What went wrong

[Jeroen]

Hello everybody,

A few days ago my Checkerboard pair have spawn...this was the first time as I have seen (i bought them as couple so they have done it before)
Immidiatly when finished they really took care of the egs.
Next morning when I came to feed the other discus they came also to the surface for feed, so I have offered them some granulate and they ate it.
Later that day I have feed them some red bloodworms...
On the middle of the day I have done a waterchange of 15%, the new water dripping back in the aquarium untill it was full (so this went very slow)

In the night when I came home from work and went to have a look the female starting to eat the eggs...A little disappointed I turned off the light and went to bed.
Next morning I was kind of surprised, the moment I turned of the light the female stopped eating the eggs, unfortunally later that day she ate the rest of the egs.

the setup is 60x50x50, 10x50x50 of that space is a internal spongefilter

PH = 6.6
Us = 220
Temp = 29 Celsius

My question is, what did I do wrong ?

1. shouldn't I feed them during the egg period (60 hrs)
2. shouldn't I change the water (the filter is working very properly)
3. have I scared her (they are very used to me, I can even stroke them when I am not feeding)
4. was there something wrong with the water value

Maybe good to know is that, when they have spawn the total ammount of the eggs was pretty much, I would guess aprox 200+ of all those eggs there were about 15 white eggs...the rest was good color and the last eggs eaten (after aprox 38 hrs) where having allready some really tiny black dot's in it)

I hope you can help me out, learn/help me to correct my mistakes...

[mistakes r crucial]

Jeroen,

I doubt you have done anything wrong at all. Personally I leave a light on 24/7 when my fish have eggs but as far as I know this is not essential. One of my pairs will have a batch of eggs and all is fine and then they eat the next two batches. If you have a very young pair as I have I think this is all just part of the learning curve for them. If they do it consistently try caging the eggs once or twice and see if that fixes the problem. Best of luck with them.
MAC

[Jeroen]

Hi Mac,

Thanks for your quick reply, I will keep an eye on it
If there is any updates, I will let you know.

Ps. that brings me to another question

I have another couple, sometimes it looks like they gonna spawn (bot discus are cleaning the cone) but then when it comes to 'the' point the mail starts to hit the femamel in het centre body area with his mouth/nose....what does this behavior mean ?

Jeroen

[Ben]

Patience is the key Jeroen.

How old are the couples?

They might still be young and need a little practise before they get it right.

As Mac mentioned leaving a subdued light on will help with the parents especially when they have newly hatched wrigglers.

Please keep us posted.

Ben

[Jeroen]

Hello Ben,

What a honour to have a reply from a discus guru as you...and that even on 2nd Xmas day

To be honoust I have no reply how old the couples are...all couples I have I have bought from other people (I wanted a quick start, not first grow up and select from the beginning)

All couples have had eggs and young before (as the seller(s) told me.

I think that these discus are between 1.5 and 2 yrs young, I will ask the person who sold me.

The couple who has eaten the eggs the male is 17cm and the female 16cm


At this very moment there is another couple cleaning the cone each day but then again, the female chase the male away from the cone...those that have a meaning ?

A picture from this couple is added
I really hope to be succesful to have young from them, they are very nice

Thanks a lot for your time.
When I can find some time I will try to photograph all my couples + showtank.

Happy xmas.
Jeroen

[Ben]

Hi Jeroen,

I am far from being a discus Guru and i am learning every day in the wonderful life of discus.

By what you have described the female is getting ready or is ready to spawn but the male not quite.

If you can i would raise the temperature to 30.c

I have found the slightly warmer temperature increases their metabolism and are more willing to spawn.

In the mean time feed lots of nutritious foods, like a good beef heart mix, frozen blood worms, and if you can live brine shrimp (artemia). Feeding live BS is almost a sure bet for them to spawn.

As you are in Holland you should be able to get your hands on Andrew Soh's product "Pro-more"

This is an excellent product that is completely natural and will "prime" your couples ready for spawning. Unfortunately it is not available in Australia.


Cheers

Ben

[goldenpigeon]

in my experience water changing while the pair has their eggs usually gives a bad result. because the pair cannot move the eggs around (they can move the eggs to a different place but it takes hours for them to do it) like they do with fry they are in a tight situation where they must defend their territory and if they can they "save" the eggs by eating them. if you are water changing while they have the eggs you are invading their territory and because your hand in the ttank is quite large to them they eat the aggs to protect them from you.

you can water change about 2 days after the wrigglers have been free swimming as good parents will sandwhich the fry between them to stop them from escaping. and also they can move the fry to a different area of the tank.

i find the best way to get the pair to raise the fry and keep stable water as fry perish quickly in dirty water is to waerchange twice or 3 times a day for about 2 days before they spawn. when you see spawning behavior give them lots of good feeds and very clean water. then when they have wrigglers stop feeding so the pair arent making waste and polluting the water so it will stay clean untill 2 days after free swimming and you water change.

