Nitrate/Co2 troubles

[Foz in Oz]

Hi all,


I am having algea problems in my 4ft Discus tank. I am getting green algae on glass and on my plants. I think its due to having high nitrates (about 50-60ppm). No matter what I do I can't seem to lower it. It must be something in the filter thats causing it because I have hoovered the tank and cut back my plants dead leaves. I also have a nitrate remover in the filter and am using 10ml of prime to detoxify it with a 25% hoovered WC a week. I have tested the tap water I am using and that is zero.
I am now thinking its the sponge in my fluval 404 filter...
My Question:
How often do you need to change them and why, is it because they can harbour nitrate??

Also I cannot seem to keep my Kh at 4, even with my CO2 injection. I am trying to get my Ph down to 6.8 but it stays at 7-7.4 depending on when I add KH up and do my WCs. I can say that over 1-2weeks my Kh depleats to 2 from 4.

My other perameters are:

KH = 2-4
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Phosphate = 0-1mg/l

My tank hold about 165 litres of water with all the plants rocks and driftwood etc, I have 4 discus about 70mm dia each, 6 neon tetras, 6 rummy nose tetras, 1 bristle nose, 1 blue ram and 2 clown loach. I feed them once daily with 2 cubes of frozen food. I do the 25% WC every week religeously, the tank is not in direct sunlight but does face a large sliding pateo door. I have 2 new bright white tubes which are on timers for 8 hrs a day (3-11pm) and I also have a uv steriliser attached to the tank in side of my filter.

Every water change I add:

5mm Seachem Flourish
" " " Iron
" " " Potassium
" " " Excel
" " " of Kent Discus Mineral
and KH up accordingly to get it too 4KH
and I also have flourish tablets in the substrate.

It doesn't say anywhere on the packaging that anything contains nitrate.

Please, please help!! Its driving me mad cleaning the algae every week.
Thanks!

[Benny]

HRmmm.....

50-60ppm is pretty darn high nitrates for discus ....

I like to keep mine less then or at most about 10ppm...

but from what it seems, your nitrate to phosphorous ratio seems outa whack... It should be at 10:1 (nitrates:phosphates)... I think if you increase your WC regime, (i do 30% twice weekly on an understocked tank) You might bring the ratio into balance and could solve the algal problem (altho i might be wrong!)


I hope it works for you,
duck the planted tank god may be able to shed some light on the topic

[Proteus]

Try cutting back on the Flourish for a few weeks :wink:

[G-1000]

Just an opinion here as a side note...

If your nitrate concentration is 60 ish, then ideally you would be looking to reduce that down. Aiming for around 20 would seem realistic. Bear in mind that you will need to increase the frequency of the water changes to counteract the nitrates. I say this because you need cut your nitrates down by 2/3rds so just try doing 3 water changes of 25% this week and see if it brings your level down to a more ideal point.

Like I said - just a suggestion

G

[rtraher]

Hi Foz,

What brand of bulbs are you using and how many watts are they? It's possible the algae is from the location. I had a tank in a similar situation that was a constant problem until I moved it to a dark corner. Is the tank heavily planted? What are you using to raise the KH? Flourish has nitrogen in it and once it goes through the nitrogen cycle it will turn into nitrate.

Cheers,
Russel

[Foz in Oz]

Thanks for the advice guys, in answer to your questions russell on my my bulbs they are 36watt powerglo and a 36watt aquaglo.I wasusing Kh/Ph up by sera now I have changed to Hagen Kh booster because its cheaper. The tank I guess is moderately planted... Thanks Proteus I will cut back on the flourish and I didnt relise that nitrogen was in there. I dont want to do more WC if I can help it, I dont think I am overpopulated and I dont over feed. Doing more water changes than I aready do with the co2 hooked up will only give me Ph swings. benny how do you do 2x30% a week without the swings? Do you have co2 too?

[Benny]

I dont run co2...

I have black gravel (river stuff) and it buffers the ph... Since i established the tank, i havent seen much of a change in pH...

