Ph crash prevention

[RichVic]

Hi to all
I'm wondering if I can get some advice regarding the use fo shellgrit to stop Ph crashes. I was finding that the Ph down continued to lower Ph in the tank ie if I put in water of Ph 7 it would drop to 6.5 which I only noticed because the fish complained - they get all dark on me..... SO, does a "handful in each corner" maintain the Ph (which I have lowered in the waterchange container) or does it increase it over a period of time? Basically tap is 7.2 & same after 24hrs, I've been using Ph down to get it to 7 for waterchanges but then it jumps to 7.6 in the tank over a couple of days and I cannot imagine why. The fish darken up and the lines blur a bit and sure enough the ph is swinging again. HELP !
Vicki & Richard

[FishLover]

Use Discus Buffer. That will soft the water and keep the PH down and stable. Follow the instructions and treat water before add to the tank.

You may want to check all decos in your tank to make sure they don't increase your PH level. Use the simple acid test (put some PH down on the deco or gravel and if it react to it, then the deco increase your PH level) and take out anything that changes your PH level.

PH down will not soft water. The PH will bounce back within hours after you put it in if your water is hard. The up and down swings are really bad for the discus.

After you are sure these is nothing in the tank that changes your PH, you can use Discus Buffer to lower the PH in the tank. Keep the change of PH within .3 for every 24 hours. That way the discus will not be stressed too much.

After that, you only need to use Discus Buffer with the new water you are going to add in the tank. That should give you a stable PH. Make sure your PH reader is accurate too.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Vicki and Richard, the pH is very much related to the KH and GH of your tap water. You really need to know what you're working with before altering any of the readings.

Our water in Melbourne is very soft at the moment, with a GH of 2 or less and a pH of under 7. That means there are no buffers in the water to stop a pH crash. Adding shellgrit to your tank will help to increase the calcium in your water, and buffer the pH.

This works if your water is very soft, but you need to know you own water paramaters out of the tap.

Take a clean glass and fill it with tapwater. After an hour, measure your pH, GH and KH. Test again after 24 hours and post those readings here, then we can try to help you.

[RichVic]

Hi Ladyred - Hmmm... you always send me off shopping (grin) - I have a test kit called "hardness" by aquasonic. I have 3 books but none give me the Kh or Gh, they're all about dCH cabonate hardness but not talking your talk. Its too bad I'm in the bush and Local shop stocks limited range. Happy to buy over the net from sponsors if you can recommend a complete set of water kits please? Anyway I did the test from tap and again after 24hrs and its pretty much the same as yours - around 2. I add the hardness up stuff (aquasonic water conditioner) each water change, so the tank is around 6. I did have shell grit (handful in stocking) at both ends of tank but the Ph kept going up thru the roof so I've taken it out now and Ph has remained at 7 even though I add it at 6.5 in the 50% water change every other day. Thanks for your time. Vicki

[RichVic]

Hi fishlover and thanks for your help.
The tank has only one anubius on small driftwood and a few plants in a long thin plastic pot, planted in finer gravel. I tried just having them in a glass cage like prisoners under bright light interrogation as some other discus lovers do - but well I just couldnt do it. In a tank this size (200L) with 50L water changes per day -surely half a dozen plants couldn't cause swings?? -

[DiscusMan]

The idea of a filter is to also lower the PH.

The organisms in teh filter are there to break down the waste etc of the fish and the result is a lowering of the PH. Mini reefs or sump filters really show this up faster than a canister filteras well. Cleaning your filter is also something you can do if it is really dirty.

I would jsut add this onto the other advice that is already here as i agree with that advice as well.

i would also say that using PH is not really soemthign i would recommend. Even for people with a PH out of the tap in the 8's. After leaving your water sitting for a while the PH will most probably drop as LAdy red suggest. So after 24hour the water will probably be suitable for adding straight to your tank, therefore saving you the cost of buying the PH down as well.

hope you figure out a solution that works for you.

Wayne

[RichVic]

Hi Wayne and thanks for helping, I know the filter can lower Ph, what I couldn't get my head around was it going up from 7.o to 7.6+ within 2 days
and this while I'm adding 6.5ph in the water changes. I have a canister with
the ceramic noodles, a blue sponge, "wool" stuff and activated carbon in the four baskets. Do any of these not belong in a discus set-up? I am cleaning the filter in tank water at least once a week, usually twice in the past 2 weeks
thanks again
Vicki

[Merrilyn]

In a tank this size (200L) with 50L water changes per day -surely half a dozen plants couldn't cause swings?? -

Hi Vicki, no it's not your plants, but I do think it may be the gravel they are planted in, that is causing your pH swings.

If your pH is increasing, and the reading is higher than your tap water, then something in your tank is causing the change. If you've removed the shellgrit, then it can only be the gravel or crystals. Take some of the gravel, put it in a glass of tap water, and measure the pH each day for a week. A steady increase will tell you definately if the gravel is the culprit.

The other thing that could be a problem, is adding the blue water hardness crystals at each water change. It's not really necessary for discus, who like soft slightly acid water. It's used more for Rift Lake Cichlids and goldfish who prefer harder water with a higher pH.

I think we need to simplify things a little for you, because sometimes in our efforts to make things 'perfect' we cause unnecessary problems for outselves. So I'm going to suggest you stop using the blue crystals. You do need a dechlorinator of some kind, and most of them come in a liquid form, and you just add the required amount to your change water. That won't affect the hardness of your water, it simply removes the chlorine.

Your tap water is actually just about perfect for discus, just the way it is. It's soft, and has a pH of around 7 after standing, just what we want :)

I'd remove the carbon from your filter, and toss it away. Replace it with another layer of filter floss, or noodles, and your filter can run for at least a month before you need to clean it again.

[RichVic]

Hi Ladyred and thanks so much for all your energy and patience, I do hope you're health has improved. So the hardness of 2 is okay? My book said ideal hardness was 10 to 15 so you can imagine my eagerness to get it closer to that. At one point it was at 1 (or less than 20ppm) and this is when I began using the blue crystals to raise it, slowly...
My husband jokes that we never had water restrictions in the country (which is true, BTW) until I got the discus !! He reckons we're teetering on the edge now. I've pm'd you as well.
Vicki