Help with Sick Discus

[Bad Inferno]

I have 2 (out of 4) sick discus. These 2 are about 12 months old and has been to date perfect looking, what has happened in the last 32 hours:

1. PH has gone from 6.4 upto 6.8 as I turned off the CO2
2. I purchased a new discus (which is not exhibiting any signs of distress)
3. Fed them blackworm at lunch time from the dish that was quite murky ie they had not been washed for a couple of days.

Symptoms
1. Fins clamped
2. very dark
3. 1 facing back of tank
4. 1 skin is not smooth and looks like the slime coating is breaking down (see pic)

[url]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0117.jpg


The orange DOT on the fish is a reflection ! however there is a patch behind his side fins that seems to has lost his scale and the general condition is very bad.
Really need some help !!!! I will increase the temp from 29 to 31 tonight.

[Bad Inferno]

Maybe should of stated:

tank size 180litres (~40-50gal)
PH 6.3 -6.8 on-line ph probe (CO2 manual yeast method)
KH 1-2 deg
GH 5-6 deg
Temp 29
Water change 30% every 4 days
Eheim 2215 600l/hr
Internal (air stone driven) dual sponge filter
Fish load : 4 discus, red tail shark and 2 cat fish

I have increased temp to 30 degrees PH is now at 6.4 (CO2 backon) and dosed with 4-5 tablespoons of salt.

[Proteus]

Do you have any Metronidazole or Praziquantel???

I would be suggesting a full dose of Metro...

and keep the water as pristine as possible...

btw, welcome to DF.com - hopefully with some further advise we can get you through this, or at least do everything possible to help your little friend.

[Bad Inferno]

Thanks
I got some Flagyl 200mg/tablet so I put 6 tablets into my 180 litre tank, and was going to dose another 6 tablets each 12 hours. I have only 40 tablets so I will get three days out of it. Will also do a 25% water change per day prior to my next dose. Fish are still very dark and will clamp fins when stopped moving and go altiile side ways however are eating. As I only have one tank operational I have to dose all 4 fish.

All I did was to put 6 tablets into a net and let the tablets disolve in the tank, the tablets did not completly disolve however have white particals in suspension.

water temp 30 degrees PH 6.4..

I had also put 5 tablespoons of salt into the tank last night prior to getting Flagyl should I keep the salt up when I change the water or just forget the salt ?

Is this correct ? any other advice......

[Bad Inferno]

a little better tonight, still eating, have done 25% water change and dosed again with 5x200mg metro

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0128.jpg

[Proteus]

excellent news...

it still isnt out of the woods, but it does look better than in the first pic.

[Mattzilla]

i noticed in the first picture that you feed live black worms. in my opinion they are a source of parasites that cause illness in your discus. probably what made your discus sick. i have had the same problem in the past and i was due to feeding live black worms. your fish love them i know.... but they are just too risky in my opinion.

hth
matt

[Bad Inferno]

well its only been two days however the discus are showing signs of recovery. I only dose metro 5tablets@200g today with a 25% water change as I am not really sure of the dose. ...anyhow I dosed a total of 11 tablets day 1 and 5 tablets day 2 and tomorrow I may dose another 5 tab morn and 5tab night with 25% water change again.

Discus do colour up when eating however quickly turn dark, patches on right side are getting better. However my red tail shark today has a patch on his side so I will contiue the metro for another couple of days.

Current plan ..dose Metro for another 2 days making a total of 4 days then follow with 25% water changes and salt treatment for another 5 days.

Anybody know what the dose should be I've read 100,250&500mg per 10gal dosing from every 8 hours to once every other day !!!!!


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0139.jpg
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0143.jpg

[Mattzilla]

i would also add salt at 1 tbl spoon per 40ltrs for a week or so to help with any skin/scale problems. make sure it is pure salt and replace when doing water changes.

also try doing larger water changes. i mean when you think it is pretty much better i'd do 50% w/c for a week or so to help it fully recover

matt

[DiscusMad]

Bad Inferno
who has been picking at its fins?

[Bad Inferno]

On the fins issue...
I had three discus and the one that is really sick now was getting picked on by the bigger blue one. SO I fenced off the tank about 10 months ago . See pic's

[/img]: http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/

Now this weekend when I purchsed another discus and thought now I have four I will remove the partition and see if the agreesive one will be happier after 10 months of isolation !. As you can see it did not work and the larger blue discus just attacked it again. I know his fins look bad however now are getting alot better than what they where on the weekend. So back went the fence the agressive one and my orange one (& new one) tollerate each other so I put two fish each side of the fence.

On my sick issue
I will do the Salt treatment as well thanks. Both fish are still very dark and when stopped seems to clamp one of its side fins tight, however gill movement seems OK compared with my other fish. They are at the front of the tank and when approached (they seem happy to see you, I know that sounds crazzy) they colour back up however a couple of minutes later they will go very dark. Skin on both sick fish, although dark, now have a consistant look ie their slim coating is back. Havn't seen my shark this morning so don't know how he is traveling.

cheers

[Bad Inferno]

with two days of Flagyl under their belt the fish look very much better..