[Squid]

Your nitrate levels would be great for my hyroponics!! I agree with the aformentioned replies. More water changes and knock off the flourish. Another cause could be that there is something in there thats producing some good quality ammonia and your biofiltration is too dammed good! Check for decaying matter, and use a gravel cleaner/aggitator when you do your water changes. Any organic matter decaying wil produce ammonia, even if you think your gravel is clean, it might not be

[rtraher]

You can use sodium bicarbonate (plain old baking soda) to raise your KH, it's a lot cheaper. My KH stays fairly constant. Once I got my tank up to 4 dH I only need to add baking soda to bring the new water up to 4 dH (the water that is put in during each weekly water change).

One teaspoon of baking soda added to 50 litres of water will raise the KH of the water by approx 4 dH.

Cheers,
Russel

[duck]

Something is a miss here.
Have you tested your test kit?go to the LFS and get them to test it, good to have a second opinion,How long have you had the tank running?You might getting a build up over time, with 25% WC might not be really helping to reduce it.
Your bio load doesn't seem high, but i would increase the WC to 30-40%.

Don't stress too much about the PH swing to much, I do a 50% WC every week,My tap water PH=7.3-4 my tank water is 6.4PH and no problem's but i do it slowly like an hour to refill, not in 10 min or you will end up in all sort's.

What is your KH out of the tap and PH?
I would also change your lighting timer's to 11AM-9pm-10 pm.
Why don't you use bi carb to raise your KH?It's even cheaper.
You might want to increase your Phosphate a little to about 1-2ppm,I'm taking that you have Green spot algae, then raising the PO4 a little will help.
Sorry i got this all over the place hope you can follow it .

[vishy]

Hey mate,
Just a quick question why are you addding ferts if your not adding co2? You chouldnt need to add much at all if any,
Thanks
Matt

[sammigold]

We were having trouble keeping our kh up even though we added shellgrit and we didn't want ph rising too much. LFS sold me this stuff called KH Powder+7 it raises your kh and keeps your ph at 7. It actually worked. Now we have kh of 3-4 and a ph of 7.
Cant suggest too much about the nitrate problem sorry but this stuff helped with our KH issues.
The brand is Aqua-pics and it is called KH Powder +7. HTH

[Foz in Oz]

hi all,
thanks again for all input, its much appriciated. here are the answers to your questions:
the Kh out of my tap is 2-3 and the Ph is 7.3-4
the reason for not using bi-carb is that i was told you need to have bi-carb as well as carbinate and the liquid form is some sort of mix of the 2. dont know if thats bull just to sell it to you.
to vishy, I am adding co2 mate, as well as fertilisation. some plants need other aditives and minerals as well as the co2. cheers.
I have bought several test kits and took sample water to my LFS and they are the same readings.
Thanks

[duck]

Then i can only see one solution here you need to increase the WC you do or add more plants,you a getting a build up of nitrate.

But iam suprised that you are getting to a high level with plants in the tank.
As for the bicarb,that all you need to add,You don't need to add anything extra.
Any pic's of your tank?

[Foz in Oz]

this is my tank after its been cleaned. When you say I dont need to add anything, do you mean fertilisers??

[Foz in Oz]

another shot

[duck]

this is my tank after its been cleaned. When you say I dont need to add anything, do you mean fertilisers??
I was talking about the bicarb not the fert's that you need.

[Foz in Oz]

do you think I need more plants going off the photos, thanks Col

[rytis]

nice thank Foz,
i always had algae problems in new planted tanks fora few months then always have no algae problems whatsoever accept in the one which has some direct sunlight - ok yours doesnt... i suspect maybe your lights are too bright? how many watts? also more plants would eliminate green water if that's what it is, but it wouldnt be too got for your other plants....

if you lower light, water will be less green, and give it time and balance: ENOUGH C02 is another important thing, coz without it ligh is just used by algae... also potasium and iron is important to add, dont wory about adding nitrate...

[Foz in Oz]

I have no green water just stringy green algae over plants. I have just done a 40% WC and have not added any fertilizers just to dilute it a little. I have also switched the 3rd tube off, so only have 2x36watt tubes on now from 3pm til 10.30pm and I leave the blinds closed on my windows all day for the past 4 days, so deffinatly no light comming in during the day now. How much pottasium and iron should I be putting in with every 25% WC?(the tank is 165litres of WATER.) and what plants are a good absorber of nitrate? (are some better than others...) The temp is 28.3*C.
Sorry for the questions, have only been using co2 for 8 weeks and have only been keeping discus for 7 months...

[duck]

do you think I need more plants going off the photos, thanks Col
one or two more maybe
Hope you don't mind a couple of ideas
Some vals behind the lotus,The stem plant near the lotus to the left i would spread them out a bit,Put the hygro in the left corner to hide the gear and the plant that's there move to where the hygro was and that little stone border replace with a bit of wood or rock,One last thing i would put the magnafloat in the cupboard. :)

[duck]

I have no green water just stringy green algae over plants. I have just done a 40% WC and have not added any fertilizers just to dilute it a little. I have also switched the 3rd tube off, so only have 2x36watt tubes on now from 3pm til 10.30pm and I leave the blinds closed on my windows all day for the past 4 days, so deffinatly no light comming in during the day now. How much pottasium and iron should I be putting in with every 25% WC?(the tank is 165litres of WATER.) and what plants are a good absorber of nitrate? (are some better than others...) The temp is 28.3*C.
Sorry for the questions, have only been using co2 for 8 weeks and have only been keeping discus for 7 months...
Cut bck on the iron you dont need as much as you think to every other week at most. leave all the light's on and i would suggest to increase the lighting to 10 hour's a day.
Potassium i would add about 10 ml a week,What about Phosphate's you would say need to add some you running at .1 i would keep it up around the 1-2 ppm. sorry i missed the last post

[Foz in Oz]

Thanks for the advice duck, the reason that the magnafloat is there is because I'm cleaning the algae off every other day. Its a pain in the arse.. as soon as I rid the tank of algae the cupboard is where it will eventually live. I don't know what you mean by stone border? Its gravel which is along the bottom and I'm waiting for the hair grass to take off and give me a good ground cover. The rock which is there I think gives a good contrast to the tank. The hygro in the right corner is already hiding the CO2 reactor. Also I was told that vas is one plant that doesn't like co2. As far as plants using more nitrates than others, what about some wisteria in the left corner to hide the gear? Will this absorb the nitrate anyquicker? Also one reason why I haven't loaded up the left side with plants is because the discus like to hide there. Knowing this now, which plant would you think will suit that left corner?
Cheers Foz

[duck]

I was only joking about the magna float.
Looking at the pic on your left you got a border happening it looks like(to the right of the magna float), not the right that looks good.
Val's like CO2,Wisteria would look good on the left, once it get going it should use quite a bit of NO3.
I would still suggest to increase the WC to atleast 30% or a bit more if you can.

[Foz in Oz]

Boarder:
If you are reffering to the red wood frame of my tank directly under the magnafloat, well this is the wooden frame on the exterior of the tank. If it is the dark structure to the right of the magnafloat behind the orange/red pigeon blood, then this is a piece of drift wood root. You can see the trunk behind the fish going up towards the left back corner of the tank.
Will keep on top of my WCs, thanks again for all the advice.
PS could you post a photo of your tank please, it would be interesting to see the plants in an astablished co2 tank. thanks Foz

[duck]

this is my thread in the photo album,from start and how it progressed and the GW at the end,NOw that i have have a clean tank i will post more pic of my new layout very soon.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2377

[Foz in Oz]

Nice...
I have just added a bunch of wisteria on the left hand side behind the drift wood and some more bocopia to the centre instead of the val you suggested. I have spread out the baby pink tears too. Also added some forground plants in the form of banana lillys x2 at the foot of the stump. Also a big Sisilopsis i think its called, the big leaf thing to the left. Its looks a bit like but is not a blue stricta. Will post images later when lights come on. I have also scattered some shell grit in the substrate to raise the Kh and Gh, hopfully the co2 will start to lower the ph now. i have also added a white swan discus too, I couldn't resist!!!