Discus Not Eating SOS!!!

[discus_maniac]

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum.
I have some serious problems regarding one of my discus.
I got a tank 50" X 20" X 18 ".
2X Large Angels
1X Discus ( Blue Diamond )
3X Cat Fish
12X Neon
2X Gupies
and newly introduce 5X Discus 2 weeks ago...BUT now my Blue Diamond Discus not eating at all and always hide. I use a mixture of blood worm, flake,a nd Discus food.

Can someone help me with my sick discus as i am very worries he/she will die if he/she keep like this. :(

[Ben]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

First of all can you let us know what the specs are in your tank like PH, GH, Temp, how often you water change, did you quarantine the fish before putting in the main tank etc.

How long after adding the new discus did the old discus go into hiding?

By answering these questions we should be able to help you fix the problem.

Ben

[discus_maniac]

I don't know what type of Discus i got, i will find that out ASAP.
I noticed one thing with the hidding discus, when i turn on the tank light it will hide under the drift log, and once i turn off the tank light it will go to the corner. I will definely post all the relevent info ASAP.
Ben can you please explaing to me what is PH, GH.
As for water quality, i dont't think there is any problems, beacause i change it quite often, a week, and sometime i just change it in 2-3 days.

BTW if my discus is not eating how long you think he/she will last???
I don't want to wait to long and i really love my fish :(

Cheers :)

[discus_maniac]

sorry for the double post!

[Ben]

Hi,

PH is the expression of either the acidity or alkalinity of water. 7 are neutral, 6.8 are slightly acid, and 7.4 are slightly alkaline.

GH is the general hardness of the water which means the amount of dissolved salts and calcium.

Is there anything that is visually wrong with the discus? Like fraying of the fins or lesions on its body or is it just dark?

It could be that it needs to get used to the new social structure since the addition of new inmates!

In the meantime try and do water changes every second day around %40 is good with clean water with the same temp as the tank.

As far as not eating, they can not eat for more than a month so i would say we have some time to find out the problem before the little guy perishes.

Ben

[discus_maniac]

Sorry i don't know what species i got...i will take some pics of my Discus tomorrow and all the fish in the tank tomorrow.
By the way should i be considering De-worm, i don't know how it work, will it kill any fish in my tank?? how often you need to do it???

Cheers :)

[Ben]

Sorry i did not mean species but specifics.
i.e., what the water composes of, PH GH etc

Let’s not worm the fish just yet as we want them to all be in excellent health before doing so.


A picture would be great.

Ben

[discus_maniac]

Sorry i did not mean species but specifics.
i.e., what the water composes of, PH GH etc

Let’s not worm the fish just yet as we want them to all be in excellent health before doing so.


A picture would be great.

Ben

Hi Ben,
Here are results:
PH = 6.0
High Range PH = 7.4
Ammonia = 0
Nitrate = 0
Nitrite = 0
Temp = 26.5

[Merrilyn]

Hi discus_maniac and welcome to the forum.

Some of your reading worry me. First, at 26.5 your temperature is a bit too low for discus. Increase that to around 29 to 30. I'm concerned that you have no nitrate reading. If your bio filter is working properly, you should have some nitrate showing in your test, at least 5 to 15. Nitrate is the end product of bio filtration, where the fish waste turns from ammonia, to nitrite and last into nitrate, which is fairly harmless to fish. Any reading of ammonia or nitrite is too much, and you should do an immediate water change.

Your pH readings concern me. It can't be both pH 6 and 7.4. It must be one or the other, or even something in between, so can you repeat that test and post the reading. Some kits have two bottles of pH testing solution. One is for soft water tanks, like discus tanks, and the other is for high range pH tanks with very hard water, like African cichlid tanks, where the pH can go up to 8 or even higher.

What we're looking for in your tank, is a reading of somewhere around 7, so use the low range pH test tube, and compare your colour with the chart. It should give you a reading there.

I'd also like to know how much water, and how often you do water changes. This is one of the very important things with discus. They just love clean water.

How long have you had that tank set up for, and did you actually quarantine the new discus before you put them into the tank, or did you just bring them home from the aquarium shop and put them in the tank.

It's possible they may be carrying some disease they they are immune to, but your blue diamond is not.

Anyway, lets find out the answers to some of those questions first, and then I'll try to help you with what's going on with your blue diamond.

[discus_maniac]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2104.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2094.jpg

And here is the Blue Discus (not eating and always hide :( )

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2115.jpg

[Merrilyn]

Well your tank certainly looks lovely, with the bare bottom and the plants growing on driftwood. The angels and the new fish look very healthy.

Sorry, but it's a bit difficult to tell from that pic just what is going on with the blue diamond. Any chance of a clearer picture.

I see you have an ammo ball in your tank, and that's a good start. Your neons may not appreciate the higher water temperatures. Cardinals are a better tankmate for discus. They love the warmer water and are often found swimming with discus in the wild.

I must say that angels are not the ideal tankmate for discus. They are a bit too rough and a bit too quick to get to the food. Shy discus have no chance against them at feeding time. Unfortunately they can also pass on disease to your discus. Angels and discus are not found together in the wild (except altum angels) so that would suggest they are not ideal tankmates.

Please do the other tests on your tank, and let me know the results.

[discus_maniac]

Hi discus_maniac and welcome to the forum.

Some of your reading worry me. First, at 26.5 your temperature is a bit too low for discus. Increase that to around 29 to 30. I'm concerned that you have no nitrate reading. If your bio filter is working properly, you should have some nitrate showing in your test, at least 5 to 15. Nitrate is the end product of bio filtration, where the fish waste turns from ammonia, to nitrite and last into nitrate, which is fairly harmless to fish. Any reading of ammonia or nitrite is too much, and you should do an immediate water change.

Your pH readings concern me. It can't be both pH 6 and 7.4. It must be one or the other, or even something in between, so can you repeat that test and post the reading. Some kits have two bottles of pH testing solution. One is for soft water tanks, like discus tanks, and the other is for high range pH tanks with very hard water, like African cichlid tanks, where the pH can go up to 8 or even higher.

What we're looking for in your tank, is a reading of somewhere around 7, so use the low range pH test tube, and compare your colour with the chart. It should give you a reading there.

I'd also like to know how much water, and how often you do water changes. This is one of the very important things with discus. They just love clean water.

How long have you had that tank set up for, and did you actually quarantine the new discus before you put them into the tank, or did you just bring them home from the aquarium shop and put them in the tank.

It's possible they may be carrying some disease they they are immune to, but your blue diamond is not.

Anyway, lets find out the answers to some of those questions first, and then I'll try to help you with what's going on with your blue diamond.

Ok i have turn up the temp to around 29-30, i change water for the tank usually once a week and sometimes change it every 2-3 days.
The tank had been set up for nearly approx 6 months, i didn't quarantine the new discus before you put them into the tank :(.
Here are the lastest result for PH Test...


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2121.jpg

And Nitrate Test...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2122.jpg

Sorry i don't know how to make the pic smaller! i am using the lowest resolution to take the following test already.
Sorry forget to include some important point....when i turn on the light for the fish tank and blue discus would go and hide under the driftwood, its the same when i start feeding the rest of the fish in the tank, slowly it would go and hide inside the driftwood.

[Merrilyn]

Okay, that's a big help. At 5ppm your nitrate is fine. Your pH is a bit too low at under 6, so I'd suggest doing a big water change as soon as possible, and then do about a 25% waterchange every second day for the next couple of weeks.

I think you may find that the water changes alone will effect a cure for the blue diamond. If not, let me know.

Sorry, I know it's a big task doling water changes, but the fact that your pH has dropped below 6 indicates that you need to increase your water changes. Also at below 6 your bio filter is not very effective. Bacteria do not thrive in an acid environment.

It's normal for your fish to dart under the driftwood when the lights are first turned on. They are just startled at the sudden light. I find that discus take around half an hour to properly wake up in the mornings.

As far as quarantine. Hmmmm let's hope you have gotten away with it this time, but next time, place any new fish in quarantine for at least 4 weeks. You don't want to bring something nasty into your beautiful tank.

[discus_maniac]

Thanks so much for helping ladyred, when you said "big water change" how many %???
I got a Fluval 304
Top Filter = BioMax
Middle Filter = BioMax and Carbon
Bottom Filter = Carbon

So is everything ok the way i set it up???

[Merrilyn]

At least 50% for the first water change (we don't want to alter the pH too quickly) then after that about 25% or so. No hard and fast rules, but something around that would be good.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[discus_maniac]

I just did a 50% water change, currently temp in the tank is around 30.4 degree. I will continues do 25% water change every 2 days interval.

My Blue Discus is still not eating and he/she is really shy now.
Also the only time i see he/she come out of the hidding is when there is no one around the tank.

Apart from that at night we turn on the light from out house, now do i need to cover the tank with a blanket for the fish to rest????

Anyway i got more Q's regarding tropical fish....for a new introduce fish or sick fish...do i need a seperate tanks?? if so, same water as the current tank??, filters? heater? size???? ect........

I would aslo like to ask how can you tell the Discus gender???

[Merrilyn]

I'm still a bit concerned over that blue discus. Keep an eye on him. If he doesn't improve with the extra w/c we may need to think of a course of medication for him. Can you see if his droppings are normal colour or white.

Lights - I don't keep any lights on in the fish room unless some of the pairs have fry or eggs. I guess they don't need total darnkess to rest, but they seem quite happy if there is no light in the room.

Quarantine/hospital tank - every discus keeper should have a spare tank they can use. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Even a big clear plastic tub will do (like a storage tub you get from the supermarket). It does need a heater and an airstone, and maybe a filter which you have running in a mature tank, that you can take out and put in the hospital tank when necessary.

Any fish being treated should be in a tank separate from the others. I keep a big plastic plant in mine, so the fish feel a bit more secure, and that's all.

All new fish, discus, neons, or catfish should go into the quarantine tank for 4 weeks so you can see if they are carrying any diseases.

Sexing discus - this is impossible with juvenile fish, and still very difficult with adults. Some will tell you that you can tell by the shape of the fins, i.e. the male has longer and more pointed dorsal and anal fins, but this is not necessarily always the case. I still think the best way is to have several young fish grow up together, and let them choose their own mate.

[discus_maniac]

I'm still a bit concerned over that blue discus. Keep an eye on him. If he doesn't improve with the extra w/c we may need to think of a course of medication for him. Can you see if his droppings are normal colour or white.

Lights - I don't keep any lights on in the fish room unless some of the pairs have fry or eggs. I guess they don't need total darnkess to rest, but they seem quite happy if there is no light in the room.

Quarantine/hospital tank - every discus keeper should have a spare tank they can use. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Even a big clear plastic tub will do (like a storage tub you get from the supermarket). It does need a heater and an airstone, and maybe a filter which you have running in a mature tank, that you can take out and put in the hospital tank when necessary.

Any fish being treated should be in a tank separate from the others. I keep a big plastic plant in mine, so the fish feel a bit more secure, and that's all.

All new fish, discus, neons, or catfish should go into the quarantine tank for 4 weeks so you can see if they are carrying any diseases.

Sexing discus - this is impossible with juvenile fish, and still very difficult with adults. Some will tell you that you can tell by the shape of the fins, i.e. the male has longer and more pointed dorsal and anal fins, but this is not necessarily always the case. I still think the best way is to have several young fish grow up together, and let them choose their own mate.

Hi ladyred...after water change ( 50%) one of my clown lorch is fading colour....and reasons for this???

Also regarding to Quarantine/hospital tank let say i bring in a new fish and in order for them to have disease free i quarantine it, now without heater it will kill the fish wouldn't it???, because its too cold.
Without filter for 4 weeks it will contaminate the water too wouldn't it???

Sorry for asking so much Q's....hope you don't mind!

[Merrilyn]

It does need a heater and an airstone, and maybe a filter which you have running in a mature tank, that you can take out and put in the hospital tank when necessary.

Oh yes, I agree. Your hospital tank does need a heater and a filter. Please read again the above quote, and you'll see what I mean.

The filter is usually a simple sponge filter which you have running as a spare in another mature tank. When you need to use your hospital tank, you put the spare filter in there, and you have an instantly cycled tank.

Another thing to remember is that sometimes the medications required will wipe out your bio filter, so using them in the main tank is not a good idea. The smaller hospital tank will need at least daily water changes, so a bio filter is not absolutely essential. You CAN run it with just an airstone, and daily large water changes to keep the ammonia level down.

Don't worry about asking lots of questions. That's how we all learned in the beginning. :P

[discus_maniac]

Hi ladyred,

I just noticed with my Blue Discus poo poo is white!
Can you please advise me on what i should do next...since you are in Melbourne can you also advice me what sort of medication needed to treated my Blue Discus and where to get it????
I got a small tank it can be use as a hospital tank...can you advice me on what to do.
Do i need to use the mature water for my hospital tank???

[Merrilyn]

Okay well then that's a sign of hex, along with the other symptoms the little guy is showing, I think we can be pretty certain of the diagnosis. Here are some instructions from a previous post I wrote on the treatment of Hex. You will need to get Metro (also known as Flagyl from your vet. I know of 2 in the eastern suburbs who will sell it to you for fish problems, and don't actually need to see the fish. I'll PM you the details.

Your fish is showing early stages of the disease. Treatment is quite effective at this stage.

It can be transmitted to your other fish, possibly thru contaminated droppings, although little scientific work has been done in this area. It is believed that the pathogen responsible for Hole in the Head (also known by a variety of other names such as Hex, head and lateral line erosion and wasting disease) is Spironucleus Vortens.

An infected fish may show one or several of the following symptoms:-

Skin lesions around the head area.
Turning dark.
Refusing to eat.
White jelly like droppings.
Muscle wasting and pinched appearance above the eyes.

