About to set up new tank, advice appreciated.

[MacGyver239]

I recently ordered a 50 gallon tank (i think, the tank measurements are 4 feet long, 18 inches wide and 18 inches tall). I am planning on having about 4 discus, a school of cardinals, a school of harlequin rasboras, some type (maybe golden nugget) pleco, maybe a couple siamese algae eaters, and maybe a cory catfish or two, all in a planted (plants undecided) tank.
here is the set-up, please let me know if anything is good or bad, or needs to be changed
-4foot by 18 inch by 18 inch tank
-tank cover
-jeboa external filter-Flow rate: 1200 l/h (320G/h)
(filter media will be: filter wool, then activated carbon, then ceramic noodles with "biohome plus"sintered glass mixed in, and finally bio-balls)
-45 kg of gravel
-i will cycle it with salt and psb bacteria added to the water for maybe a week, then slowly begin adding plants, then cardinals, then discus, etc

anyway my main concern right now is filtration. will my canister be big enough if i routinely do a 20% or more water change every week? other things i am concerned about are am i exceeding the load of my tank? Is my filter media suitable, and if so is it in the best order in the canister?(i will make sure the carbon is not dusty)

any advice welcome, thanks in advance!

[wickedglass]

personally I don't use activated carbon in my canister filters, it only lasts 2 weeks and then starts to leak all the nice crap it filtered out back into the system unless you change the carbon. I'm not interested in having to change it every two weeks. I use a hang-on filter for carbon in conjunction with the canister just for biological filtration. A 1200 L/H filter should easily be sufficient for a tank that size with that amount of fish. 20% water-change per week is ok, too, depending on how much you feed, etc. It's of great advantage if the tank is heavily planted in this case, otherwise 2 x 20% waterchanges per week are probably better.
A good rule of thumb is 1 adult discus per 10 gallons, so you're ok there. However most people will tell you to lay off the pleco. They get large and may develop a taste for the slime-coating on your discus. But opinions on this differ. My concern with keeping a pleco in a discus tank would be more that plecos create a heck of a lot of waste. You'd probably be better advised to keep 4 or 5 corys instead of the pleco, and who knows, the corys might even breed. I've had that happen a few times. I'm not sure about the rasboras, as I've never kept them, I've heard they can be nippy, but the cardinals will go splendidly with the discus, and you'll do well, if as you say, you add them before introducing the discus, because if you do the reverse, the discus might see them as food.
I don't know anything about cycling with salt? as I generally cycle naturally, with populated medium from my already established tanks, so I can't advise you on that.
Hope some of this helps :)

[sharn]

do you mean the jebao canister? i have one myself and find it good, very quiet and alot of room for your media, easy to start too :) pretty much a eheim knock off so not as high quality but its still great!

[MacGyver239]

thanks wicked, the cory 4 or 5 dorys instead of a pleco is a really good idea. i did some more research and saw that saimese algae eaters and rasboras both originate from asia so should i get rid of those or will they be fine?

[MacGyver239]

thanks wicked, the cory 4 or 5 dorys instead of a pleco is a really good idea. i did some more research and saw that saimese algae eaters and rasboras both originate from asia so should i get rid of those or will they be fine? It seems like Dwarf Sucker Mouth would be better suited then siamese so i might get those instead. And for the rasboras i could replace them with rummy-nose tetras because they are mid dwellers and the cardinals are more bottom dwellers. so ill have two different schools swimming around. Or i could always just get cardinals and no rasboras or rummynoses

edit: yup its a jebao, im glad you think there good i wasnt to sure if they would be or not

[MacGyver239]

i just did some calculations and my tank is 67 gallons! :D :( ... its good thank i have a big tank.. more fish capacity, etc..but now the canister wont be as suitable... or will it? well condidering these new findings will my canister still be suitable? how many changes a week will i have to do? or will it be fine considering i will be within the bioload of a 50 but with the capacity of a 67 gallon?

[Merrilyn]

A good rule of thumb is 4 adult discus per 10 gallons, so you're ok there.

