pH and temperature for Apistos...

[foo]

Hi to all those with apisto fever... i know i do... hehehehe

I am wanting to start an apisto tank that is heavily planted and with maybe one discus in it... At the moment I have a 50litre tank that is heavily planted and was wondering wat I need to know before taking the plunge...

I have discus but not sure if the water conditions are the same for both...

My planted tank is at pH6.5 with light salt content... do i need to change any of the water perimeters... at the moment my discus are in a 250litre tank and are used to a pH of 6.6 - 6.4 and at 32°C... i have rams that are awesome in those water conditions...

I am thinking of getting 'inka 50s' but want to know if the above water conditions would be okay for them...

Thanks

Pete

[steph]

HI Pete

The pH is fine the temperature would be too hot for most Apistos, they prefer in the 25-27C range.

Blue Rams would be ok up to 30C

What size is your 50litre? Apistos love a heavily planted tank, it makes them feel very comfortable. Soft water is preferable, so Im not sure what you mean by a light salt content.

Cheers

Steph

[foo]

Hi Steph,

Coool... thanks for feedback...

I think its been a habit to add abit of salinity to the water i guess... since it helps the fish fight against bacteria and other nasties...

hmmmm maybe i wont have a discus together with the apistos if the temperature is at 25°C... might be too cold for them...

the planted tank is 1.8x 1.8x 1.8.. i've got 2 arf gouramis in there at the moment... but would like apistos 'inka 50s' or similiar tooo...


Pete

[parkap]

Hi Pete,

When I did my first dislay tank set up a few years ago, I had discus with other community fish. Then a very kind LFS owner suggested a.cacatuoides as an additional community fish - and hence my love affair with apistogrammas began.

However what I found over time is exactly what steph has suggested, the pH is fine for discus and apistogrammas but the water temperature isn't. I tried to find a happy medium and set the water temp at the top end for apistos and bottom for discus - approx. 27.5.

All seemed to be doing great - although this was merely a display tank and I wasn't encouraging any breeding, etc. The impact of this "happy" medium in temperature ws that while everything was good, it was good, but as soon as I got one little disease outbreak, it went crazy as the water parameters weren't optimal for either of them.

However, even more than now, I had very little knowledge on good husbandry for fish let alone, specific species. If you do you research you might be able to find an apisto species that can handle higher temperatures.

Peter.

[Th0mas]

Despite lots of people believed apisto and discus can co-exist in a tank, but like parkap mentioned, it balance that can tip either way easily.

Although discus pH might be okay for some apisto (cacs, trifasciata, aggie, etc). It is not optimal for others (panduro, veijita, etc). The average pH of my apisto grow out tank is about 5, but can be up to 6.5 at the time of water change.

Then there is the instinct of discus going after apisto. I've seen a pack of hungry discus destroyed several newly introduced apisto in a matter of minutes. Not a nice sight indeed.

Hence your selection will be limited if the plan is to keep discus and apisto in the same tank. The higher temperature will also reduce the lifespan of apisto (as if they're not short enough already).

Thomas.

[foo]

Ladies and Gents.... Thank you for ur feedbacks and experiences with apistos..

I have taken in ur feedback and weighed the pros and cons in keeping discus and apistos in the same tank.... basically its not worth it...

I think my main concern is if there is a fungal infection then its going to be a hair tearing experience and a constant worry... especially if apistos cannot handle higher temperatures... it will be a whole new text to treating fungal or infections without the aid of temperature and salt... sigh..

I also learnt that feeding discus worms is a positive thing and is encouraed by many especially a mixed diet... but if that little apisto get its mouth on a few of that black worm and red worm then it will die tooo... so feeding habits will also be different and my discus isnt gonna like it if they dont get worms in their tummy...

From what i have read... apistos are sensitive to medications that can be used safely on discus... so i think after careful consideration... i might have to leave the lush green and red fauna for just apistos and leave my discus as they are...

Also dont really want to see an inka 50 sticking out of my discus's mouth too... ouch...

... I really want an inka 50... and would like advise on other apistos that would do great with it... and how many can be kept in a 50litre... im thinking 2 or 3...

I'll be correcting the water parameters tonight and hopefully be able to get afew this weekend...

correct me if i'm worng...

pH = 6.5
temperature = 25 - 27°C
No need for salt...

can i have dwarf gouramis together??


Pete

[steph]

Your best bet is to get 2 or 3 A. baenschi (Inka 50) in the tank. IF its very heavily planted you may be able to keep 2 pairs but easily 1 M 2F.

If you only want males then maybe an A. agassizi or A. borelli as well. _most_ apistos mix, aggressiveness comes down to individuals not species.

Cheers

Steph

[Th0mas]

One species you'll need to avoid at all cost - the panduro.

So far I've found the baenschi is pretty agressive, and panduro is probably the most agressive species I've seen so far.

I do have both species hosted in the same tank, but with plenty of other apisto that divert their agression on.

