plants turning to mush

[Nathan]

ive recently had to move all my plants due to adding a large peice of driftwood. before they were just planted and was using seachem flourish once a week. there was no co2 system and most of the plants were photosynthesizing in the tank with oxygen coming out of the leaves.

ive added fert tabs for some of the plants and some of the leaves have been dying and turning to mush (due to high temp, im assuming) and i have also added a co2 system, and none of the plants are bubbling

any ideas?

nathan

[Nathan]

the plants are starting to die off now, im not sure why, any adivice or ideas as how to fix it?

nathan

[OscarManAlpha]

G'day Nathan,

Can you provide more info please.

What size is your tank ? Dimensions and how many liters ?

What lights do you have 1xfluro ect ect.

What temp is your tank ?

What is your PH and what is your KH ?

How many hours do you have your lights on ?

What species of plants do you have ?

Any chance of a photo ?

Cheers,

Mark

[Nathan]

the tank is 3 ft long, 140l. the temp is 29-30 (has discus in it). the ph is 7-7.2, kh not sure dont have a testing kit for it. 1x fluoro 30w t-8 its on for 9 hours a day. also have a yeast co2 system on for 9.5 hours a day. the plants that seem to be dying are the hygro and rush especially, also amazon sword, i also have crypt and annubias but they seem to be fine. ive been using seachem flourish and also have seachem tablets 1 between 2 of the bigger plants.

i think thats it


nathan

[Nathan]

sorry aslo im using a subtrate sorry cant remember what its called :oops:

nathan

[nicholas76]

that is a really nice red earth substrate!

shame you cant recall the name

say Mark, is there such thing as a good quality cheap substrate??

noticed those nice black coloured ones are like $69 for 5 kg,,,, dang id go broke trying to fill my new tank!

[Nathan]

the stuff i bought was $30 a kg im pretty sure!

nathan

[OscarManAlpha]

Nathan first off nice tank and lay out mate.

It seems you are keen to get those plants on the go.

From what I can tell your limiting factor here is the lights.

May I suggest you add another 2 strips of fluro.

If budget is a concern I would go for the Aqua One 3ft double, it comes with some tubes included in the price, they are decent and will work.

After 9 months to a year you can replace, with tubes of your choice.

You can run your lights and Co2 for longer periods. Once you get the lights try 10-12 hours.

You may want to add some more bunch plants ( try some Wisteria and hygrophilia polysperma )

All so make sure you do regular water changes ( Amano changes the water 1/3 once a week and on some tanks he changes water once a day also a 1/3 ). Thus you can avoid green water and brush algae.

As far as the liquid ferts I would keep adding them once you get the lights. Just follow the manufactures recommendation.

Do not add any more root tabs for a while. Once the lights are sorted out the Swords will respond. Observe them and if you see they need a boost ( you will know when ) add a ½ or whole tablet depending on the plants size.

As far as the rush is concerned, it may not be a true aquatic plant the one you have.

Once you get the lights on update the pic's after 10 day's.

I would love to see the results.

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[Nathan]

thanx mate yeah ill look into the lights, ive been wanting to get a lot more plants for the front area more crypt and chain sword, any other plants you could suggest that would look?

but as the rest havnt been going to well then i didnt see the point in buying some plants thatl probly die.

yeah im pretty keen on this tank as its probly the last tank that ill have in the house so i want it to look good, anyway yeah ill have a look around for the lights probly on the weekend, as the light i have now is pretty crappy but wasnt sure if its do the job or not (obviously wont)

thanks again mate
p.s im running a uv steriliser thatl help with algea control to certain degree wont it? anyway the water changes wont be a problem
nathan

[OscarManAlpha]

Nathan the lights are avilable on line if you don't have a reasonably priced retailer in your area.

They go upto $160 or more in some shops so check online first for prices.

The lights being your limiting factor keep the one you have just add a 3ft double.

Then you can grow those plants.

A friend of mine bought plants from a sponser of this site and they were perfect and a great price, extensive range aswell ( APW ) .

Many of the those plants will grow under 3 lights in your tank.

Just remember to add some stem plants. Alway's good as they give you instant ( well almost ) feedback as to how well the Co2 ect is performing.

Also while choosing the plants you can browse onto the tropica site for more info on lighting requirements ect.....

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[Nathan]

is the sponsor apw? also with the more lights they wont bother the discus will they?

nathan

[OscarManAlpha]

is the sponsor apw? also with the more lights they wont bother the discus will they?

nathan

Yes the sponser is APW : ) I have edited my post thanks : )

As for the Discus i'll leave that for someone else to answer : )

Just thought I'd that nitrate in the water seems to bother my Discus more than anything else and one of them nibbles at the Wisteria plant luckily it grows faster than the Discus can eat it : )

Cheers,

Mark

[Nathan]

i cant quite remember but does the plants prouduce or absorb the nitrates! im tired i cant remember give me a break

nathan

[OscarManAlpha]

i cant quite remember but does the plants prouduce or absorb the nitrates! im tired i cant remember give me a break

nathan

Dude I don't want to get scientific but the fact Amano does regualr water changes as I mentioned before suggests it's neccesary for plants and Discus.

IMHO He does it to avoid nasty algae growth....And that's why I do them !! And because my Discus love it !!!

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[OscarManAlpha]

say Mark, is there such thing as a good quality cheap substrate??

noticed those nice black coloured ones are like $69 for 5 kg,,,, dang id go broke trying to fill my new tank!

Nick are you wanting to have a full on planted tank ??

If so i'm afraid the answer is no.

By the time you find a suitable for aquarium use black substrate in the right grain size it buy itself will cost you a fair amount.

