Guess who has a eggs :-)

[Jeroen]

New round....new chance,

The Blue checkerboard couple have eggs again, this time I tried this couple to protect the eggs from eating by caging them (It was to many eggs to let them be eating)
I have placed air close to the cone to simulate the caring of the parents.
At this moment the eggs are 24 hours.....please: atlease once :-)

Will keep you updated, unfortully no pics, the eggs are on the backside of the cone, so I can not photograph them....so I guess you have to wait till they swim free :-) (if they make it that far)

Maybe I am lucky, I was changing the water non stop (very slowly) I managed to bring the MicroSiemens (Us) back to 145 en Ph is 6.6

Jeroen

[Martin Boele]

Hello Jeroen.


Great to hear that your checkerboard couple have eggs.
I keep my fingers gross.
Keep us inform.

Martin B

[the_oracle]

Jeroen,
Doing good...........
Hope everything's well this time round.............


Sanie.

[Merrilyn]

Wonderful news Jeroen. I'm very happy for you. :wave2

Now we just have to wait :wink:

[Mulisha]

Congrats hope it all turns out well 8-)

*Fingers Crossed* :wink:

[nicholas76]

looking fwd to those pics,, good luck!

[Jeroen]

Crap.....think is gouing to be nothing again.
I am not sure what I have done wrong...

aprox 10% of the eggs have turn white within 24 hours
85% of the eggs has growen a blanket of fungus on it :(

1. after 24 hours I was with my hand in the aquarium to take away the poe... (i did was myu hands...refilled the water with osmoses water

2. not enough water circulation ? maybe few hours after putting the eggs and caging them I should increase the water circulation or aim the circulation more to the cone ?

3. the air bubbles were to close or maybe not close enough to the cone

4. I should use a UV to protect the eggs from groing fungus on them

Any tips ???

all the days before setting eggs I did good water chages, two days before the eggs I start to increase the ammount of osmose water and lowered the PH

Can't figure out why there is so much fungus on the eggs :(

Jeroen
Tanx martin....

[nicholas76]

Jeroen

its a bit of a guessing game without seeing them but if I was to take a plunge I'd say that the male simply isnt hitting his mark when it comes to fertilising the eggs.

fungas after a few days is normal in this instance I believe.

Now if fungas is out of control then we have ways of treating that. PM Ben ( advisor ) and he will give you further instructions.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Jeroen. Sorry to hear that about your eggs. Don't be concerned. It often takes several times before the male correctly fertilizes the eggs. Give him a few more chances. You may also find that he is distracted by something while the female is laying, and doesn't do his run till too late.

Some males are so busy protecting their territory, that they forget to do the most important job. All these things are sorted out with time and experience.

The other thing you may like to try is to drop the pH of your water to around 6. Bacteria have a hard time living in more acid water, and the eggs are less likely to fungus. Very soft water, with a DGH of around 3 will increase the number of eggs being fertilized. Hard water makes the eggs close over before the male has a chance to fertilize them.

The other thing that you can do, is to add methylene blue to the water once the eggs have been fertilized. It must be done on the day the eggs are laid, because it slows down the production of slime coating on the parents. If you add it to the water 2 or 3 days after the eggs are laid, the parents won't be able to produce enough slime to feed the fry. I never use it myself, but I do know that it will prevent the eggs from becoming fungused.

I prefer to allow the parents access to the eggs all the time. They learn to mouth the eggs and keep them clean of fungus. They will also pick out any unfertilized eggs so that fungus won't spread to the fertile eggs.

Give your pairs plenty of time to get things right. Remember that if discus breeding was easy, then everyone would be doing it. Discus will always command a high price because they are not an easy fish to breed.

[Ben]

Excellent information Merrilyn.

Another thing though it will help with the addition of an ultra violet sterilizer. This will keep bacteria to a minimum and will stop fungus spores from developing and spreading which affect the eggs.

Keep us posted Jeroen,

Ben

[Jeroen]

Hello everybody,

Good news (no ! no baby's yet)

it seems that only 2streets away from here (few hundred meters) is a person living, breeding discus with succes just on plain tapwater....it seems that the tapwater is high quality, almost no chemicals and every parameter is good.
check his http://www.terrysdiscus.nl/index_bestanden/index.htm
I have meet up with this guy....and he told me not to much to mess with the water, is not needed where we live.
Now my problem....In the breeding tanks I have a filtration/circulation of aprox 300 liters per hour (twice as much as is in the tank) + a BIG airstone....this makes also some circulation, the person I have been talking to thinks it has to do with the circulation

Female lay eggs.
Male virtulize them
circulation blows the sperm away....