Owww no I think that's a typo. It should read ONE adult discus per 10 gallons, or 40 litres of tank water.

I haven't heard about cycling using salt. Can you explain that further.

BTW welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy your time here.[/b]

[MacGyver239]

the salt thing is probably just a mistake im making. arent you supposed to have a little salt in the water to prevent disease? i was going to add some when i set up the tank which means it would be in there when i cycled it. and anyone know what psb bacteria is? the fish store guy said it will help cycle but i might have been scammed or something

[wickedglass]

A good rule of thumb is 4 adult discus per 10 gallons, so you're ok there.

Owww no I think that's a typo. It should read ONE adult discus per 10 gallons, or 40 litres of tank water.



Yes, you're absolutely right, ladyred, well spotted! I'm really sorry for mistyping that ... fixed now though. I did of course mean 1 adult discus per 10 gallons and that 4 adult discus are fine in a 50 gallon tank, but it all melted in together and came out all frizzed! Aaaargh, to think I could be the cause of potentially 1000s of people overstocking their tanks, I would never forgive myself!

[FishLover]

One thing I would add is to keep an eye on the PH level and test everything you put in the tank to make sure they do not increase your PH. I had to vacume out my old gravel because of that. Not an easy task for a big tank.

[Merrilyn]

the salt thing is probably just a mistake im making. arent you supposed to have a little salt in the water to prevent disease? i was going to add some when i set up the tank which means it would be in there when i cycled it. and anyone know what psb bacteria is? the fish store guy said it will help cycle but i might have been scammed or something

Salt is a good first line treatment for a discus that is looking a bit off colour, but I wouldn't just routinely have it in my tank. I want to reserve it for when I really need it.

I think all of those bacteria boosters will help a little, but they aren't the whole answer. There's lots of information of fishless cycling a tank right here on the fourm. Do a search, and you'll see what I mean.

[wickedglass]

As to questions concerning companion fish for your discus ...
One of the tanks my girl and I have set up is a 7ft long with several different tetras in it, neons, glowlights, albino glowlights (I recommend those, they look awesome under lights), ornate and glow-tips. The tetras tend not to hang out in their seperate schools and instead they mingle. I also have a 350 liter tank that's ready to put discus into with a rampaging herd of just glow-tips that's all over the tank until someone approaches it, and then they clump together to try and give the best impression of a big fish ... probably a shark, but it ends up looking more like a large amoeba! Personally I prefer a tank that has a single species of tetra in it, because they will appear more as a school than when different species school up. Although a school of rummy noses and cardinals would look pretty nice I think. Also I prefer a tank where all the fish come from the same zones, although fish from different origins can be happily kept together (as evidenced in my girlfriend's community tank, which is kind of like flinder's station at peak hour ... busy and lots of different nationalities!)
I think your idea of using dwarf sucker mouths (genus: otocinclus) is a good one. Otocinclus are definitely a very peaceful and will do well with discus, as well as coming from the same biotope.
One of the biggest considerations you might want to look at is temperature requirements. Discus tend to like it quite warm at 30C compared to a lot of other species. I do know that most tetras will do fine in water that warm and most cory species, too.
Best advice I can give you is to keep doing what you have been ... research and asking questions! And asking more questions, because as ladyred has (in not so many words) pointed out ... people make mistakes and there can be a lot of misinformation out there :) ... but in the end, if all the pieces of the puzzle fit and you like your options, go with it.
In regards to your filter, it should still be fine, as long as you don't go crazy with the size of the school(s)of your companion fish and do your water-changes.

[Merrilyn]

[
Yes, you're absolutely right, ladyred, well spotted! I'm really sorry for mistyping that ... fixed now though. I did of course mean 1 adult discus per 10 gallons and that 4 adult discus are fine in a 50 gallon tank, but it all melted in together and came out all frizzed! Aaaargh, to think I could be the cause of potentially 1000s of people overstocking their tanks, I would never forgive myself!