Changed 30% water however decided to give them a rest in Flagyl today on the basis they all seem very SLOW & SLEEPY tonight althoough they did eat. I have also read that you can dose Flagyl every second day and on the basis they are picking up I'll forget the dose today however give them one more dose (6 tab@200mg) tommorrow night after another water change. My shark still has a couple of sections of skin discoloured, don't know if it was caused by the same thing from my discus had or damaged himself chasing the other fish or he didn't like being drugged up with flagyl. I'll get some sea salt tomorrow and do the salt thing for the next week with the water changes and hopefully with one more Flagyl dose I can save some Flagyl tabs for the next emergency !!!!

I did not want to start a cemetery in our garden this weekend and looks like we will pull through.

http://rjconway.dynamikkreations.com.au/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=6

Hope this story may help others ?

[weird]

Hope your fish get better. Your tank seems to include species I would not not have thought suitable with Discus ... however I am vey new to discus, but have a nice 3 ft tank of rainbow tail shark (I think yours is a red tail shark from picture), bristlenoses, bala sharks and heaps of clown loaches - I am still wishing/begging for a 30 cm clown loach lol, and quite a few exceptional others.

The best tank mates for discus with the little research I have done seem to be rams, or rummy-nose tetras. But your tank looks beautiuful, best of luck.

[Merrilyn]

Had two small red tail sharks (I like the look of them too) in with my discus for a while but found they would suck on the sides of the discus, especially some of the juvies. Just something to watch. Hope your fish are still improving.

[Bad Inferno]

I would NOT recommend a red tail shark however he has been with me for 2 years (prior to Discus) and is a great looking fish. I think he scrap's himself sometimes on the holes in my perspex divider as he swims through. He does have a very occasional suck on only one of the discus (only for a second as he swims by). If it got excessive I would have to find a new home for him in heaven.

[Bad Inferno]

OK......what I ended up doing is a followup Flagyl on Friday night 4x200mg although the fish had been looking real good on Friday (after two days) I assumed like any antibiotic that you should finish the course. I used in the end 20 tablets over that 3-4 days and they are all happy now. I did not end up doing the salt as I was concerned what the salt would do to my plants. I know thats sound crazy however as the fish are looking so good and all skin area's had healed I decided not to proceed

Does Salt effect plants...I was not sure

Thanks for all your help We would of had a little ceremony if not for "Discus forum" !

[Bad Inferno]

It's now been 1 month without re-infection so I deem my fishies are clean and very happy.....I still got 20 tablets left for which I will keep in an emergency.

I have left my temp at 30degrees up from 28.5 what I used to run at.

PS I threw my worm feeders away so I will not be tempted to purchase those live wriggling things my fish did so much very like.

[Proteus]

as we start to come into the warmer months I would suggest dropping the temp back to 28'ish... the last thing you want is a warm day and the temp to go up a few degrees...

[africandiscus]

Does anyone know where you can get the divider from in the 1st image?

Thanks

[Chris McMahon]

Does anyone know where you can get the divider from in the 1st image?Looks homemade to me. A sheet of perspex and a hole cutter should be all you'll need. Another way to go is light diffuser (egg crate) cut to size.

[flukes]

Bad Inferno -

Which Vet did you get your metro from? Did you have to make an appointment or did you just walk in and ask if he could prescribe it?

[africandiscus]

Where do you get perspex from?

I searched the yellow pages and cant find anyone who sells it

[flukes]

look under plastics.

[Bad Inferno]

Flukes.
I went to three vets all saying they do not stock it however sent my wife (trusting face !) and hey presto with a phone call from the vet to me at work to understand if I knew the doses he did give us 40x200mg tabs. The vet actually wrote up a card for my discus and filed it !!!! Took a picture of the fish in as well.

You need to find a small vet in your area. I was told there was a vet in naree warren who also provide metro

[africandiscus]

Why didnt you get the 400mg ones and have spare?

[Bad Inferno]

At the time I was glad to get anything...had enough trouble over the qty of 40...actually only ended up using half so I have 20 spare...I think I could of probably used less during those three days, and now I will have additional tanks setup I feel better prepared to create a hospital tank if required.

I have now got two 30" tanks (internal overflow) 24" sump. heaters/pump and bioballs arrived today. Plan to test this weekend then startup in 2-3 weeks time. Looking for some good stock, probably try OAFI...he had some pairs and some good looking snakeskin Juvi's. I hope the pump is big enough to do the two tanks and UV. Planing to just run the UV back into the sump.

[flukes]

Tell you what go to OAFI, pick out the pair you want from him. Give me the money he is asking and ill get you a better quality pair than his. (and i ll make a bit of money of it) :wink:

Serisouly you can get better quality for cheaper than that, just have too look outside the square you live in - IKEA.

[Escher]

And that's what you call Freedom ... of choice! :wink: