Anybody fully automated water changes ?

[Bad Inferno]

Has anybody got a fully automatic timed water change system ? Looking for any experiences before I embark on the excercise

[Ben]

*puts hand up*

not on a timer but fully automatic, not sure if you have seen my post, "flow through tank"

Ben

[Mulisha]

Hey mate here is the link the Ben was refering to
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4934

Also there some very handy people on this forum that can help you out

Ryan I think also has a fully automatic system as well.

HTH

[Ben]

Oh, here is a good link with some ideas...

http://waynesworldangelfish.com/automated_water_changes.htm

[kalebjarrod]

I have done the fully automated tank but i found the semi automated tank a little easier to make and better for the fish (you can do quick water changes as you go)

i have no idea where the thread has gone,

i'll check :wink:

What where your Questions?

[Bad Inferno]

Looking at web info I think the "missing link" to automation is a controller that will provide the timing and have enough intelligence to control the valves & monitor levels.

I have purchased a small cost effective controller (16 inputs 16 outputs, temperature inputs, LCD screen real time clock etc etc, easily prgrammed) that will allow me to monitor water level (3 x float switch inputs) energise 2 x 24VDC solenoids to control drain & fill and obvisouly do this on a timed basis. I want to do small WC so I do not have to heat my outside supply. maybe 2 small 10% (slow) changes daily.

2 float switchs in the fish tank for redundancy 1 in the water tank.

I have devised a solution so as to have one tube going from the tank to outside which I will use for both gravity drain & gravity fill...water tank higher than fish tank. The tube will be place 8" into the tank and just run outside I have a tee piece one to drain one to fill outside the house.


If it does not drian when I open the drian valve (no syphon action) I will be able to automatically open the fill valve for a few second so I can fill the drain line with water, then close the fill valve, thus having enough water in the drain line to provide the syphon so the tank will start to drain. With this controller if after 1 minute it does not sence the fish tank water going down I can cycle through this syphon operation once automatically to try and fix the probelm.

OH one float switch will be hardwired in series to the fill solenoid just incase the controller goes bananas and tries to opens the fill valve when the tank is already full !

Cost to date $5.00 each for float switchs (ebay china), >$100 for controller with LCD, $17.00 4 x relay board to energise solenoids, 24VDC power supply already had, 100 each for the soleionds however wanted 24VDC units that are completly safe and open up under 0 pressure i.e. gravity fed.

This will end up being my christmas break project.

[Mulisha]

Awersome mate way to go do you have any pics so far on your project...
when is done you will be very happy being able to sit back and relax watching your fish get there own w/c without any help :wink:

Nice Work mate hope all goes well..

[Bad Inferno]

I have all the parts, I'll collect them and take a pic tonight..maybe start up a thread on the project

[Mulisha]

Yeah that would be a great idea to make another thread and do step by step progress pictures :D

[Bad Inferno]

Equipment thus far
You can see the float switchs which will easily fit unfder the rim of my tank
24VDC solenoids
24VDC perastaltic pump for ferts (ebay bargin $35.00)
As the relays and controller neeed 5-18 VDC I needed to step down the 24VDC to 12 VDC to supply the controller,relays and LCD panel (ebay bargin $6.99)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/IMG_0007.jpg


LCD panel has 2 lines of up to 16 characters...and includes a battery backed clock so that the controller can do timed events, ie ever wednesday dose ferts at 1:00pm
As the solenoids draw 300ma so I needed to use a relay thats the four black devices on the lower board
The controller has 32 inputs/outputs available I will probably end up using:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/a23406ec.jpg

Controller requirements
Inputs
2 temperature inputs (Tank & Amb)
3 float switches digital inputs
4 control button to provide manual control and page around LCD menus

Outputs
2 x solenoid valves

Project phase II will also include
1 x fert dosing pump
1 x fish feeder when I am away
1 x night light (I use high intensity LED's however at the moment they run 24hrs)
1 x CO2 solenoid override, (override PH controller when doing water change)

Project Phase III
Data logging of pH, conductivity, temperature, water change amount alarms etc etc
WEB based access to data so you can log in and view data intiate W/C view data collected etc etc

This has all been done already so no great drama with this controller the only difference is it was logging environmental data temperatures, humidity etc etc they also use it for hot house controls for opening vents turning on fans etc etc..

[Ben]

WOWSER!

Thats going to be an awesome set up mate!

thanks for the pictures and please keep them comming as you set it all up!

Cheers
Ben

[Bad Inferno]

Updated plan,
I have ordered a water pump 24VDC that is used on RO unit's, Pumps only 1.2 lpm

I was going to gravity drain and gravity fill however my outside water barrell needed to be nearly in the roof to be able to gravity fill the tank.

...so I will tee into my canister filter return line run a 1/4" line outside and attcah my two solenoids. Open the drain solenoid and gravity plus my filter will pump it out to drain or open the fill solenoid and the small 1 lpm pump will just pump water into my filter return line and into the tank.