Whenever the male of baenschi and panduro come together, you'll expect both to flare up pretty quickly. In my case, the panduro will always be the winner as they're older fish (about twice the size of the biggest male Inka I have).

The last time I went and checked (last week), there are still Inkas of both genders available.

Thomas.

[wickedglass]

I keep my A. caetei in a tank at 28C and they're thriving, but discus like it a couple of degrees higher than that. Although in saying that, I've successfully kept and bred discus at 27C.

[fishgeek]

dwarf cichlids are very wide ranging and all of the above comments are true

they do however range from 20- 30degree temperatures in nature , higher temperatures are not to be permanent and usually coincide with breeding
certainly in nature these fish are usually annuals , not surviving longer than the dry season as adults
temperature fluctuations are important for increasing life span both seasonally and diurnally

asto pH and harness most can be maintained between 6.5 and 7.5 pH
and almost all can be bred at hardness of less than 10 Gh

i ahve neever attempted to keep discus so i will not comment on their compatability

andrew

[foo]

Hi All,

YahoOOoo... i got the little boy inka 50 and he is doing great... its only been afew days since i got him but he is doing great and is flaring up to two female rams...

i might give it a week or two... just to make sure i have all the parameters covered and understand this fish well before thinking of getting a queen inka 50 for him... hehehehe...

by the way... no discus as a tankmate... i've chosen for two female rams instead... they seem to put up with his bad manners but hey... he's only fish...

pete

[catfishbone]

hey pete ...

how's your inka ??? my pucallpaensis is doing well ... :) they have their own tank now ... trying to grow them up first before put it together with my rams and other ... :)

so when you getting a new inka ??? since your missus away for a month ??
ahahhaha :)

andrie

[Th0mas]

Hey Pete,

Don't get too excited with the Inka being extra terrtorial, as I've found mine is also alike. Once they've settled in, they will go around and chase everything off (female Inka, veijita that's doubling their size, agassizi, bitaeniata, corydora, etc). The only species that hold their ground are the panduro, which is also twice his size.

The dominant male Inka (also have a sub which doesn't colour up as intense nor as agressive) has tried to chase the panduro off, but got hit back BIG time. He has not gone and chase off the panduro every since that incident.

When you introduce the female, just make sure he's not going to kill her (he was very agressive to all the female Inkas in the tank). So far I've found mine a bit too agressive and every fish just swim aways as soon as they have him in sight.

Thomas.

[foo]

Hey Andrie,

Maybe next week I'll start looking for a female inka 50 for the little fella... heehehehehehehe...

He's got a really bright orange tail at the moment but hasnt fully matured yet... i think theres still a long way to go...

he looks like ur fighters when he flares at the other fish.. heheheee

i wanted to get pucallpensis tooo but all sold out when i went there... too slow... again..

Pete

[catfishbone]

hey pete ....

will come over this fri to your place .. will have a look at your inka again if i can find it ... hahahha :)

ok when the next time i went to SLS if they have one i give you a call .. :)

andrie

[foo]

Hi Thomas,

yeahhh.. I was thinking of putting the female in a baby trap until the male inka 50 gets used to her being around... would that help or is that just a waste of time??

Unless the only way is to put the female straight in and keep a close eye on her... I dont think my inka 50 is dat agressive.. he flares and chases away other fish but he doesnt bite them... he flares then moves back to his little hole... hehehehehehe

Also wat is their colour morphis like?? Do they start off orange then starts turning to red?? and the body starts having a light tinge of blue??

How long did it take for ur inka 50 to show its full color??


Pete

[foo]

Hi Andrie,

one sure way of getting him out is to put food in the tank... try it on friday when u come over... just put in abit of the sera fish flakes and he'll come out... huahahahhahaha

I'll be doing a big water change tonight... and maybe trim the plants back abit...

see u on friday...


Pete

[steph]

Also wat is their colour morphis like?? Do they start off orange then starts turning to red?? and the body starts having a light tinge of blue??

How long did it take for ur inka 50 to show its full color??


Pete

HI Pete

Ive had mine since early February - in two months he has almost doubled in size and now has a more extended dorsal, showing yellow across the tips, the ventral fins are extended and bright yellow on the tips. Lots of speckly blue across the body and the colour in the tail fin has intensified to be a good red band on the rim, and inside the band is yellow as well. He still shows a lot of black barring and markings but they are always mood dependant anyhow.

I am trying to get a decent pic of him but he's too quick most of the time.

Cheers

Steph

[foo]

Thanks for that Steph....

I have been wanting a time period on when i should expect changes in the growth and colour but i also know that it defers from fish to fish... but at least you gave me a rough guide and estimate......

hauhahahahha... i know exactly wat u mean.. it may look like a kodak moment when i push the button but when the image actually comes out its either of its orange bum or nothing there at all....

i actually wanted to post up my inka's colour changes and growth... thats the main reason why i started taking photoes but just cant seem to get one... or a nice one..

Steph... u hsould post it up once u get a nice pic of ur inka 50s...

Pete