HELP MY BROOD OF DISCUS BABIES ARE DIEING!!!!!!

[Mike]

I urgently need experrt advise, my discus babies are dieing. Even the nice healthy ones.. There 24 days old there still with there parents and this is as far as ive gotten my babies before. THe ph is 6.4 no nitrites and amonia and the babies are scratching sometimes and stuff.. oh yea and there still with there parents... please some on tell me what this is i dont wanna loose the whole brood..

[goldenpigeon]

can we have more info on the tank? filtration, uv etc?

what is the temp? how do the parents look? any obvious symptoms?

[Mike]

Um Big sponge filter, uv is light right? a regular flourecent tube. The parents look ok? No obvious symptoms the babies just look like there getting sorta skinny and weak and swim away from everyone and then they just slowly die? the temp is 80 F

[goldenpigeon]

you can have uv lighting and you can have a uv sterilizer which isc conected to a sump or canister filter (or you can now get internal ones). the uv contqins an intense uv bulb which kills off micro organisms and parasites when the water passes through the unit.

are you sure the babies are getting enough food? are you trying to feed them bbs (baby brine shrimp)? what are you feeding them? are the parents harrassing them at all?

[Mike]

wow how much are these uv things? 0_o never even heard of them ? Yes they are eating bbs. i dont think the parents are harrasing them?

[goldenpigeon]

you can get a good quality unit that does over 100Lph for under $100! they are an excellent investment.

can you get a pic of them? can i have a bit of history? what sort of shape are the parents in? are they kept in excellent conditions?

are you able to get a picture or a couple of pictures? it will help a lot! (parents and babies)

i will get LR to have a look at this topic for you

[Merrilyn]

Hello Mike, and welcome to the forum.

First thing to do is raise your temperature from 80 degrees to 90 degrees. Baby discus need to be warm, very warm.

You need to be doing water changes (about 50%) once or preferably twice per day.

Feeding should be 5 or 6 times a day with newly hatched baby brine shrimp, very finely minced beefheat or chopped frozen bloodworms. Also add to their diet a good quality flake or granular food with a high protein content (around 45% or more), suitable for baby fish.

It's possible that the babies are suffering from gill or body flukes, and may need to be treated for that if they are flicking and scratching a lot.

I really think that if you increase the temperature, you will have healthier babies.

Keep us posted, and don't hesitate if you have any more questions.

[Mike]

The Pair is in Very good condition sir, i bought them as a proven pair and they have never ever eaten their babies before ever.. Not even there eggs they take care of their babies well. I actually lost the cord for my digi cam so sorry no pics for now =(.

Thank you, this forum looks like it has alot of ppl that know there stuff, ive only been keeping discus for about 6-7 months so i think im doing pretty good. Im only 16 too and i think its a good challenge for me to do this so its fun. =D
I raised the temp and iam now doing 50% water change a day... the only other prob i got is hatching enough bbs.. I never get a good hatch rate most of the times maybe 20-25% and someitmes i get like 90% hatch rate... its wierd.. so the babies arnt getting a good feeding of bbs regulary.. another question so lets say i have a good hatch on the bbs, do i feed them through out the day or feed them all at once? Cuz dotn after a while bbs doesnt have any nutritiional value?

[piranha-discus]

hi there
you will need to feed them 5 or 6 times per day, not all at once,
if feed all at once they will eat it all and become hungry again within 2 or 3 hours. they also need to be fed lots BBS, if cant hatch enough, buy frozen BBS and that will kep up the feed for them along as u feeding them 5 to 6 times per day. and as the fish scratch them self u will need fluke treatmen, i have never loose any babies except for bigger fish eat them
,,,, ben

[nicholas76]

Mike,

the symptoms you state are not unusual as I too have seen them first hand.

I agree with lady red and believe you may have a gill flukes and or bacterial problem at best..

Do you clean the tank and sponge the walls clean?, ensure your w/c are consistent and maintained. Do you pre heat and treat the chlorine etc in your tap water?

Also dont forget ~ generally your adult fish can mask gill flukes ( if they have them ) but its the little guys that cant cope with it.

ps - I strongly suggest you research and purchase a U/V sterilser and implement a good cleaning routine to match that heavy feeding.

how are they going now??

[Mike]

hmmm no i do not clean the side of the glass with a sponge or anything. Yea latley ive been keeping up with thoes 50% water changes, i make sure the water that i put in is never colder than the water in the tank.. if anything warmer and i do remove the chlorine and chloramines. What kind of meds do you guys suggest for gill flukes? So its a UV sterilizer pump or is it a filter? As far as how they are going i lost 3 today =\ im still at right below 50 babies i think.

[nicholas76]

hmmm no i do not clean the side of the glass with a sponge or anything. Yea latley ive been keeping up with thoes 50% water changes, i make sure the water that i put in is never colder than the water in the tank.. if anything warmer and i do remove the chlorine and chloramines. What kind of meds do you guys suggest for gill flukes? So its a UV sterilizer pump or is it a filter? As far as how they are going i lost 3 today =\ im still at right below 50 babies i think.