So...I have changed all this

Airstone is moved to filter part, so still extra air, but no circulation in the tank from that.
output from waterpump is spread by a pipe and many holes....it is more like dripping allover the surface now (like a shouer but then slowly dripping) this provide also extra air...

Hopefully this will do the trick

BEN: the UV has really crossed my mind, exactly as you said, but: as this person is succesful only two streets away from here, I will first try without UV

Merrilyn, thanks a lot for your feedback.

Will keep you all informed.

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Holy smoke....2 couples in 1 hour has laid eggs :-)
I don't think it will turn out to come something from there....but it looks cool

1 couple is in the community tank and the cone they have choosen to lay eggs is very close under the output from the waterpump...(I was busy to change that)
so my guess is that the eggs are not virtulizes

The other couple (the checkerboad I have written before about)
That tank is fixed (less water circulation) but when I had a peek an hour ago it seems the couple were not realle taking care of the eggs :-(

So my question is:
after a couple has laid eggs do they take a break so the sperm can do the work or is that because they are not so good (young) parents ?

I will keep you updated....

Jeroen

[Merrilyn]

Congratulations Jeroen. Seems you are going to have discus fry after all :D

It's normal for them to take a bit of a break from looking after the eggs, especially at feeeding time or if they are disturbed. They soon should go back to staring at their eggs, and taking turns in fanning them. As I said, this is all a learning process for young parents. Sometimes they get it right first time, and sometimes they don't.

Each time they lay eggs, they learn more and more, until finally they have success.

Good luck with the most recent batch of eggs, and how wonderful to have a successful discus breeder so close. I'm sure you learn a lot from him.

[Jeroen]

owwwww bugger....

This moring both the nest were gone (eaten)
I am gonna sit down and cry out loud hehehe

Will let you know how things develop.

[Merrilyn]

Hey Jeroen, each time they fail, they're one step closer to success. :wink:

[Jeroen]

hahaha.....you know how to get a sad person a smile on his face, thanks for the positive spirit ;-)

Allthough...I wonder myself this:
I've noticed that the eggs by each couple each time are eaten after aprox 30 hours...could that mean something

mostly after 26 hrs I can see very tiny christal looking things (beginning of fungus)
Uv will come, when the money and wife allow me :-)

Jeroen

[discusjim]

Hey jeroen,

Dat is nog is leuk om een nederlander te zien op een australisch forum.
Hoe oud is het kweekkoppel? Misschien is het mannetje nog nie oud genoeg. Ik heb in Nederland ook een tijdje gekweekt. In de kweekbak wil je niet te veel stroming hebben, zoals je al zei dan waait de sperma weg. En in het begin heb je meestal problemen met het koppel, je moet het soms gewoon tijd geven. Ik heb nu een koppel blue daimonds en het mannetje wil nie over de eieren gaan, het geeft je geen goeie zin. Veel succes. Jim

[Dave76]

Hi Jeroen

Don't get too discouraged - one of my young pairs took 27 attempts before they finally got it right....

Dave

[Jeroen]

Hi dave....I am not discouraged (yet) but....I just noticed that it is each time after aprox 30 hours.
The weird thing is: twice I have cage the eggs....and they all got fungus after 30+ hours.
So I guess a UV is really needed here.
Anyway....I keep on trying ;-)

Now another thing....todat I was doing a water change and I had a very small cut in my vinger...when I went into the water I felled a tiny something...I think it is a very little electricity...I have no idea where it comes from, and it don't seem to bother the discus, but could it harm the eggs and maybe that is a reason why it goes wrong ?

Hope to find some answers about this...offcourse I will go find the problem and isolate it (maybe a heater not waterproof anymore or so)


Hi Jim, zeker leuk....waar zit jij ? niet in nederland zo te zien.
Ik blijf volhouden, maar het water is waar ik woon volgens alle discusfanaten perfect....er moet dus iets anders mis zijn....alle koppels (3 stuks) eten de eitjes na 30 uur op, is wel een beetje erg toevallig zou ik zeggen

Groet
Jeroen

[Ben]

Now another thing....todat I was doing a water change and I had a very small cut in my vinger...when I went into the water I felled a tiny something...I think it is a very little electricity...I have no idea where it comes from, and it don't seem to bother the discus, but could it harm the eggs and maybe that is a reason why it goes wrong ?

I have experienced the same thing; there could be a few causes to this.

As the cut is an open wound the sensation could be because of acid water, bacteria in the water, dissolved salts....

Keep us posted on the breeding progress!

