Using peat moss to lower pH in Apistogramma tank

[parkap]

Hi All,

I've been using liquid pH down to maintain my tanks pH at around 6.2-6.3. Howver I don't want ot ahve to keep using chemicals. I have a few pices of wood in my tank that leach tanins into the water but this doesn't have a huge impact on the pH. The tap water comes out at about 7-7.2 pH.

I know you can use peat moss to lower pH for blackwater environments, however how do you ensure there's no nasty additives like fertilisers in the packet? I found one brand that had nothing on the labels about additives until I read the very fine print on the warning section that said it "may" include fertilisers.

Does anyone know of good, safe brands of peat moss to buy?

I've also seen peat granules at one of my LFS's (JBL brand). But this is pretty expensive. Has anyone used these? If so, how do they compare to actual peat moss?

p.

[wickedglass]

I use peat granules in my filters, Tetra brand, I get a big box for $14 and it lasts for quite a while. It is sure not to contain fertiliser.
As for a comparison, the granules ARE actual peat moss ... just rolled into little round shapes on the thighs of Cuban virgins. Ok, ok, maybe not the virgins.
The way I add them to my filters is to get some filter matting, splice it into 2 sheets and by sewing around the edges (rough sewing job, too) I make a pocket for the peat to go into and then sew the whole thing shut ... just like a peat pillow. keeps it all nice and neat ... when the peat runs out I just throw the whole thing away ... works like a charm. I also boil it for a short time before putting them in, to kill any organic nasties (just in case) that might be in the peat. The boiled peat enriched water is ok to put in the tank, when it's cooled down of course, so you don't lose any of the peat goodness. Your fish will love you for peat! Just be careful if you're keeping longfin varieties of fish like tetras, I've found that having them in blackwater makes them very susceptible to fin-rot ... my apistos love it, though, and are all healthy and perky! (and don't blame me for having long-finned phantom tetras, my girlfriend in a fit of love for me bought them as a surprise)
as for peat from nurseries, I don't trust it ... never have ... damn backstabbing, evil, communist nurserypeat!

cheers
Chris

[wickedglass]

Oh, speaking of boiling water ... It decreases the carbonate hardness by boiling out the chalk content if there is any, and used in conjunction with peat, does very well to create a nice environment for those blackwater apistos.
Again, I must stress not to put the water in boiling!
But wait till it's cold. I know it seems obvious, but you never know who reads the posts.
I only do this with smaller breeding tanks I have, I can't be bothered with the big ones. Boiling so much water is time consuming. Put the water into an enamelled bucket to cool, or leave it in the pot, as who knows what a galvanised bucket leaches into the water, and plastic is inadvisable for the obvious reasons.

[steph]

Thats the only way I used to do it - make peat tea. If you are a fanatic about adding warm water to your tank (like certain tropheus keepers I know) you can add the warmer tea to your buckets to bring the water change up to temp, otherwise the longer it steeps the better it is.

Peat tea is good for super lazy fish keepers like me, you dont have to open up the filter thingy every water change, just put the tea on in the morning, and water change in the afternoon.

I did use a garden variety peat - $5 for a small bale which in several years I probably used about 5% of *heh* I did check for fertilisers etc but I think came to the same conclusion, not 100% sure it didnt have anything but it never caused any obvous ill effects.

No, Peter, dont ask me, I cant remember the brand, sorry ... a plastic green and white package ?!?!?!?!?!?!?


steph

[wickedglass]

I forgot to mention that I use the pillows in a hangon filter in lieu of their standard slot in filter cartridges,
i got it from

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod642.htm

cheapie at $20 and it works a treat ... this is for a 4ft tank and it really does wonderful things to the water.
they also have filters for smaller tanks from only $12

[Ben]

Have you tried catappa leaves?

or the catappa leaf tea bags like link below.

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1271.htm

I have used them before on discus but not on apisto's.

Good stuff to use.

Ben

[Proteus]

Cattapa leaves are good, but I have found in an aquarium over 250L in capacity it doesnt really have a huge effect (in a smaller tank or breeding setup it is the bees knees).

My personal favourites are the AquaMedic AquaPeat plates (high quality and great for any type of filter), Eheim EhfiTorf, JBL Tormec and Sera Super peat. (the AquaMedic & JBL would be my top 2)

[fishgeek]

parkap , depending on what species of swarf cichlid/ apisto you are trying to breed you may not need to worry with altering your ph too much
rather just stop adding dissolved compounds to the water

conductivity/hardness/total dissolved solids or which ever of these you use to test the number of things dissolved in your water is more important
of course some blackwater species do require extremes of ph though this is not the case for all of this group of fish

if you are wanting to acidify your water then peat will work depending on your alkalinity will have variable effects

i have always used garden variety "pure sphagnum peat moss" look for the pure and no additives on the bag
the brands i have had success with or other have recommended (i'm in england though!!) are irish peat and canadian peat that is sold over here

i find that this is a safe affordable way to manage if your water does not have high buffering ability
otherwise removing some alkalinity prior to treating with peat maybe neccesary
i tend to leave peat in a water butt with my water standing, others i know aerate or circulate , i just occasionally stir
when i do water changes i at least know what pH the water is and know that peat in the filter is not going to keep changing the pH as the water flows past it
gives me peace of mind anyway

if you are worried about fertiliser in a bag of peat then just mix it with water then run ammonia/nitrate/nitrite test's in it
the peat tea is a great one for sth american fish they love the blackwater extract type effect it has

andrew

[Proteus]

New Zealand peat is the good stuff down here

[parkap]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

wickedglass,

How do you know when the peat granules have run out? Can you actually notice a difference - I'm guessing you tell by the amount of leeching output that comes from them?

