Hole in the head

[loopus]

Hi
I think that my discus's have hole in the head. One of my discus has holes or gashes on the front of his head and they are getting bigger :shock: . I have since noticed that all my other discus are starting to get them. They do seem to be a little bit stressed but they are eating well and are acting normal. I have added salt to the tank and changing 20% of the water every two days but that is not helping.

Below is a picture i took, its not very good but its the best one i could get.

http://tinypic.com/e9dcg6.jpg

I circled one of the holes, if it makes it any easier to see.

http://tinypic.com/e9ddfn.jpg

I have some Wardley Promethyasul would this help treat it?, or should i just try and get some Metronidazole.

[Benny]

is the fish showing any other symptoms? Hiding in the corner? dark? Clamped fins? White mucusy faeces? Are they still eating??

Metro is the most desired med for treating hex..

LR has posted dosages for metro in another thread, if its in early days, 250mg/40L is the appropriate dose, however it seems your fella might have a more serious case, in which case you can treat the strongest dose of 400mg/40L 3 times a day, with a 30% Water change in between each dosage...


Before you medicate, just wait for her opinion, she will be on sometime later today.....

Regards, and best wishes

Benny

PS If the little fella is still eating, you have a very good chance of treating it, and soaking the food in metro for 10 mins before feeding/treating is the most desired method of treatment.

PPS WELCOME TO DF.. Sorry that your first post, has to be in sad circumstances :(

[loopus]

Hi Benny......

Hes not really showing any other symptoms, other then massive holes. He is much darker but still eating strong. Doesn't hide. I think i saw white faeces when i was cleaning the tank, i didnt really pay that much attention to it but. He's faeces is brownish colour at the moment. It looks like he has a line of small holes going across one side of his body which i havn't seen before.

The other discus are no way near as bad. Should i put him in a tank by himself when i medicate.

Also if you soak the food in metro do you still need to put the metro in the water?

Cheer's
Lucas

[Merrilyn]

Hello Lucas, and welcome to the forum.

I'm not totally convinced that your fish actually has hole in the head disease. I think we need to look for some more symptoms first.

Remember that fish do have nostrils, so that would account for two holes on the front of the face. They also have what it called a 'lateral line', which is a sensing organ that forms a line along the middle of the body. It's more noticable in a plain coloured fish, like a blue diamond, but it's a definate line.

One of the main symptoms of hole in the head, or hex as it's sometimes known, is white jelly like droppings formed as the fish sheds the lining of the gut to try to rid itself or the irritant.

If your fish is showing normal brown droppings, then I think it may be something different altogether.

Adding a little salt to the water is a good move, but before you rush to treat with antibiotics, I'd like you to observe the fish for a few days, and increase those water changes. A lot of problems with fish can be corrected by a little salt, heat, and more frequent waterchanges.

[Merrilyn]

There is an excellent article on Hole in the Head disease at Discus Page Holland. A bit long winded, but well worth reading.

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spironucleus.shtml#1.%20%20Introduction%20–%20Comm on%20Symptoms

[loopus]

Hi Ladyred

I had a read thought the article it was really informative. It said that an nutrition shortage could cause holes. I feed flake in the mornings and bloodworms at night. I’m going to start giving them an extra feed of bloodworms during the day. See if that helps.
The light fell in the tank the other week, maybe they got a shock and it did something to them. It was only in there for a couple of seconds.
At first I thought the holes might have been from the large discus pecking at him but all of the discuses have them now. Can they inflect damage on each like that, as there’s no aggression unless there’s food. Two of the other discus only have small pin holes around 7-8 each anyway.

Just a bit of a update. The holes are getting bigger, they are more like craters now. OMG :shock:. They cover the whole of his face and there is a really deep one right above his eye. It looks really bad but it just doesn’t seem to bother the poor fella. Its getting worse every day :( . Im going to start putting in a bit more salt which the extra w/c.

[Merrilyn]

If the holes are getting bigger, then that's definately hole in the head. Can you get some metro from your vet. That is definately the drug to use now, and I'de use it at the stronger dose of 400 mg per 40 litres of water, every 8 hours, with a waterchange before each dose.

Keep the tank lights off during treatment, and soak some of their dry food in the dissolved metro and water before adding the rest of the drug to the tank.

The treatment is more effective if they're still eating, as the drug goes straight into the stomach where it does the most good.

It might be worth while thinking about investing in a UV on that tank, if you don't have one already.

[loopus]

I've just finished the metro treatment. I was only able to get 300mg per 40 litres, dosing every 12 hours. As i took the last of the vets supplies.
How long should it take for the holes to disappear or should they have already disappeared :? . I have a feeling that the treatment didnt work as they dont seem any better. I guess i will have to see if it gets any worse.

[Merrilyn]

A good varied diet, and lots of water changes are the treatment now. Adding some green vegetables to the diet seems to help in the recovery. So if you make your own beef heart mixture, add some spinach or green peas to the mix.

Just watch your fish now. It could take several weeks for the holes to heal. They begin to heal from the inside out.

[loopus]

Things are getting worse :( . It’s gone from bad to very bad.

The holes are definitely getting bigger but at a much slower rate then before. There are no symptoms of HITH but there are new problems.

Their fins are rotting...decaying away. One discus also seems to be getting real skinny but he’s the biggest and gets the most food. They are eating, like they haven’t eaten in a week. It’s crazy I’ve never seen them so hunger but im feeding them twice what I normally do. They have also become rather skittish.

I did a ammonia test today and it was 5.0ppm :shock:. Isn't 1.0ppm deadly? I have doubts how accurate the kit is as it’s a year old, but I tested it 4 times and also tested the tap water and it was 0. Could ammonia be the cause of my problems?

[Benny]

holy cr@P mate, WATERCHANGE ASAP!!!!!!

Ammonia is NO GOOD, if u have some ammolock now would be a good time to use it, otherwise try reducing the concentration of the ammonia, with waterchanges.. Do you have anything decaying in the tank that would cause the ammonia to spike? Have you had any severe blackouts, or cleaned the filter of late?

Good luck mate

[loopus]

I did clean the filter but that was a couple of weeks ago. Found that the one of the hoses was kinked yesterday this would have reduced the flow rate. There’s nothing in the tank decaying but waste. Just did a couple of 50% water changes and ammonia is around 2 now...I’m going to do another couple in a hour or 2, just have to get some water ager.