Cheers
Ben

[Jeroen]

Hi Ben,

the wound was a very tiny cut....I forgot to mention that a few weeks ago I thought allready that i did feel something when i touched the frame with myh face when I picked something from the floor...I really think it is a very low voltage of electricity, the only problem is, i don't know comming from where or how to test this :(

BUT: if there is really a electricity on the frame/in the water....could this be the problem on the eggs ?

Jeroen

[Dave76]

I don't know if it is the cause of the problem with the eggs - but it sounds like you may have something leaking electricity in there - not a good thing.

The fish don't notice as they aren't 'earthed' as such, where you are.

You may be able to measure the charge with a voltmeter. You can try plugging / unplugging things one at a time to try and find the source - and then replace it.

Alternatively an electirican will be able to solve the problem for you.

HTH

Dave

[Ben]

I am not sure what affect leaking electricity current has on eggs but as it is not earthed i would have to say nil.

Good advice by Dave, i would do it sooner rather than later as one of the pieces of equipment maybe be faulty.



Ben

[Jeroen]

UV unit is not in yet, electricity problem not found yet....but I have new eggs...:-) would be fun if it work out this time without the uv and findig the electricity leak....

Will keep u updated how it turns out

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

The first 24 hours are passed....so far still all eggs are there, well counted there are 4 white ones....
Still no UV unit installed, wonder if these batch is gonna survive
The female is acting a little different, she looks nervouse, she is swimming from left to right infront of the window...maybe nervouse to become a mom :-) I would be, there is many eggs :-)

Have feed them a little bloodworms today (first rinsed with cold water) and changed 15% water

Will keep u updated

Jeroen

[Ben]

Jeroen, Sounds like this could be the one!

With my personal expreience i dont feed the couple when they have eggs, not all but most of the time they will not eat much and not feeding will prevent any extra waste which could inturn speed up the fungus which attack's the eggs.

keep us posted mate!
Cheers
Ben

[Jeroen]

Hi Ben....

I was doubting about feeding them....every story I hear is diffrent....some people do, some don't
Maybe not a smart move to feed them....time will tell....but now 26 hours, and the eggs are stil there and looking good.
Overhere it's time to get some sleep....by the time I wake up the magic 30 hours are passed :-) I hope it will be some good news

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Wow....42 hours are passed and the eggs are still there.
There are quit some white ones by now.....but a quick count (photo) learned me there were still at this moment aprox 130 left
The couple seem to take care of the eggs, allthough they don't remove the white eggs

Included a picture...eggs at this moment (42 hours)
Tell me what you think....will all eggs by tommorow be white (dead) or will finally the first batch of fry survive ?

If I look at the picture I found some eggs lighter colored then others, what does make me expect some more white eggs...

Looking forwards to your expertise...

Jeroen

[Ben]

Jeroen,

it looks like you have some fertile eggs there!
There are a couple more that may go fungus but not many.

Keep us posted when they hatch mate!

cheers
Ben

ps, when they hatch you will need to start thinking about hatching brine shrimp (artemia)

[Merrilyn]

You should get a good hatch from them Jeroen.

[Jeroen]

Oww......unfortunally....a little after I posted the feamle took about 40% of the eggs away
Then 4 hours later, I could see the the black dot's in the egg so clear (they were close to come out) I went to bed, this moring the rest was gone....I guess it is gonna take some more practice...

BUT: the good news is that the couple have eggs sinds last night....this couple is in a community tank with 1 other couple
This is the fourth time in this tank....next round I will set them appart I think...

Jeroen

[Merrilyn]

Well that was bad luck Jeroen, but at least you know you have a fertile male, and that they are capable of looking after their eggs to hatching stage.

It's all good practice for them (although frustrating for you) and you should definately have fry in the next few weeks.

[Jeroen]

Moving to the next level

Another couple has laid eggs....it is one of the couples that I bought as couple and as the person who sold them told me (and convinced me by pictures) they had fry before.
Finally they showed some action, not I have 3 active couples and one not very active (only once the had eggs)

anyway, I am comparing the setup from the person the blocks away from me (having succes) and me not having succes, I know it also has to do with the parents, but I noticed he is working with a large biological filter filled with natural filter material and sintered glass
I am working with a small biological (internal) filter and filter spons (like they use for koi (only smaller porien/holes)

So I was thinking, that might be the difference, so I bought a biological filter....see if that makes a difference...
UV unit would be in by tommorow...

I will make a temp setup to see if it works better, if it does, then I have to replace my tanks I have now (they are not build for such a setup)

Will keep you informed if I make some improvements
Thanks for all feedback

Jeroen