Steph,

In using the peat tea, do you mean you make the tea up then put it in the water your about to put into the actual tank for a water change, then put all that into the tank as part of the water change process? So you don't actually put any peat in your filter system anywhere?

Thanks,
Peter.

[wickedglass]

I usually change my peat bag every 3 - 4 weeks as a norm ... I don't have any idea really when the granules run out, but I figure that around 3 weeks is ok, because the fish are happy as Larry (although no one ever told me who the heck Larry is ... or why he's so happy). The bags I make up are about 15cm x 12cm and stuffed to bursting.
Another word of advice would be not to run activated carbon through your filters, because it takes all the good stuff out that you're trying to put in with your peat. I've also heard that activated carbon makes your water more alkaline, although that sounds like a myth to me.
Another thing I also do, is stop using peat when the required PH is reached and re-introduce it on water changes. Which should be more frequent the lower the PH is, as your biological filtration will become non-functional at extremely high acidity. If the PH needs to be this low (PH 4 to 5) I tend to do a waterchange every 3 or 4 days.
I just have filter padding and ceramic bio medium in my canisters and the hang-on for the peat, which also performs some of the mechanical filtering.
The other way is to do it the way Steph said and make tea when you do a water change, which also works a treat.
Play around a little bit, because what works for me or someone else might not necessarily work for you, one of the beauties of fishkeeping is that it's not necessarily an exact science and you get to do some of your own experimenting ... everyone's experience is a bit different :)

[Th0mas]

All my water are coming out of those under-the-sink dual barrels filters. One is a carbon filter and the other is a particle filter.

Although I've never measure the TDS of the water from it, but managed to successfully breed some of the so call black water species in the past (iniridae).

Recently I've got lazy in changing the filter media, despite the fish are spawning (weekly) but nothing is hatching. I suspect the hardness and reading this reminds me the bloody carbon filter is well over-due for replacement.

Will have it changed tomorrow, and another round of water changes for the breeding tanks (although I've done the water change today already).

Never had a problem with filtered water becoming alkaline. Just can't stop the pH from falling below 4 (water change is my only non-chemical answer).

Thomas.

[steph]

Steph,


In using the peat tea, do you mean you make the tea up then put it in the water your about to put into the actual tank for a water change, then put all that into the tank as part of the water change process? So you don't actually put any peat in your filter system anywhere?

Thanks,
Peter.

Correct. Thats what I was doing when I was serious about breeding. Now I just talk about it ;)

Steph

[kevkoi]

Doesn't this peat tea and Indian almond leaf cocktails discolour the water??

I like my water to by crystal clear and yet maintain the perfect pH... Afterall, I didn't spend $300-$600 on Apistogramma sp "Wilhemi" and A.elizabethae to then no be able to see and enjoy viewing my fish. :?

[wickedglass]

it only colours the water a slight sepia tone, I have no problems whatsoever seeing my fish and their colours :)

although, saying that, what's your spin on keeping the PH at the correct level for acid-loving apistos?

[parkap]

Doesn't this peat tea and Indian almond leaf cocktails discolour the water??

I like my water to by crystal clear and yet maintain the perfect pH... Afterall, I didn't spend $300-$600 on Apistogramma sp "Wilhemi" and A.elizabethae to then no be able to see and enjoy viewing my fish. :?

Kev,

Are you using chemicals (liquid or powder) to maintain the low pH required or is your water naturally acidic? If nto, how do you maintain the pH required for your apistos?

p.

[steph]

Doesn't this peat tea and Indian almond leaf cocktails discolour the water??

I like my water to by crystal clear and yet maintain the perfect pH... Afterall, I didn't spend $300-$600 on Apistogramma sp "Wilhemi" and A.elizabethae to then no be able to see and enjoy viewing my fish. :?

Not really. My wood leaches more colour than the peat tea. To give you an idea I used to add approximately 1 litre of peat tea (about a fistful of loose peat and 1.5l of boiling water, and then strain thru a tea strainer) to a 30 litre water change in a 180l tank. It doesnt even stain the water change water much, not like the tetra black water extract.

Cheers

Steph

[fishgeek]

blonde peat will not discolour the water

i find that the colour is proportional to the effect, if you look at the colour of the tea that i make up it is very dark
i personally think that most sth american fish intensify in colour when peat tea is added to there tanks
especially cardinal tetra's though that may just be my experience because my water is so hard and alkaline and the fish are just appreciating a swing towards there preffered water type

my apisto colours all show well through the light colour i have in my water

as far as biological filtration not waorking at low pH , i know it is well written that that is fact, it is not my experience , i have many tanks running at ph 5.o and a mini system running at 5.5 this stayed stable for 2 mths with minimal maintainence when i last flew back to australia and left non experienced flat mate tending the fish

my understanding of bacteria is that they can survive in wider extreme's of conditions than fish so just because the bacteria identified by us as being tose in a biological filter prefer neutral parameters does not mean a population that can denitrify and live in acidic cnditions is not about

just as i see it

andrew