HTH and good luck :D

David

[Jeroen]

Hi Ben....well, so far as I have reading at this forum you have/are breeding also quit a lot isn't it ?
Anyway, I just got upstairs and like a christmas dream come true this couple (see pictures a few messages above) have laid/layed (what is correct word) eggs.
So I'm gonna have some sweet dreams tonigt about a large family of my own breed hahaha
It's funny that you say to raise the temperature...In holland everybody tell's you to lower it.
The average temp. we keep discus at is allready 30 celsius.
Maybe it's nice to do a test to see wich one works best.
As I can tell you, a friend overhere (just met him reacently, live's in the same town as I do) have been breeding discus for a few years.
He told me for him was the best succes was to do regular waterchange and always will cold water from the tap (this water is really good quality) the the temp. will drop with ca. 2 degrees and you can see them within a few minutes see come to prepare (dance and shake) I have been trying this cold water changes and I must say I experience the same.

I do believe there is a truth in his way of doing it, cause as they told me the best season for discus in wild to breed/spawn is the rain season when the temp. drops down the Micro siemens get lower (Us/ppm)

What u think...right or wrong ? I will try to raise temp, let me know if you try the cold water change (he (and I) did a 20% water change and refill that in aprox 15 minutes, so it is not a quick drop of temp)
If you do I would love to know what are your experiences with it.

I feed them different kinds of food, but somehow the love the granuls (dry food) better.

Best Regards
Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Hi Goldenpigeon,

Just noticed your post above mine...we have been writing at the same moment (here is 02:40)
As you can read the couple (see pics a few msg up) have layed eggs.
I allready decided not to take any action so far, let's see how it works out
Lucky I did some good water changes yesterday and today also.

Jeroen

[Ben]

Hi Jeroen,

I have bred a few different types of discus so far... :wink:

When water changing if the water temp drops by 4 .c this is ok and good. 30.c to 26.c :wink:

my method. :)

water change once per day %30 for 5 days.

then on the 6th day do a big %80 water change.

presto! well most of the time. :shock:

if you can feed some other foods more often, i feed dried foods but not very often. A few times per week. :)

Please keep us posted on how your new spawn goes! :D

Cheers
Ben
8-)

[Merrilyn]

Jeroen, this is an extract from "Beginners Guide" to breeding discus, that you will find at the top of this forum.

"When everything is ready, gently catch the pair, and move them into the breeding tank which should still be the same pH as the community tank. Now you can begin to slowly drop the pH by adding peat filtered water at each daily water change. I like to change about 20% daily at this stage, with water that is slightly cooler than the surrounding water. A drop of around 2 degrees in the change water can sometimes trigger spawning. "

Thirty years of breeding and keeping discus, have shown me that one sure trigger for spawning is a drop in temperature, simulating the heavy rains that fall during the natural breeding season. That, and an increase in high quality foods will usually encourage a pair to spawn.

[Mulisha]

What about trying to get some of those leaves Ben has they are ment to be great 8-)

Good luck with ya breeding mate :lol:

[Ben]

:shock:


Not entirely fool proof.......

But it helps!
:wink:

[Jeroen]

Tell me about the leaves :-) I am very curious.Tanks for the tip mulisha.

High Merylin, 30 years breeding, wow...I am impressed, I wish I lived closer by, I am sure there is a lot of things to learn from you

I am not sure what you mean by 'peat filtered' but in holland we have special filters to make water with a lower PH
Another good way to do it is to use Oakleave extract...this drops the PH and it does contain humus (it's something that is natural in the water where discus live's)

You have mentioned to increase the high quality food and also that you are feeding htem only a few times a week the dry food
Could you tell me what your normal feeding schedule looks like and what it looks like when you increase the quality food feeding ?

Jeroen

Will you keep you updated about the eggs...5 minutes ago they were still there...so first 12 hours are passed....48 to go ;-)

[Jeroen]

Hi there all....I did took a peek through a little space in the top of the aquarium, also used the opportunity to take picture (without flash)
The couple didn't see me, so I didn't disturb them

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Unfortunally.....eggs where eating during last night, this morning they where gone.
Last night I turned off the light, would that have to do with it ?

Jeroen

[Ben]

Hi Jeroen,

If i ever get an egg eating pair i cage the eggs so they can not get to them. I use a plastic black mesh that is used for gutters to stop leaves falling in.

It works a treat as most times the couple will not eat their babies.

You will find in most cases they will eat their eggs very early in the morning.

Hope this helps,


Ben

[Jeroen]

Tanx a lot ben....
Thing is that both couples that ate their eggs was first time they had eggs in my tanks...so I think I give them a change for one or two more try's
If it still goes on, then I will cage them, what u think....better to give them little more change, or better cage them in early stage so they they won't learn a wrong habbit ?


Jeroen