What's wrong?

[electric molecular]

Hey guys,

Several days ago I noticed that one of my blue diamonds has small white nodule-looking things all over his body. While he doesn't seem overtly ill, he just doesn't seem himself (he has always been the shy one in the tank however). The other discus have got a bit of whatever it is too, like one or two spots each, but all seem as healthy and happy as usual.

I don't think it is whitespot. They had whitespot when I first got them due to my own beginners ignorance, and this looks different. The spots are more raised, like pores. Plus the temp in the tank is 30 - I wouldn't think trophites would last long in that.

I don't understand what is going on as a) I haven't added any new fish or plants or anything into the tank in months and b) I have checked all the water params and nitrite, ammonia etc are 0. Ph is fine too, and I have been conducting 2-3 25% water changes each week as usual.

The only other thing i noticed and which might be relevant is that one of the cardinal tetras had been on the way out for a while (had a bulging eye) and finally disappeared last week. I just assumed the bristlenoses cleaned him up, but what if the discus ate him and it gave him something? Is it possible?

Does anyone have any ideas? Should I be worried?

Cheers,

Claire

[axelfaz]

hi mate do u have any pic for as i might have an idea on what it is but would help to see some photos first to make sure.

Cameron

[Bill T.]

Have you got a U.V. steriliser? I went through a bad time with infections of various sorts until I got a UV steriliser, then as if by magic, no more infections.
Yours sounds like a bacterial infection to me & it could well get out of hand if you don't take action.
Perhaps take a sample fish to a fish friendly vet for a diagnosis before embarking on ad hoc treatment?

[axelfaz]

Bill t your pretty much spot on the money it sounds like Aeromonas which is bacterial. I just had it run through my tanks its very hard to treat. Sorry to say losses are high. It nearly wiped me out of all fish.
Have been speaking with one of the mods and a article on this diease is on the way.
My advice is removing the fish to its own tank will not help. Aeromonas loves high temp water and can be water bourn until it finds a host. check u water permeters it loves high ammonia and nitrite levels the only treatment i colud recommond at the moment is water changes and salt.Watch your fish the white pimples will go two ways they will either pop and the flesh around them will erode quickly (in one of my fish in just over an hour it looked like a human had eatan a chunck of fish) death will be quick.or they will disapear this is the tricky part you will think that your fish has just recovered and everything is fine not the case had fish last for two week after they had disapeared and them founded them belly up sorry not to much good news here please keep as posted all the best

Cameron

[Merrilyn]

Claire, I'm working on that article now. Hope to have it finished and on the forum tonight. As Cameron said, if it is aeromonas, then I'm afraid the news is not good.

[sharn]

what about lympho? that can cause pimple like bumps that pop and they can get bacterial infections in them...

[electric molecular]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your responses. It is much appreciated.

I'm hoping it is not what you all seem to think it is. I will try to take a pic of the fish/s in question tonight to post, but I will have to wait until it gets dark enough.

He is still showing interest in food and coming out.

I just don't understand how this happens. As I said I make an effort to keep their water clean and it tested 0 for nitrite and ammonia. Plus I said I haven't added any fish lately or done anything different.

It does sound like it could be serious. I'm afraid to say that if my discus' pass away, I won't be getting anymore. It is too stressful and too expensive for me, especially when I am at work all day.

I don't even have an isolation tank or a UV (i've been thinking about getting one), but as you said, it may not make a difference now.

About the spots, he still has them. I can see where some have been and gone away. They have given him a really pasty complexion and some of the spots have turned a very dark blue compared to the rest of his colouring. I don't see any flesh erosion however.

I don't want my other discus to get sick. They aren't really showing any signs, and I think they are a lot stronger than the one in question. I have a really beautiful big blue turq. Maybe I should give them away? If anyone thinks they can treat them maybe they should...

[electric molecular]

Hi all,

I'm having heaps of trouble taking pictures of that sick one. He has put himself to bed and isn't coming out. The other ones tend to chase him around. Maybe that is what has caused his illness - stress.

I just did a water change. I just took some pictures of my other fish - as you can see, they don't look ill. 'Scuse the snails on the glass.

I will keep trying to get pictures of the poorly one. I may have to wait until tomorrow. First thing tomorrow morning I am going to seek some advice at my LFS too.

Ta,

Claire

[electric molecular]

Hi everyone,

I finally managed to get some pictures of him this morning. As you can see, he doesn't look too pretty or very happy. I don't see any redness when I look at him. I just see many small white pimple-like protrusions.
I can also see darker spots where the pimples were but have now healed or whatever.

Do these pics help at all?

Claire

[axelfaz]

hi claire, nice fish u have there, sorry to say mate but the fish with the white spots looks extactly what i had but mine were around the head and lower belly. All u can do for now is keep a good eye on him and add a little rock salt to the water.try and keep your water quailty top notch if you have any question just ask mate were all here to help

Cameron

[electric molecular]

Thanks Cameron,

I took the fish into my local aquarium today. We pondered over some good fish disease and illness' books, but could not come up with anything definitive.

The aeremonas thing he seemed to think was not it, as he thought it has something to do with fin rot. My fish has no white things on its fins or heads, only predominately on its body. And they have not turned into open/gaping wounds either. The sites appear to be healing, but then more appear on his body.

