Help Please. (56K Warnning).

[Mulisha]

Hey everyone ..

I think I may have some gill flukes and not sure if I have worms though...

My fish have been in my BB 3ft tank for 1 week and 3 days have been dark in colour ever since i got them just woundering what I should do as there only 11 weeks old and don't want to kill them becuase introducing meds so early...

I have noticed them rubing up againist stuff in the take not very ,uch though and want to get on top of things as soon as possible...

So i went and brought some Fluke and tapeworm tablets from the LFS and was woundering how many tablets I should crush into a bowl to mix becuase there still young that's the reason beucase they say to add 1 tablet for every 20L and thought this maybe to much...

The tank has been set up almost for 3 weeks now and was woundering if i cleaned the 2 sponge filters and the canister filter would this cause to much loss in good bacteria and cuase maybe a ammonia spike or something..

Tank parm:0 ammonia, nitrate and nitite.
PH is 6.0
Temp is 30 degrees
KH is 0 or .5
Gh is 1 maybe a little less..

I am on tank storage water and do w/c every day does rain water have all the minerals needed for discus?

Thanks for any help :D

CHEERS


A few pics...

[Mulisha]

Hey just a thought if these fish are still eating maybe not as much would this be worms?

Also should I treat with 1 tablespoon of salt for every 40L becuase I have noticed on one of the red turk discus that there was like a scratch mark showing and the salt might help stop infection or something..

Well thanks for ya help again I appreciate it :wink:


CHEERS..

[axelfaz]

Hi rick as we spoke about last night we need to sort at the ph and kh in your tank hold off on the med until we sort out your water quility :)

Cameron

[Ben]

I would try and get the PH around 7
Don’t do this in one hit as this will cause more stress to the fish, over 4 days would be ideal.
A KH buffer might be needed to get the PH stable.


Raise the temp to 32.c


The signs they are showing by scratching the sides of their face is a clear sign of gill flukes.

I tend to think that they are not happy for some other reason and the gill flukes are giving them a lot more discomfort, this could be because of the water as Cameron mentioned.

When adding the gill and tape worm tablets add as per instructions, as by adding less this will not kill the flukes. A repeat treatment will need to be made in 7 days time.

Please keep us posted mate and if possible try and get a close up photo of one of the fish.

With time and a little help your fish will be back to proper health very soon, so don’t despair.

Ben

[Merrilyn]

Mulisha, on those readings, it would appear that your tank has never cycled. There should be some nitrAte reading. It's the end product of the cycle. With a pH of 6 you will have a lot less good bacteria in your filters, because they don't grow well in acid water, but you should still have some.

I think your frequent water changes, coupled with your low pH are preventing the tank from cycling.

As Ben suggested, get your pH up a little, to at least 6.5, then see if you can get hold of some used filter media from a friends cycled tank, and put it in your tank to give the active bacteria a boost.

Gill flukes are certainly possible, especially as your fish are rubbing themselves on objects in the tank, but I think we concentrate on getting your water right, and then we can look at the gill fluke problem.

[axelfaz]

Ben and Merrilyn thanks for jumping in on this one :wink: Rick has been using pure rain water for his water changes hense the low PH,Kh and Gh.I spoke to him on the phone last night. And surgested a couple of ways of bringing his PH up to 7 over a 4 day period.

With some of the pics i have seen the fish are dark in colour and have scratch marks just behind the gills. Which made me think gill flukes? but after thinking for a while the scratchs could have been caused by mild acid burn from such a low PH and the fish trying to scrape off burnt slime coat just an idea your thoughts.

Cameron
Ps keep us informed Rick and dont stress :wink:

[Mulisha]

Well thankyou everyone for your input.