Then if you want to grow plants in it you will need to add a fair amount of laterite which is going to further add to the costs.

Then that laterite is most probably going to be red in colour and i'm afraid then it would ruin the effect you are after.

Keep in mind that every time one plans the next tank in our lives we wan't it to be better than the one before it.

One thing that bothers me about mine is the colour, 4 years ago it was ok but now it just has to be black.

Also when I remove a large sword or Lotus or just play around with the layout which is something people do with planted tanks. ( it's fun ) I always disturb the laterite and would prefer not to have a cloud of red particles come up with the root's.

When I last moved house I had to strip my tank ( no problem ) and remove the substrate so the tank was completely empty.

Problems I uncounted then was even though I filled the tank really gently the red particles were everywhere and it took many water changes and cleaning of filters to get the water clear and then the laterite had to be replaced ( more money and time down the drain )

I think if you planed your layout well you could get away with less of the black subtrate.

I'm going to do a large planted tank 8x2x2 at some stage and a little 2ft tank, both with the top of the line ADA substrate Co2 injection and hopefully T5 lights but not for a little while.

Obviously after doing many hundreds or thousands of planted tanks Amano has tried to improve on each one just like we do.

Thus his products have evolved through thorough R&D guess he got fed up with the laterite clouding the water.

Keep in mind also it can be used for 5 years and well beyond that so you don't have to muck around with it..

Will you still have the tank in 5 years ??

I will still have mine : )

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[OscarManAlpha]

Nathan any chance you can get a close up picture of the hydro and rush plants for me ?


Cheers,

Mark

[Nathan]

yeah sure thing, ill have em posted tomorrow afternoon

nathan

[sharn]

plants absorb nitrates but because discus need lots of water changes to eliminate these you need to supplement feeding of your plants. if you have it really heavily planted you may no get no nitrate reading as the plants would absorb it all.

[nicholas76]

cheers Mark.

I generally wont do it at all if i cant do it properly. And in this case ,,yes budget is a factor so I wont be able to do it justice and I cant go for the heavy planted look.

I wouldnt mind using sand again. Your opinions on using this as a substrate please.

I remember years ago I used pool filter sand, this was nice and clean however the algae explosion made me remove it very quickly.

I'm having a vision of a sandy river bed theme with drift wood. Your thoughts again Mark, perhaps some hardy swords,, are there any hardy plants ( any simple colourful types ) to meet this type of bio type

again your opinion? can this be done?


thanks again.

[OscarManAlpha]

G'day Nick,

I'll have a crack at this : )

What lights will you be using Nick ?



I wouldn't mind using sand again. Your opinions on using this as a substrate please.

Havent tried myself but have seen it used, infact Ladyred has a beautiful 5ft with swords and an open area for the discus to graze from. Those I do believe where from APW and they are huge.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6346


I'm having a vision of a sandy river bed theme with drift wood. Your thoughts again Mark, perhaps some hardy swords,, are there any hardy plants ( any simple colourful types ) to meet this type of bio type

I remember seeing a low tech tank at a friend of a friends place and they had some really awesome Crypts going on in there really threw me they were cranking.

The thing about those Crypts was the beautiful brown/rusty/red colour in them. Look around on the APW site for Crypts they have many.

Then cross reference to the Tropica site for details of the growth requirements. ( APW has got the details as well )

Many of the Crypts not all are described as being low-high in light requirement which means they may take off in low light ( they will )

Growth on most is medium speed which is good for your proposed set-up.

Just make sure you start with a good few so the tank looks good from the get go, try not to wait a year for them to take off.

And the demands of most but not all of the Crypts is described as easy.

Also some are tall and others are short and they have some great leaf shapes going on, and colour variety.

Also they are very reasonable in price so you can really spoil yourself.

Try a few varieties see what takes off....work with them : )

Short for the front, medium for the middle and tall for the rear. You can then hide the filter heater ect ect.

Not too many Crypt tanks on the net and when one does get the opportunity to see one it's impressive ( your friends will be most jealous, heck I'm now wanting to have a go at a Crypt tank )

I personally due to the fact there are so many different Crypts, would try to just stick with them in my mind the effect would be more stunning.

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[OscarManAlpha]

G'day Nick,

Just had another thought ( oop's )

In the rear of the tank as from memory your new rig is tall you could put some Val in.

Just add a couple of iron balls in that area as they like a little bit of richness in the substrate JBL has the 7 ball I think its called. It will shoot out some runners for you then : )..

Also on the wood maybe strap on some nice java ferns with fish line.

And you could also try some Wisteria just to keep things in check. It's leaves may pale
if you don't add a basic liquid fert to the water column. You can monitor it, as once you add the fert the green will reappear on the leaves ( hope that makes sense ) it bounces back rapidly after the addition of some iron.

These additions should also present little or no problems for you.

Again HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[OscarManAlpha]

Nick,

If you think of the wood in the back and the addition of the fish it may look a bit like this picture.

My photo shop skills leave alot to be desired don't they :lol:

Cheers,

Mark

[nicholas76]

Ahh very good the research begins regarding those crypts!

any issue with sand mate?>

[nicholas76]

mate your paint shop work is great! :D


you should start doing people quotes ! :D

that lay out I do genuinely like!!, now I just need to hunt down a list of "parts". My 4 x 2 x 2 will take a bit to fill. I'll need to determine how many of each I will need and will also need to find the drift wood to suit it.

Oh by the way the light on the tank are 48" double light reflector and globes. I sold my MH for some extra $$ some months ago! :oops:

I take delivery in a few days so ill have a closer look then.