HI Mike,

in relation to the sponge cleaning im just trying to emphasise the importants of keeping your tank clean.

check the temperature of your new water and ensure its suitable for use, dont guestimate.

meds for flukes can be dangerous - you may lose more fish to this if you dont dose correctly.

However!

It appears you still have a healthy batch going so dont go for the meds just yet!.. Good food, and good w/c are your priority at this stage.


U/v sterilsers - you can get them im many forms, attachments for cannisters Or stand alone internal pump units.

[Mike]

ok ill do that and im going to go look for a UV Sterilizer, ill keep all of you updated.

[Merrilyn]

Hello Mike, if you've managed to get 50 babies to around 4 weeks of age, then you must be doing a lot of things right. Congratulations. You have just joined the ranks of "Discus Breeders".

I've always found the baby brine shrimp eggs difficult to hatch. I think it depends on the age of the eggs if you manage to get a good hatch rate or not. Your babies are now old enough to go onto frozen baby brine shrimp and a good quality flake food crushed up very fine.

All the posts above contain some pretty good advice. This forum is great, with everyone willing to share their experiences and advice. And, by the way, you are certainly aren't the youngest member of our forum. Age has nothing to do with fish keeping skills. It's the love of the fish that counts.

Good luck with your breeding, and keep us posted on the progress of the fry.

[Mike]

hmm thanksss i guess it was my 2nd time trying to breed them the first time i didnt do water changes and they died after 6 days i think 0_o. But i gotta question about the u.v sterlizers there is this other forum that im a member of but its a local one for my area and someones offering me a 25 watt one brand new in box for 169$ and the 40watt one for 200$ or something is that good? He said he got them and never used them and thats the rpice he payed. What wattage do i need?

[Merrilyn]

25 and 40 watt UVs are pretty big, and would be good on a big tank. The 25 watt would be more than enough for your tank. I run about 15 watts on my smaller tanks.

What sor of uv is it. Is it one that goes inside the tank, and has it's own pump attached (cos the water has to glow past the uv light for the bugs to be killed) or is it one that goes outside the tank and needs a canister filter to push the water past the uv light.

Both of them work really well, but you need to know what type it is. Now the brands are going to be different here in Australia, from where you live, but if you tell me the brand, someone may know it.

As far as price, hmmm I'm not sure what the conversion rate is between Canadian and Australian Dollars. I think it's pretty even at the moment, and if so, then $169 sounds like a pretty good deal. Just to be sure, go and check out some online aquarium shops in your area for a price comparison.

[Mike]

okkkkkkk thanks alot wow ladyred your smarrrrrt LOLS. :lol:

[Mike]

Hey i got another question the parents i am just noticing now have some white dots on them? and 2-3 of the babies have a white dot on them too? It cant be ich can it? the temps 80 and where would it come from??????They are all scratching there sides on the parents like crazy what should i do ............ if its ich i have to treat these guys right?

[nicholas76]

Mike post a picture please.


itch or white spot survives in cooler temperatures. The white spot is the "egg" if you like.

it also tells me ( if this is the case ) that your tank temperature is too cold for discus.

ensure your new tank is heated at the correct temperature, this may assist in white spot prevention too.

again post a pic mate

[Mike]

I i dont got a cored for my digi cam=\.... i lost it and now i gotta make a special order on the plug.. lol

[Mike]

I just did a water change about 2 hours ago and now all my discus even the parents are breathing rather hard? im still losing the weeks ones every day or so.. still dont know whats wrong? 0_o is this normal loosing the weakly looking ones.. sometimes they all look healthy and then sometimes they just start looking sick and die off? there about a month old now should i remove them from the parents now? oh yea do i need to use chlorine remover everytime?

[ozarowana]

You will need a dechlorinator everytime if your water supply has chlorine in it (or chloramines). Call your water supply company and ask if it is added to your areas water.

I was losing fry from the same thing for a while. It began when I was away for a week and the tank wasn't being meticulously cleaned everyday. The flukes probably give the bacteria an entry point to the fish. You need to wipe all surfaces, especially the bottom as it gets pretty dirty, let it settle for a few minutes and vacuum it out.

The fry stopped dying after I added a team of baby bristlenose to keep the tank sides clean, changed 80% a day (with water of the same parameters) and added an extra sponge filter.

[Mike]

when shoould i remove the parents though?

[Cuong]

You can remove the parents when they fry are eating (bbs, beefheart and pellets) well and are starting to annoy the parents.

[Mike]

hey lets say in a batch of 50 how many will usually live till 2" isit normal for all the weaker ones to die off eveyrother day? LOL... i went for 2 days with out a death..

[Merrilyn]

Hi Mike, yes the weaker fry, and the deformed ones will normally die off, that's why they have so many to begin with. But it's not normal for them to keep dying. There's got to be something else going on. Check all your water parameters again and see if there is anything strange going on with your water.

