Genes..throw backs ....iam confused

[flukes]

Ok been reading up on genes and trying to get the quality discus out of fry that we all look for.
While i was reading about how snakeskins are a mutation of a turq and that when breeding snakeskins you will get throw backs (9bars), i was wondering if these fish would be classified as a turq or would they just be called a snakeskin throw back.?? I know many breeders would be selling these fish as turqs but i was just wondering are they actually a turq? Do we just classify anything with 9 bars a turq?? Because surely being the fry from snakeskin parents it wouldnt look like your average blue/red turq.
Also would a professional breeder classify this as a cull or would it be sold as something else different from the 14 bars.
Just another question is snakeskins the only strain we get throwbacks from? I am gathering so because it is a mutation but is there such things as pigeon throwbacks.??

[flukes]

*cough* KEV *cough*

[jluna]

hey flukes -

i spent a lot of time as a kid breeding zebra finches (the mice of the sky!!) and did a lot of line breeding etc.

throwbacks can occur anytime with any varitiation/"breed" of a species. line breeding and keeping accurate records are simply our attempt to control nature's desire to proliferate and expand, ie, evolve, and REDUCE the chance of differences occuring.

in one sense the turq that comes from snakeskin parents IS a true turq, because the snakes hold the genetic info to make turqs because they COME from turqs, but for a breeder, of course, it is a throwback and cannot be used to breed turqs because it holds too much genetic chance of laying snake eggs... it's all a bit bizarre, and i'm only a lay-geneticist. but i tell you, you can line breed for four or five generations and suddenly be surprised by the odd baby that doesn't look anything like mum and dad...at least in avian genetics you can. i don't know if the same applies to fish genetics, but i would assume so.

nature strives to differ in order to succeed - we breed this out by having fish in tanks with no enemies ( i don't imagine white swans or blue diamonds surviving in the amazon, yeah?) but nature will always attempt a revolution.

viva la revolution!!

justin

[flukes]

Justin, I was a bird breeder aswell, but got discouraged when i had my ring neck parrots stolen. Havent been back in the game since. Same with those birds, I had yellows and greens mating and one spawn had a rarer and more expensive :o white. In the end just before they were stolen i had about 3 whites and 5 or 6 of yellows and greens, was a damn shame.
I had insurance but money doesnt replace the work you have put into these guys for the past 4 years.

Now back to the fish, would love to hear what a larger scale breeder does with the throwbacks, because really you cant sell it as either a turq or a snakeskin and labeling it a snakesin throwback isnt going to sell.
I suppose when you get to a larger scale of breeding these will be culled at a younger stage as there is only room for quality.

I was just wondering because recently bought some fish and i am quiet sure that 2 of the fish he sold me where snakeskin throwbacks.

Cheers
Scott

[sunshinediscus]

Yes a ss throwback is normally classified as a turk. No they are not culled out as long as they are quality specimens. When breeding 2 throwback 9bars from ss parents the pair will not throw true ss 14 bar fry as the 14 bar is not a dominant gene.

[flukes]

Yeah but i think if it was a quality larger scale breeder they wouldnt need to sell them as a turq and would either be culled or given away. When i begin to breed full scale (well with only breeding in mind) Quality will be the only thing in my mind and anything less will not be sold.

[sunshinediscus]

Hi Flukes,

I'm a little confused as too what you are trying to say.

Do you mean to say that 9 bar discus are junk if they are bred from 14 bar ss parents and should be destroyed??

Or do you mean only those that are not quality specimens need to be destroyed??
I'm sure this is what i was saying in my post, but if you mean the 1st question then you are very wrong, there is no way that the 9 bar specimens are rubbish just because they are bred from 14 bar specimens and no good breeder would destoy them simply because they do not show the 14 bar pattern.

[flukes]

I heard of several large scale breeders one in the states and one in Singapore that these throwbacks wouldnt be sold as turqs, or if so it would be pocket change. The one in the states said he either gives them away or donates them too a lfs.

I see what you mean that it is a turq and that it could still be a quality discus but if i was serious about breeding i dont think i could sell it. Might just be my morals, not saying your wrong for saying you would sell it, its just MPO.