Yesterday I knew it all.....

[klinikal]

I would like to start by saying that I am very excited having just found this forum! I have successfully kept Discus now for about 2 years and even got a new couple to spawn but he liked the taste of the eggs.

Before yesterday I was Mr. Discus providing advice to other aquarium owners....now I am but a speck in the world of Discus knowledge. That is the best part...now I can start learning again!

May I request some help for my new 120 (480litre) gallon tank.? I recently struck a 90 gallon tank running 2 Ehiems and U.V. with lots of big full leafy plants, no algae. Of course it had all the new tank stuff but settled out nicely. No CO2 but quite amazing growth with swords, anubias, cabomba and that really pervasive hygrophilla polysperma.


Now I have embarked on a new project for my beloved pets. I gave them a new home in the form of a 4'x2'x2' tank with dual overflows (this was obviously made for marine but it was free to me). I understand the relationship between water agitation and CO2 loss so I opted for 2 Ocean Clear cannister filters driven by a 1200gph pump. The overflows are right full to prevent the "waterfall" effect. I have U.V. built right into one of the filters.

Now I am experiencing new algea growth so amazing that it is a wonder all on it's own. Please bear with me for tank description as this seems to be required for any help: Pure RO/DI water that is "re-made" to get a microsemen of around 80 and PPM of 50. pH is kept at about 6.7 with "Ketapeat" nuggets and "Ketapang" vital (Marc Wies products). Substrate Ecco Complete plant substrate, undergravel heating cables, Aqualight Pro light with 2 96 watt PC's with 50/50 color and 2 150watt metal halides @ 10000k color. Regular dosing with Seachems' Flourish Excel. Nitrates at about 20 PPM at weeks end and a 55 gallon water change every 7 days. Inhabitants are a light load of 5 adult Discus, 15 cardinals, 5 cory cats, 1 little bottlenose pleco.

The plants were transplanted from my 90 gallon into this tank and now they, it, everything are smothered by really fast growing loooooong flowing green hair algae. It is easy to mechanically remove but always grows back faster than my Visa account.

Now I have looked through the site and have employed the following techniques 1)In go Hyrgo's 2) Turned of the halides 3) Stopped liquid fert. but continuing with that mystery juice flourish excel. 4) Stepped up water changes to every 5 days 5)Monitoring phosphate very very low <.25ppm. But here I am unsuccessful.

Now I have read a post by vishy that indicates his nitrates are so low that he has to add KN04 to fend off algae. Ok here I where I need help. What is the relationship between low nitrates and and algae outbreak and what on Earth is KN04? The tank is now about 1 1/2 months old and fully cycled with help from the old tank. I see your tanks in pictures and I would love to someday be considered your peer in the world of "The Amazon Garden" I look forward to meeting you all here in this forum and I am hopful that my learning is just beginning.
Sincerely
Chris from Canada

[duck]

Hi And welcome
It's just a little hard to read some paragraghs would be great.

For that amount of light you need CO2 need more fert's the excel is not enough.
The 50/50 PC i take it as you have blue globes, which do nothing for plants.

KNO3 = potassium nitrate
Your phosphate is a little low.
Being a new tank, you will get algae outbreak until it settle's down.
You have to get your nitrate's and Phosphate's in some balance like 10-1.

[klinikal]

Hi Duck,
Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry about the format. New to forums in general thank for the tips

Ok so should I turn my halides back on?
C02 is an expense that I just can't enjoy at this time but it is a priority so should I keep the lights low until CO2 is on?

Yes, the power compacts are 10000k mated with a actinic blue so should I try for pure 10000k or something like 7700k? The halides I don't think come in anything lower than 10000k

I will go back to 7 day water regimine and let the water age a bit for the nitrates and phosphate to increase.

I will do a search for potasium nitrate but I may be back with more questions ;-)

Again thanks you seem to have a great handle on things here

[duck]

Keep the light's low until you get CO2.
For the PC i would lean toward's the 7700K,drop the blue's.
Sounds all ok for now.

[klinikal]

I did a lengthy search regarding KNO3 last night and now I see that it is a kind of fertilizer...at the very least it will add nitrates to the water.

I am still confused regarding low nitrates and algea outbreaks. My understanding is that algea can only get thier nutrients from the water column as they don't have roots.

If the water has no food for algea how does it proliferate?

[duck]

Basicly It's food for the plant'sNPK Nitrate,phosphate,potassium.
These are your main fert's. you could add carbon too as it's the building block.