[Mulisha]

Good stuff mate :thumb

This project should keep you busy for a while :mrgreen:

[Bad Inferno]

Last pieces in today....stainless steel cabinet bargin at ikea $55.00, sediment filter and 24VDC pump

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/IMG_0006.jpg

Hope to start the assembly next week

[Ben]

Thanks for the pics Rob!

I look forward to more pics as you set it all up and get it running!

Cheers
Ben

[Mulisha]

Wow nice mate keep this updated wouldn't mind doing this one day might have to borrow your brain though :wink:

[Merrilyn]

Rob this is going to be wonderful. Please keep us updated.

[weird]

Bad Inferno, you have my attention ... what an interesting thread ... please keep us updated.

(btw everyone, Merry Christmas !)

[Bad Inferno]

Stage 1 done today

It drains at 3 l/m and fills at 1.5 l/min...I tee'd the drain/fill line into the canisters filter return line. When I am draining I still have quite a lot of water going into the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0022.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0025.jpg

I still have to install my float swicthes into the tank and get it electrically automated, however at the moment I have two switches inside 1 drain 1 fill. I'd give you a shot of under my tank however it my scare you ! I also had to run the tubing through the toilet which is the room directly behind the fish tank..using 3/8 tubing at least I tried to make it descrete as I tried to run it in a bit of ducting.

cheers rob

Oh better give you a run down on the tubing....water comes into the bottom left corner at the pump, it then gets pumped into the filter and then into the fill solenoid. The fill solenoid and drain solenoid (has red LED on) have a tee piece installed. Drain solenoid lower tube goes to drain and you can see a valve in the top left corner this is the tube from the fish tank. turn the drain solenoid "on" to drain, turn the fill solenoid & pump "on" to fill...easy ha !

Hope you understand :)

[Bad Inferno]

Oh the white tube behind the water drum is an air line which I also run...yet to be connected

[Ben]

WOW!!!!

That is one superb set up Rob!

Once it is all up and running it will be awesome!

Thanks for the pic's

Ben

[bgi]

I implemented a much simpler system. I tap into my cold water line with one of the 1/4" saddle taps. The line is carefully tapped to provide very fine flow control. This feeds into a 1 micron sediment filter then into two carbon blocks. From there it goes directly into my 120 gallon tank. Excess water is continuously siphoned from the tank via four redundant permanently-installed airline tubes that siphon the water out into a 1/2" flexible tube velcroed to the back of the tank. I just dial in the volume required to keep the nitrates down where I want them.

I have to remember to dose pH buffer.

A little more about the airline siphon tubes: These airline tubes are attached via velcro. The inside end is cut at an angle to prevent being stopped up. They hang inside the tank down about 6" then loop over the edge to the outside. The outside end of the tubes are fixed where I want the the water level be. Whenever the water level rises above the airline tube's outside end, it siphons out.

Simple. Cheap. The catch is, you need to maintain a siphon. So if you vacuum gravel or remove water, you need to restart the siphon after you replace the water.

If the airline tubes get too much algae, the algae produces oxygen bubbles in the tube and breaks the siphon. This has happened once in a year when the tank was planted.

Upgrade planned: Use a spectrapure litermeter or other peristaltic pump to remove the excess water. These peristaltic pumps don't mind running dry. The pump's input sits where I want the water level to be. I just calibrate the litermeter to pump more than the incoming volume. That's for next month.

[Merrilyn]

Very interesting set up you have there bgi, and welcome to the forum.

Can you post a picture of your tank with the system working.

[Bad Inferno]

Nest time I buy a tank I will get two overflow holes drilled...Next time I buy a house I'll make sure my tank can be situated backing onto an outside wall so I can get tubing in/out of the house easy. :) so I can use a simple fill overflow system.

With this setup I had to conceal 1 small tube (3/8") running from the tank to outside thus the fill/drain using one tube....

I installed a small control panel inside the unit so I am now able to turn it into manual control...I also installed a key switch so any small hands (I have two kids) do not inadvertently drain my tank :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/7b5ddd8e.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/IMG_0003.jpg

[weird]

whoa baby, nice. You and Ryan should compare family trees ;)

[kalebjarrod]

loving the thread dude

Q. what type of solinoid drains the tank? is this gravity feed or is it under presure?

can i see under the tank? and the tank? wiring etc etc

can you do me a mspaint diagram?

looking pretty good, so what do you do for a crust out of intrest? :wink:

[Bad Inferno]

Solenoids: these work at 0 kpa 3/4"BSP...see solenoid topic in equipment as where I purchased them. They are expensive however did not want to use 240 VAC as I have kids around. Best 240VAC solenoid is a washing machine solenoid.

I'll take a pic....tonight

my crust : I work for an instrumentation company (Foxboro & Honeywell) for 23 years providing automating solutions for power stations, refineries, chemical oil & gas industries. On a little larger scale than a fish tank :)

[bgi]

Very interesting set up you have there bgi, and welcome to the forum.