I have set up a 200L container and added 2 handfulls of shell grit to it also a air stone and a heater set at 30 degrees.
The water is just rain water but was thinking of mixing half rain water and half town water but this is almost impossible so hopefully this does the trick.
One quick question with shell grit when adding it to the drum the reading u get from the drum after 24hrs like ph, kh, gh etc will that stay at this level or keep rising for the longer it sits? :oops:
The fish I think have improved a fair bit I have been watching them closely for like 3hrs today and only noticed them seem to get stressed when they all start pecking at each other and causing them to go darkish etc.
I was thinking would i teaspoon of salt for every 40L help with some little marks on the side of them there like fighting wounds or something and may help with strees maybe?

Well I can't thankyou all enough guys and girls have helped me out heaps with so many problems I have had.

PS:I'll let you knopw on the water parm tommorow as just got the barrel going :wink:

Thanks Again :D

[Ben]

The rain water would be perfect for breeding but is a little low in PH, KH and GH.

As young discus are growing they absorb some minerals and elements from the water such as calciums which aid in bone growth.

keep us posted Rick.

Ben

[Benny]

I've been guiding rick from fairly on in the piece with this discus keeping business....

He has had a reading of zero kH yet has had shelllgrit in the tank well before he had fish in it? Strange........?

Second, he relied on seachem stability to help cycle the tank, which is why i partly think that the readings are odd @ all zeros.

third, he HAD a cycled canister from his planted tank on the discus tank, and i have no idea why he removed it but he did...

My reccomendations... Figure out why the shellgrit isnt increasing the kH. Use a plant geek site, and add sodium bicarbonate using their directions for a specified increase in KH.

Once your pH is better, i would be putting a cycled canister on the tank again, and putting your sponge filters in the planted tank to cycle meanwhile...


Just my opinion/

[Mulisha]

Thanks Benny and everyone for ya support and help :D

[Benny]

Ben and i reckon your shellgrit aint the right stuff.... and that could be causing you issues..

[axelfaz]

Benny i think with shell grit in the discus tank and with the large water changes rick was doing it would of had no effect hense the Kh staying at 0. just my thoughts. with the shell grit in a storage drum aged of 24hrs it should raise the Kh.

Cameron

[Benny]

i also told him to age his water with shellgrit, and that its no good adding low pH water to the tank... I was given an excuse why not to do it :P

Why does he listen to you and not me?! :P

[Mulisha]

Ok I have set up the aging drum 220L and added 2 handfuls of Shell Grit to it in the drum after first filling it up was 5.6 (I don't know why so low) and also have a 600LPH powerhead for surface movement.
I had added salt to my tank last night and they stressed out something really bad and still improving from it :?
I added the salt 1 tablespoon for every 40L.

Here are some pics and there all Red Turks i have 5 of them...

PS: Do juvinile discus go very skitish becuase if one gets scared pr spooked they all do and go crazy around the tank :(

Comments and anything else is appretiated :D

[Mulisha]

Excuse the dirty bottom floor just after feeding brine shrimp such messy stuff :lol: :lol:

[Mulisha]

A few more pics.

[Mulisha]

More pics for those who like them :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Merrilyn]

One tablespoon per 40 litres is quite a lot of salt to add to the tank.

I usually add one TEAspoon per 40 litres.

Try doing a waterchange, without adding any more salt, and the salt will gradually leave the water.

[Mulisha]

Ok have sorted a few things out now :D

I have got my KH to 4 degrees and a ph of 7.2 (The ph tester is dark green in colour the chart isn't the best).

I am using Seachem Alkaline Buffer at the moment and it is very strong stuff hope my dicus survie the the rise in ph becuase i added half the recommened dose and has gone from 6.5 to 7.5ish in one hit... they seem to be all ok though just stresed.

I have also got some Sera Aqutan it is a anti - stress product and have found it worked well so far.

This has been the biggest learning experience ever and sudgest any new people starting out with discus to start off with some cheaper discus (Home breed fish are always good start out with maybe a bit cheaper).

I have had many different problems with my water now I hope it will start to show with my fish becuase at the moment are very dark and stressed.