In a brood of 50 I would expect to lose maybe 10 or so, no more, so if you've lost more than that, then we need to investigate further.

[Mike]

my amonia and nitrite are fine??? temp is fine? dont know what else is wrong?.... they just keep dieing off one by one..... i lost another one today and i see another weak one that will prob die off bie tonight.

[Merrilyn]

Mike, I think we need to go back to basics here.

At this age the fry should be on their own. They should be getting fed 5 or 6 times a day with either brine shrimp, beef heart, blood worms or finely crushed flake food. If they don't get enough food for growth, they won't survive.

Now, heavy feedings like that mean the tank gets pretty dirty, so you need to be cleaning down the sides and bottom of the tank, then doing a waterchange every day.

Next thing is temperature. You need to be running the tank no lower than 86 degrees. Discus need to have very warm water. Anything lower than 86 will cause problems.

If the fish are flicking and scratching, then you need to decide if it is from gill and body flukes, or if it is from white spot (ick).

If you can see any tiny white spots over the fins and body of the fish, then we can assume it's caused by ick and you will need to get a white spot cure, and follow the directions carefully.

If there are no visible white spots, and some seem to only be using one gill at a time, then that's a pretty sure sign of gill flukes. Once again, you need to get a cure from your local aquarium shop, and use exactly as directed.

Please keep us posted Mike, I know it's hard watching your fry die one by one. :(

[Mike]

well i just removed the parents

scrubbed the bottom and sides down

did a 50% w/c

put another heater in there

The temp was about 80f before and i threw in another heater to raise the temp. I try to feed as much as i can in a day, but its hard cuz i got school and all that =|. No ich as far as i can see. But there breathing is heavy sorta? When there starting to die, like i can tell at the begining of the day who i am gonna loose. They look darker, there breathing is sorta heavy, there fins are clentched and they look sickly.. now i dont know what this is.. =| i really dont wanna see my whole batch go.

I am gonna try to save up for a UV sterilizer but i just dont have the money for it right now =|.

[Mike]

ok.... i bought prazi pro suppost to be safe.. it has a discus on the front and it says extremly safe highly effective.. now i add 1 teasoppn for every 20g's rigght but it says u only need one treatment and a second one after 3-5 days if necessary but.. i do 50% w/c daily on this tank how does this work.....?

[Merrilyn]

That's correct Mike. On the day of treatment, do your waterchange, then add the medication. Next day, do your normal water change, then on the third day, repeat the treatment. That's so that any flukes that may not have been killed in the first treatment will be attacked.

It's a good idea to clean out your filter after each treatment, so that you remove any dead flukes or eggs that the filter may have trapped.

[Mike]

but wont i get rid of all the good bacteria in my tank if i clean the sponge filter?

[Daetarek]

from what i am understanding here ... we don't want any bacteria good or bad

[Mike]

0_o? you need good bacteria in your filter..?

[Merrilyn]

Mike, you still need the good bacteria in your filter, the one that breaks down ammonia and nitrite and converts it to nitrate.

This is housed in your sponge filter, and to a small extent on the walls and bottom of your tank. You can safely clean the gunk out of your filter without disturbing the beneficial bacteria, by squeezing the filter in old tank water. Chlorine from new water will kill the bacteria.

We need your filter clean, but still with it's colony of useful bacteria.

How are your fish looking today?

[Mike]

hmm lost 2 more... but in general they look a bit better? there are still some sick ones though

[Mike]

ok everything was going great for about a week then stuff started going the same again lost some more to the same side affects? fins tightening up and they turn dark and they just starting to die again? They are about a month and 2 weeks old and are currently feeding on beefheart and bloodworms. I dosed my tank with prazi pro and then stuff started looking better then its starting to come back?

[Merrilyn]

Sorry to hear that Mike. As long as you are doing regular water changes, and keeping them warm, then that's all you can do.

The Prazipro would have treated for gill flukes and tape worm, but does it contain levamisole as well. That treats round worms. I'm not familiar with Prazipro, as we don't have it here in Australia, so you'll need to read the ingredients. If there is no levamisole in the bottle, then try to get some from your local aquarium shop or vet, and treat them for roundworms (nematodes and trematodes).

If you mention that you want something to treat roundworm and threadworm in fish, your vet or the aquarium shop will be able to give you the right product.

[Mike]

hmm it says oxybispropanal ( as an inhert solubilizing agent) and 5%praziquantel by weight. roundworms? how do i know if they have that 0_o?

[Mike]

????????

[Merrilyn]

Okay, that stuff you used is for tapeworm. It doesn't treat roundworm or threadworm.

How do you know if your fish have worms, well it's a matter of an educated guess really. If a fish is not thriving, and starts to go off it's food and get skinny, then there is something going on inside the fish.

Now, we don't know for sure, but there are some things that we can do to eliminate the obvious things. Tapeworm, flukes and roundworm are the main things that we can safely treat for.

I can't say for sure that your fish do have roundworms, but if they were mine, and they were still dying, then I'd treat them for roundworm.

Good luck Mike.