Can you post a picture of your tank with the system working.

Ok, let's see if this works.

Thanks for the welcome!

The tank was recently redone, so the aerator will be moved away from the siphon tubes soon. Otherwise, the two blue siphon lines will catch air and break siphon. The remaining 2 hoses will be re-added soon and the driftwood will be trimmed. The overexposed white elbow fittings are part of the incoming water supply. You can see the pH probe and heater. I'll soon replace the siphon lines with another 1/4" tube for sucking out the old water. This new 1/4" line will go to the litermeter.

Sorry for the blurry full front photo - I didn't use a tripod.

The residents are all active and eating well on their first day of residency. I added three one day and the other three a week later after the small ammonia blip disappeared (0.25). So far no more ammonia and never saw any nitrites after the rebuild. The fluval internal filter will come out in a couple more weeks, and I'll add a UV soon to the cannister line. I broke the old UV during the rebuild. Sigh...

[Bad Inferno]

Here is a diagram of the system....I did it in powerpoint if you want the orig just PM me...rob

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/tank.gif

[Bad Inferno]

Finished controller this week...

functions supported thus far:
monitor temperatures Aquarium and water barrel
alarm temperature high / low

Fert dosing
Auto by amount
MAN hold to dose litres
Only allows max of 30ml to be dosed each day

Wtr Cycle
Auto -select how many litres and it will drain & fill
MAN -select either manual fill or drain to a litre amount
Alarm if water level dosn't change after 1 minute when draining and stop
Alarm for Fill if float switch not detected, Fill to an amount or max time

Next parts to get working
Display pH reading from pH meter
loging hourly data - pH , temp, water changed per day fert dosed per day
maybe look at turning on lights (which would be easy however thus far have only turned on 24VDC equipment)
Control over the internet for monitoring and water changes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/IMG_0033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/IMG_0034.jpg

[Bad Inferno]

This is the water level floats. There is two for redundancy with the temperature probe The top of my jebo tank has a centre brace and a plastic surround running around the top of the tank and this just sits at the back of the tank. I already had a small gap between the cover glass and the back of the tank where my filter tubes, air lines etc went into the tank. .It is only 15mm high so the light canopy just sits on top.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/rjconway/Auto%20Water%20Change/IMG_0037.jpg

[Bad Inferno]

OK now got automated water changes and ph controlled to within +-0.02 next challenge is up.....lets try and control the conductivity.

I have just installed an inline conductivity monitor and will add to my system an RO unit so that I will have both aged water and RO water available to be pumped in on water changes..

The plan is to have the conductivity reading proportion the amount of RO ver aged water at each water change to achieve a constant tank conductivity of 180 microsiemens.

[Bad Inferno]

When I installed my conductivity monitor my readings had been ~250 micro siemens. Thus I was thinking of RO. I installed a carbon filter in my fill line to the tank and now my conductivity runs ~190. I think this was a good investment of $13.00

I know its not the real way to control conductivity however, a water change (15-20%) generally drops by 5 microsiemens and to maintain 190-200 microsiemens I just dose it with plant fert. It seems to be very stable with regard to both plant growth and lack of algea. dosing 8 ml of sera florena increases conductivity by 3 to 5us in a 200ltr tank.

What this means is I do 4 x 15-20% wc and dose about 40ml of fert each week to maintain 190us

rob

[Benny]

Yo bad inferno!!

I was thinking of this very project 12 months ago or so, when i built my wc setup!!!

May i ask where u got that controller from? i LOVE it!

Regards
Ben

[aquafrogstuff]

Rob,

Firstly, great setup. Have been waiting for someone with technical background to go this far.

With respect to pumping, what have you got in the way of redundancy i.e. I've had relay I/O fail on me before which turned things into a real mess. Have you done much testing?

Have you looked at pic controllers or high level comms interface to an old PC (say on RS232)???

I've pondered something along these lines in the past. So many old PC floating about, including laptops, that would be great to handle things like trending. Even thought of interface to mobile for SMS in the event of event alarming, like if the tank drains below a certain water level (for whatever reason) so I can nip home from home from work before the fish end up lying on the substrate in a tank with no water etc etc.

lots of good ideas with all this. Can become an awesome project.

Ah, alomst forgot. I've also thought of having multiple lighting within the tank hood and controlled to give different lighting effects e.g. moonlighting, day lighting, no lighting etc etc

Where to next on this for you???

[Bad Inferno]

where too next....well I've focused on web enabling for the past month..however wanted an "appliance" type web server instead of running a full PC continuously and comsumming power...see another post re trending parameters via web server.

I ahve a web server setup and will progress the web pages to become a web "portal" for controlling my Aquarium. Since web enabling I am reducing the reliance on my aquarium controller (above) and will provide supervisory control via my web server to a PIC based controller that provides the water change functionality.

got to go however will PM you and can talk offline about further enhancements. Looking for someone to share some of the technology and design with.

cheers
rob