It all about getting the plants to out grow the algae,Not nessasarily nitrate's only,It could be lack of carbon as in CO2 which i thik where you problem lie's,An inbalance in your tank ratio betwenn phosphate and nitrate's, could be light's too much,with little ferts for the plants to grow,could be to low and too much fert and the plant's can't take up the excess,Could be other thing's aswell, it's not black and white,then you got the water parameter's that can play some part also.

It's a balancing act once you get the hang of it it is very easy.

[klinikal]

I can see from the sticky thread that a MAJOR part of a succussful planted tank is the addition of CO2. I am doing ebay searches for such equipment but I am not getting many hits.

I sincerely appreciate your replies Duck. With the lower lights I have noted a significant decrease in the algae growth. I don't want to have a 1000$ CND light sitting on my tank being only 1/2 utilized so CO2 is going to have to be added. KNO3 is not somthing that my LFS is familiar with so I will continue WWW searching. I will keep you posted!
Chris

[DarrenJThomas]

Co2 is a very good addition to your planted aquarium. You can purchase setups from you local gas welding store. There are threads on this web site in regards to DIY Co2. If you need further info let me know

In regards to KNO3 Duck is right. It is a balancing act and any excess of one of the major building blocks will result in algae. And rememner EACH AQUARIUM HAS ITS OWN PARAMETERS. What is good for your aquarium may not suit mine. It is about learning what your aquarium requires by keeping most things constante ie food, light, water changes and fertilsiser. By altering one aspect at a time you will work out what is right for your aquarium.

KNO3 is sold form a chemical supplier (lab supplies) you may also be able to purchase it from your hardware store as root killer. It is used in making explosives and is restricted for sale in Australia.

Let me know if i can help any further

Here is an couple of old pics of my aquarium

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4932

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4591

Have fun :)

[atuarium]

Hi klinikal,

I just thought that i'd pop some more info in for you. I have read the posts and you seem a little confused re KNO4...

Maybe the best place for you to start is the seachem website, they have some articles on NPK and also have the relevant products... Seachem Postassium, seachem Nitrogen and Seachem Phosphate. You may want to start using their products until you can get some raw chemicals yourself...

I picked up my Potassium as Sulphate of Potash for $10 at a local nursery, my KNO4 from Greenlight hydroponics but you should try some of your fertilizer places, the only problem is they have them in 25kg bags... For phosphate I use Fleet Enema.

I see you are already using seachem excell which is your current source of Carbon and a lot of people say that it acts as an algaecide which is of benefit to you... Depending on your growth, you may want to step up the flourish excell dosage.

As for you lighting, as everyone says, 10000K is a bit too blue, I have been recommended either 6500 or 5500 as this is close to sunlight... 10000k is really only useful in marine setup's as it benefits the coral and that colour light penetrates deeper. Some people on the net even say that 10000K will cause algae, I don't know if this is true or not...

Hope this helps...

Justin.

[duck]

KNO4=no idea
KNO3=potassium nitrate

[aprofromindia]

Get some ottos and amanos, your algae would be cleared in 72 hours. Over & Out.

[klinikal]

Hey Aprofromindia and Atuarium & DarrenJThomas;

Thanks for stopping by!
I am digesting all this great advice. My first medium term goal is to get a CO2 set up. I would like to know how important a pH controller is in this situation because the water is sooooo soft. As stated I use RO/DI water that is made with "RO rite" but I still keep that water very soft. I am afraid I will get a pH crash without a controller.

I also like the idea of the algae eating creatures. I once kept amanos in a non discus tank that had neon tetras. The amanos (I am sure it was them) ate every neon in the tank! I have a nice little group of cardinals that I would like to keep. I will look around for some ottos...thanks!

DIY carbon dioxide is a cool idea...Flourish excell would be prohibitively expensive in the long term to use high doses.

As soon as I get my digital cam working again I will post some pics and catalouge its progress thanks in part to all of your help!

Do double ended 150 watt metal halide bulbs come in anything less that 10000k color? I will do a search right after this but it can't hurt to ask!

Chris

[G-1000]

You could always google the bulbs and see if there are others available.

As for the potassium chemicals - I didnt even know that KNO4 existed ? Or does it?

G

[duck]

With the amount of light you have and soft water i would get a PH controller,You don't want lose your fish due to a PH crash.

Otto's are up there,That's about it really,If you have discus the shrimp might make be a nice meal for them.

[DarrenJThomas]

I would definately reccomend a ph controller to avoid the PH crash.