What I am going to do is give a heat treatment for the next 5 days, and just keep my fingers crossed. Maybe this will be enough to boost their immunities and kill off any pathogen. I'm not sure whether I should water change when I do this as it might throw the temp off.

I realise that if it is something nasty my others probably have it too.

On the bright side the fish is still coming out and eating like he usually does. Hopefully it just looks worse than it really is (he does look quite yucky), but then I am trying to stay positive. I will be really sad to lose any but I am trying to prepare myself for that possibility too.

I will let you know how it goes with him.

Cheers,

Claire

[BigFoot]

That does look like Ich to me or as you call White Spot. I would treat for that with Methylene Blue. Butt since this is a Plant tank that rules out this and most meds. The way I see it your only option is to raise the temp to 90 f. or more. As far as water changes are concern with there should no problem doing so if you raise the temp on the new water to match the tank.

[axelfaz]

hi big foot this is defenitly not white spot you can tell by how much the spots have rasied out of the body and the red sawness around them the last thing i would be doing at the momnent is raising the temp.
hi claire i can tell you from experence that fin rot has nothing to do with aeremonas the two ways of telling if u have it are white pimples on the body or fish hanging up around the top of your tank i would be careful with the heat treatment as it might make the illness worse IMO

Cameron

[Bill T.]

Hey. Don't give up man. Many of us have felt discouraged when disease sets in. I had a total "wipe out" from some bug that just dissolved my fish - very traumatic. After a week of looking at my empty aquarium, I stripped the whole thing down, sterilised everything with bleach, and started again.

Definitely get a U.V. steriliser. I got a realatively cheap one that is made for outdoor pondage, but works quite well inside also. It's worth having, even if you switch to other types of fish.

My experience of the lfs scene is that they know a lot about selling fish, but when it comes to diagnosing and curing fish diseases, they know "diddly squat", to coin a phrase. They love to sell expensive treatments which will as likely put your whole tank at risk & kill your healthy fish as they will cure the sick ones.

If I ever have a disease breakout again, I'm taking a sample fish to a fish friendly vet - maybe get a pathology report done, so I know for sure what I'm up against. I reckon it's worth doing this with your sick fish anyway - that way you may save those other real lovely looking guys.

Also, sometimes you get a weak fish - might have some internal disorder, crook liver or something. These ones will always get sick, no matter what. It may be worth thinking about "culling" the sick ones, on the grounds they could become a source of living pathogens which may overcome even the healthy fish.

Where abouts do you live? There might be a fsih friendly vet close to you?

Dosen't cost a lot to set up a quarantine tank, by the way. You could even pick up a cheap tank on e-bay or trading post. Just get an 80 litre tank, sterlise it with bleach, then stick in a heater and cheapo corner filter with air pump, which you can fill up with filter medium from your existing tank.

Good luck, mate!

[electric molecular]

Hi all,

Just wanted to post an update on my sick fish. After giving my tank a 5 day heat treatment then treating them twice with Multi Cure to no affect, I have decided to wait and see what happens with the fish in question.

All my other discus look quite happy and healthy at the moment (no symptoms). It is just this one fish that has lost condition (he still has many raised dots, and looks small and dark) I think that it is something systemic - he might have just been a weak/dud fish. He is still coming out and eating a bit, but I think that he might not have much more time left.

After 3 weeks with this sick fish, and none of my other fish contacting whatever it is, I would have to say that this is not a disease outbreak.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your encouragement (I don't think I will give up on the discus just yet!),

Claire

[sammigold]

Have you tried medicating with a broadspectrum anti-biotic such as tetracycline or even with something like triple-sulpha(?) The triple sulpha will destroy all bacteria good and bad so you need to use it in a separate tank and be prepared to re-cycle... I used it once with other fish not discus so I would check with LR or some others before heading in this direction but it worked when I was losing fish to an ulceration type bacteria... Just an idea... HTH

[axelfaz]

hi sammi i used the above meds to no luck i even tryed double dose of metro for 4 days this appears to be a new diease that no one knows how to treat yet :(

Cameron

[marg]

Claire,

Have you tried the salt treatment with him? I have found in the past that whenever I have had one of my guys looking off, the salt treatment seems to pick them up. Worth a try - it certainly won't do any harm.

Regards,

Marg.

[electric molecular]

Thanks for the suggestions Marg and Sammi.

Unfortunately I made the decision to put this fish down.

He just was not doing well (was still eating and everything but just looked peaky). He was always a weak fish. He may have lasted another few months but I was advised that during that time he may very well have contracted something else in his weakened state, which could have wiped out my whole tank.

Anyway, whatever he had was NOT aeromonas (phew). None of my other fish got sick after being in contact with the sick fish. It is most probable that the fish's symptoms were a result of an underlying internal disorder.

The bright side is that my other fish are getting bigger and seem very healthy and happy and beautiful. Despite my disullusionment with the sick fish, I have decided to continue to keep them!

Cheers,

Claire

[G-1000]

Claire,

That is very sad to hear - but you did the right thing.

If the fish was truly infected with a new disease - then getting the little fella autopsied or whatever it is called by a vet would have helped you work out how to treat it.

Im amazed that tetracycline didnt help the situation because that stuff is lethal to bacteria!

Maybe it was a virus?

Who knows.

Take it easy

G

[sammigold]

Sorry to hear about that claire,

glad to hear that you are not giving up and that your other babies are growing well!!!