The best drug to use is Metronidazole (Flagyl) which you will need to get from your local vet. Ring first to see if he will prescribe it after seeing a photo of the fish, or if he insists on seeing the fish himself.

1. Do a 30% water change.
2. Set the temperature to 30 degrees, no higher.
3. Add 250 mg Metro per 40 Litres of water. Crush tablets to fine powder and mix with water to form a paste before adding to the tank.
4. After 12 hours, do another 30% water change and repeat the dose. This should be done for a total of 3 days.
5. During treatment the tank lights should be left off. Metro is affected by light.
6. A variety of good quality, high protein food with added vitamins and minerals should be fed several times daily. Include prepared dry food, beef heart, brine shrimp, green vegetable matter and blood worms in the diet. Remove any uneaten food and keep the water very clean.

This treatment is effective for early cases of Hex. If however, your fish has been showing symptoms for a long time, or is refusing food altogether, then the treatment needs to be more aggressive.

In that case, the dose rate would be 400mg per 40 litres of tank water, with a 30% water change between treatment. Repeat every 8 hours for a maximum of 10 days if necessary. Usually 5 to 7 days will be sufficient for symptoms to disappear.

Further reading can be found in the excellent article from Discus Page Holland

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spironucleus.shtml#1.%20%20Introduction%20–%20Comm on%20Symptoms

Hope that helps. Keep us posted on your progress.
_________________

[discus_maniac]

Okay well then that's a sign of hex, along with the other symptoms the little guy is showing, I think we can be pretty certain of the diagnosis. Here are some instructions from a previous post I wrote on the treatment of Hex. You will need to get Metro (also known as Flagyl from your vet. I know of 2 in the eastern suburbs who will sell it to you for fish problems, and don't actually need to see the fish. I'll PM you the details.

Your fish is showing early stages of the disease. Treatment is quite effective at this stage.

It can be transmitted to your other fish, possibly thru contaminated droppings, although little scientific work has been done in this area. It is believed that the pathogen responsible for Hole in the Head (also known by a variety of other names such as Hex, head and lateral line erosion and wasting disease) is Spironucleus Vortens.

An infected fish may show one or several of the following symptoms:-

Skin lesions around the head area.
Turning dark.
Refusing to eat.
White jelly like droppings.
Muscle wasting and pinched appearance above the eyes.

The best drug to use is Metronidazole (Flagyl) which you will need to get from your local vet. Ring first to see if he will prescribe it after seeing a photo of the fish, or if he insists on seeing the fish himself.

1. Do a 30% water change.
2. Set the temperature to 30 degrees, no higher.
3. Add 250 mg Metro per 40 Litres of water. Crush tablets to fine powder and mix with water to form a paste before adding to the tank.
4. After 12 hours, do another 30% water change and repeat the dose. This should be done for a total of 3 days.
5. During treatment the tank lights should be left off. Metro is affected by light.
6. A variety of good quality, high protein food with added vitamins and minerals should be fed several times daily. Include prepared dry food, beef heart, brine shrimp, green vegetable matter and blood worms in the diet. Remove any uneaten food and keep the water very clean.

This treatment is effective for early cases of Hex. If however, your fish has been showing symptoms for a long time, or is refusing food altogether, then the treatment needs to be more aggressive.

In that case, the dose rate would be 400mg per 40 litres of tank water, with a 30% water change between treatment. Repeat every 8 hours for a maximum of 10 days if necessary. Usually 5 to 7 days will be sufficient for symptoms to disappear.

Further reading can be found in the excellent article from Discus Page Holland

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spironucleus.shtml#1.%20%20Introduction%20–%20Comm on%20Symptoms

Hope that helps. Keep us posted on your progress.
_________________

Ok so i need to set up a small tank for hospital fish with heater and air stone, would you recommend adding my current water to my hospital tank???
How much does the medicine cost???

[Merrilyn]

PM sent.

[discus_maniac]

Ok just started treatment for my blue discus last night.
The blue discus is in a 10 litres tank with heater set at around 29-30 degree.
This morning did a 30% water change with medication, BUT the discus still doesn't want to eat.

How long it usually take for the medication to take effect???



http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/94_v6_camry/100_2169.jpg

[Merrilyn]

It can take a week or so for the appetite to return. Just keep offering his favourite food or maybe some live brine shrimp.

Asd soon as he's feeling better, he will begin to eat and make up for lost time.

[Merrilyn]

It can take a week or so for the appetite to return. Just keep offering his favourite food or maybe some live brine shrimp.

As soon as he's feeling better, he will begin to eat and make up for lost time.

[discus_maniac]

When taking picture for my Discus with "Flash On", will it do any harm to my Discus???


Cheers :)