Well thanks everyone for your help. I'll keep your posted on how things go..... :wink:

[Mulisha]

Merrilyn I must have got the amount of salt mixed up and yes I did a w/c and diluted the water but with all these different things happen to them I just hope they survive :?


CHEERS everyone....

[clothahump]

The tank has been set up almost for 3 weeks

Totally uncycled tank, I would not even dream of putting Discus into an aqaurium unless it had been running for at least 3 months.


I am on tank storage water and do w/c every day does rain water have all the minerals needed for discus?

Short answer is No, it needs remineralising before use or you will end up with wild pH fluctations as already pointed out, is there any way you can move the fish to more suitable conditions?
Have you got a fully cycled and stable aquarium already running?
Can you take them back to the LFS? at least that way they might survive.

[Mulisha]

I do have a cycled tank and I have moved the bottom bacteria sponge from my canister on the planted tank that has been running for 9 months and put it on the 3ft tank.

I have added gravel to the tank and has helped with stress now there happy as and eating like pigs.

These discus are more like Goldfish they have survied well through this rough patch with water quality etc

I know I have been messing around with water quality etc but this has been a learning curve for me and heaps of ways.

Thanks for everyones help it wouldn't have been possible with out it.

CHEERS Thanks Again... :D

[clothahump]

Great stuff Mulisha, the old sponge will most definately help with the problem, Good Luck with cracking this.

[Merrilyn]

I'm pleased to hear that you are getting on top of things again Rick. Discus are pretty tough, and can survive a fluctuation in pH, so long as everything else is in their favour, like plenty of food, warm temperature, clean water conditions.

Try to maintain your pH around 7 and keep adding shellgrit to your tank to keep the level of minerals up. This will also assist with maintaining your pH.

Keep up posted on your progress. :P

[Mulisha]

Will do thanks Merrilyn been a great help :D

[Mulisha]

hey quick question this may sound very very dumb but thought i better ask :lol:

With Red Turks they have black stress bars on the side of them i think lol..when my tank was BB they all were very dark in colour and had very dark bars on there body the whole time there were in BB now I have them in a graveled tank they have all turned orange colour and have no bars AT ALL on there bodys and very almost light orange colour i was just woundering is this normal colour when there 12 weeks old?

And is there bars ment to be showing or something?

Thanks for ya help.

[Crocky]

Hi Rick

We used some potassium premanganate on my fellow discus mate when his fish wern't the best,just like yours and it made a hell of differents within 15 minute,stopped hiding and losted most of there darkness.I mixed 2gms to 100ml of water and used 10ml to 100litres tank water.Just use an air stone and and leave for 24 hours.You can find imformation on pp in a few discus getting around at the moment.
Brad.
P.s worked for us,but take care and do some of your own research as its dangerous stuff.

[Benny]

The tank has been set up almost for 3 weeks

Totally uncycled tank, I would not even dream of putting Discus into an aqaurium unless it had been running for at least 3 months.


I have put discus in an uncycled tank, with only 1 cycled canister...

3 months is hugely excessive, and IMO entirely unnecessary. it takes normally two weeks to do a fishless cycle, and about as long to colonize bacteria by running the filter on a established tank....

[clothahump]

Best we just disagree then.

[clothahump]

Just out of interest Benny how long you been keeping fish?

[Crocky]

Stop fighting people
I think its up to what works for you and what your aim is in that tank.All my small tanks they are not cycled which have pairs and fry (1month to 4 month old) but i do daily w/c on these( 10 to 80%).My big tanks all have large filters which are cycled which are stocked pretty heavy but l do less w/c on them.

Brad

[Mulisha]

Yeah thanks guys for ya support fish seem to be getting more happy every day :D

What temp should the tank be at for 12 week old Red Turks?

Thanks :lol:

[Crocky]

most people have temp between 28 to 30 degrees,but again I have seen tanks at 26.

Brad

[Mulisha]

Ok thanks I have mine set at 30 degrees at the moment i'll see how it goes.. :D