appreciate what someone tells me? just because i question someones suggestions? did i ever insult anyone here? would be good if you could be more specific...
oh ok, here's the thing: i NEVER meant to feed babies from that pond OBVIOUSLY, THAT's the misunderstanding we had (i hope!) i meant nothing wrong with feeding grown fish from that pond to which i havent seen any problems....


You had already asked if Plecos ate Hydra and it was answered NO then you asked "are you sure" this is questioning someones answer in a way that devalves their advice and yes its rude and its insulting and its why your getting "bashed".

The whole point being made here in case you missed it is that you should NOT FEED ANYTHING OUT OF YOUR POND TO ANYTHING IN YOUR TANKS !!!!! EVER !!!!! PERIOD !!!!!! FULL STOP !!!!!!!!!

[samir]

[quote="rytis"][quote=samir]

what if bush's advisors told him to nuke russia, because terrorists are there and they hate us, if we don't nuke Iran, syria, russia, NK, china, venezuela, and all of these countries containing paraziterorists, these hydras will kill us all!

hey i didnt write that. :?

[goldenpigeon]

lol samir that was a mistake by taksan.

Rytis we are talking about fish here not bush and his nuclear issues! there is no politics in fish!

why save your filter and just do your tank? the hydra are just staying there and multiplying! why why why? what you SHOULD BE TRYING TO ACHIEVE is getting rid of these parasites! whether they are lethal to your baby discus and not to your adult discus is beside the point!!!

do you care about your fishes health? all you WANT IS TO BREED THEM!!! SO YOU CAN LOOK GOOD BECAUSE "RYTIS BRED DISCUS"! you and a million other people!

if you care about your fish you would think long term and would be grown up about this and say "ok, well i cant breed my discus now but for the health and safety of my discus (big and small) i will get rid of the hydra once and for all and be done with it... then once my tank is hydra free i will breed my discus to my hearts content".

WE (discus forum members) are trying to help you to stop the problem. YOU just want to treat the hydras like your garden lawn and just keep mowing them down once in a while when there is too many. this isnt a video game where you "kill the terrorists" (as you would put it) and when another "sleeper cell" pops up you blow their heads off. have you ever considered that these things might kill your discus if they are left there?

RYTIS! FOR EVERYONE HERE'S SAKE! JUST BE DONE WITH THEM! JUST DO THE RIGHT THING BY YOUR FISH OR TAKE THEM TO THE PET STORE AND STOP WASTING PEOPLES TIME.

[goldenpigeon]

also rytis if you want to know if pleco's eat hydra why dont you use one of you pleco's to conduct the test! sounds like you have plenty of both! let me know the results!

[rytis]

i know, im considering setting up another sponge filter in an empty tank in case i get hydra attack again, then i will do both at the same time, i just didnt have that option at this time, because i have 1 wiggler which i care about, most of you would probably "cull it" and be done with it, well my heart didnt let me do this abandon this baby, that is the precise one and only reason why i did not nuke both tank AND filter. i could have just transfered the parents to a basically empty 125g paradise planted tank, but what about the baby?

and you call me cruel? :?

or perhaps you can tell me how i should make the full transition while saving the baby?

[rytis]

ok i will do the hydra/pleco test today, GOOD IDEA golden!!! :)

answer should be by the morning australian time...

[goldenpigeon]

is one baby discus worth a pair? im sure you will get more. but there is no point leaving the problem to grow while you have one fry. if you put it in another tank with the parents it might do ok, it might not, this is what we breeders go through. the fact of life is that mother nature takes its course on everything and sonetimes for the greater good we all have to make sacrifices. its up to you.

[taksan]

Ok ok ok .... Enough is enough as obviously hints and warnings are useless to the deaf, dumb and blind.
This has gone about as far as it can. Time to stop it.
Locking this thread to give Rytis more time to play with his Hydra babies.
8-)