I enjoy reading your posts so much Chris, that you can make as many typos as you like and I'll fix them if necessary. Keep those posts coming. You have a great way of sharing knowledge, mixed with a little humour, and it's very refreshing. Thankyou.

[RichVic]

........... just did some calculations and my tank is 67 gallons! Very Happy Sad ... its good thank i have a big tank.. more fish capacity, etc..but now the canister wont be as suitable... or will it? well condidering these new findings will my canister still be suitable? how many changes a week will i have to do? or will it be fine considering i will be within the bioload of a 50 but with the capacity of a 67 gallon?

Hi there, Just going back to your comment (above) I think the calculations are a bit out... Accordingy to my chart, a tank 48inchesx18x14 is 40 gallons = 180litres and a tank of 72x18x14 is 60 gallons/280litres. HTH Vicki

[MacGyver239]

Hi there, Just going back to your comment (above) I think the calculations are a bit out... Accordingy to my chart, a tank 48inchesx18x14 is 40 gallons = 180litres and a tank of 72x18x14 is 60 gallons/280litres. HTH Vicki

hmm i just double checked the measurments. (and its 48x18x18, not sure if you knew that or misread)..anyway

http://fish-tank.freeservers.com/volume.html
says, if im reading it correctly, my tank would be 47 gallons.
http://www.ifocas.fsworld.co.uk/calculator.htm
on the other hand says its 67 gallons, as does
http://www.geocities.com/dick_pahimulin/tools/vcalc.htm
could someone please tell me which is right? and thanks a lot for all the advice everyones given so far it really helps

[FishLover]

Could be that some one was using US gallon in the calculation? It is smaller I think.

[wickedglass]

If you want to work it out metrically, it's

(length(cm) x height(cm) x depth(cm)) / 1000 = bare tank capacity in liters

if you want the true volume after gravel, rocks, driftwood and plants you'd need to do a displacement test ... ie fill up a bucket or other large container to the brim and then put everything you're putting in the tank (gravel etc) into the bucket and measure the amount of water which has run over the container. Then subtract that from the total volume of the bare tank, and you have your true water volume

[RichVic]

Hey McGyver
I did see that your measurement for depth was 18inches, but being a bit lazy, I just posted the "standard" tank on my conversion chart. I figured that the last 4inches could not account for 27more gallons! and you'd have to check!
So here I go again 48inches is 120cm, 18inches is 45cm
So we have 120x45x45 divided by 1000 and end up with 243litres which is'
roughly 50gallons (actually50gals is 230litres) and you will have to reduce this capacity for the sand, rocks or whatever else you add. If it were me I'd add the equivalent of 13litres then I'd know that I had a 50gal tank (wink- said i was lazy....). Vicki
This is an Australian conversion - I didn't know there was a smaller USA gal.

[rytis]

I recently ordered a 50 gallon tank (i think, the tank measurements are 4 feet long, 18 inches wide and 18 inches tall). I am planning on having about 4 discus, a school of cardinals, a school of harlequin rasboras, some type (maybe golden nugget) pleco, maybe a couple siamese algae eaters, and maybe a cory catfish or two, all in a planted (plants undecided) tank.
here is the set-up, please let me know if anything is good or bad, or needs to be changed
-4foot by 18 inch by 18 inch tank
-tank cover
-jeboa external filter-Flow rate: 1200 l/h (320G/h)
(filter media will be: filter wool, then activated carbon, then ceramic noodles with "biohome plus"sintered glass mixed in, and finally bio-balls)
-45 kg of gravel
-i will cycle it with salt and psb bacteria added to the water for maybe a week, then slowly begin adding plants, then cardinals, then discus, etc

anyway my main concern right now is filtration. will my canister be big enough if i routinely do a 20% or more water change every week? other things i am concerned about are am i exceeding the load of my tank? Is my filter media suitable, and if so is it in the best order in the canister?(i will make sure the carbon is not dusty)

any advice welcome, thanks in advance!
i would cut down to 4 discus, school of cardinals ok and one pleco. skip the rest looks smart.