White marks,

[mcloughlin2]

Last night i was looking at my discus and two of the discus i got from SLS tails seem to have been bitten....im thinkig itz fin rot or something but there is something else.... :?

There are also some white marks on the sides of nearly all my discus...only small but im not sure wat they are....Fungus maybe??? I sure it isnt white spot as the white marks are a bit to big some are as big as a 5cent coin...

Should i treat the tank for fungus???

Ph: Bout 6.3
Temperature:30degrees
Nitrite:0

There is a ornament thing in the tank which might have scratch them and there is also a piece of slate that is leaning on a rock so that could have scratch them aswell.....

I will test for ammonia and post the results as soon as i can....

Can someone help me???

Sam

[mcloughlin2]

I think it is possibly hexamita....the fins seem to be rotting away....the fish are darker, and some seem quite skinny and they often wen i watch them face the back of the tank...

They ate some frozen brineshrimp and some flake last nite though.....

Any help plz...???

[mcloughlin2]

I have dosed with 250mg of metro per 20g of water... im planning on changing 20% of the water this afternoon unless someone here tells me otherwise....

I was told to do small frequent water changes raise the temp to 34degrees and add epsom salt....is this the right thing to do?? :(

Im devastated.... :cry: .....there has been no improvement,if there has been it has been little...these fish have cost me a absolute fortune and i have been saving up for them months if something happens to them,i dont no wat im guna do.... :(

Sam

[kevkoi]

Water test results?

If they were fine in the shop when u got them, they should be fine unless there is a drastic change in water chemistry. Keep pH between the 6.5-6.8mark. Make sure the water is soft (so no shells or ornaments that may leach calcium carbonate). Keep the temperature up. Feed lightly.

When u move a fish, it is always wise to quarantine the fish for a week or 2. Keep discus quarantine tanks simple, bare bottom, minimal ornaments.

[mcloughlin2]

Ammonia test result: 0
Ph: 6.0-6.3
Nitrate:0
Temperature:34degrees

[mcloughlin2]

Have just done a 20% water change and have add epson salt at a rate of 1tbs per 20L of water...

I have stress coat stuff should i put that in???Or will it be to much as there is metro and salt already in the water...

[axelfaz]

Mc I would let the metro run its course you dont want to go mixing med :wink:

[mcloughlin2]

Yeah thats wat i thought as well...i wont add anything else unless told otherwise.... :D

[Merrilyn]

Sam, I'm sending you my mobile number by PM.

First up, do a big waterchange to remove the epsom salts. Epsom salts are used for constipation in fish. I don't think that's relevent in your case. The dose you have in the tank is quite high, so a big water change is in order first.

I'm, wondering if the pH in your tank has dropped recently. pH burn can look like finrot, and can affect some of the skin of a discus.

The metro dose you are using is a bit high, so I would suggest you use the following:-

250 mg per 40 litres of tank water, every 8 hours.

Change 30% of the water before each dose.

Keep the tank dark. Metro is affected by light. (Room light is ok, just not tank lights)

Continue treating every 8 hours, (the full dose each time) for the next three days.

You should begin to see some marked improvement in the fish within 24 hours.

Are there any visible signs of white, jelly like droppings from the fish. That's a sure sign of Hex.

[mcloughlin2]

Update.....

Did about a 40% water change today and did another dose of metro and salt as i still dont no wat is wrong with my discus....they seem to get there colour back after i do the water changes...

I have lost 3 bn and one cory.....

I just came home and one of my discus has pop eye.....

Symtoms are as follows,

#White slime, has gone now though....
#A white dot on some of the discus's eyes
#Some scratches on the body of the fish....
#Some are eating,only one didnt really go for the food which is the one with the popeye...

I have posted a msg in the illness section about the bn and cory that have died....but anyway could it be coz of the salt,metro or 34dgree water temp??

And are there any other things i could do???

Thanks,

Sam

[axelfaz]

Hi Sam just a quick question do you use cycle? I ask because if you over dose you get a bacteria bloom and this can burn the discus slime coat and also cause cloudyness in the eyes. I might be wrong but popeye is usally caused by bad water quailty what are your water par. And are you using aged water for these large water changes.

Cameron

[Merrilyn]

HI Sam, did you get rid of the epsom salts. It really is the wrong stuff to use in this case. I saw that you got that advice from another forum, but it's wrong. Sorry.

The stuff you need is plain old cooking salt, or rock salt. Totally different stuff.

It still sounds like acid burn to me. Especially now that the eyes are showing a white dot. For the fish with pop eye, that's usually bacterial, and the metro should help that a lot.

Bristlenose cannot tolerate any salt in the aquarium. It's an irritant to all scaleless fish. The salt would have killed the bristlenose, and I suspect the dropping pH and the increased temperature would have killed the cory.

Always best to treat in a hospital tank if you have one. Never use salt in a planted tank.

[Dee]

Hi Sam,

First up, sorry to hear your having the troubles you are :?

I think Merrilyn is correct in saying acid burn is the culprit, the white dot in the eye and "fin rot" sound alot like you have had a PH crash, resulting in acid burn. Also the fact they colour up after water changes ... ie reducing the acidity of your water, sound like it could be the case.

If you have soft water (low KH), have added large fish, are feeding lots or have high nitrates this will all bring your PH down. Test your KH and if need be raise your KH to stablise your PH at around 6.8 or so. Do this slowly over a couple of days, best to raise the KH of your water in your storage drum THEN add it to the tank as opposed to adding KH directly to your tank. Once you have the KH up (around 2-3degrees) in your tank, add some shell grit to keep it stable.

Personaly I would lower the temp to 30-32c and keep up with daily 30% WC's and keep the tank super clean, the salt should also help. After a week or so of super clean water and a stable PH all should hopefully be ok.
Metro is mainly used for flagelette (sp) and some bacterial infections. so unless they have either of those two I would personally stop the metro treatment ... just my opinion. Super clean stable water can do wonders.

Best of luck with them Sam, try not to throw to many meds at them for now. Hope That Helps ... just my 2cents worth.

Cheers,

Dee :)

[mcloughlin2]

Ph still seems to be stable....tested this morning and its about 6.0-6.3...

Will do more tests in the afternoon.....

Axelfaz, yes i was using cycle.....but the LFS said that u cant overdose and it said that on the bottle.....i duno...

Its very hard to keep discus...............

Sam

[axelfaz]

hi mate hows it going better i hope i mentioned the cycle because it happened to me a couple of years go it says you carnt overdose but i add more then what the bottle surgests and my discus went down hill like yours so i did some research and found out that i had caused a bacterial bloom in my tank the effects are the some as acid burn.large water changes over 3 to 4 days cleared it up.

all the best
Cameron

[Bill T.]

I wonder what pH the lfs had the fish in? If it was a lot higher than yours, maybe the rapid change has affected the fish?
By the way, do you run a U.V. steriliser? I had a lot of trouble with bacterial infections untill I got one - suddenly no more problems!
Is there plenty of oxygen in your water? The higher the temp, the lower the O2 content. I keep mine at about 29C.
Also, I wormed my fish with a product not currently available on the shelves. Easier to use than met. & apart from a slight ammonium spike for a few days, no ill effects and no recurrence - could tell you about it personally.
Hope your fish make it!

[mcloughlin2]

I got the fish from SLS....there ph is about 6.5 i think so there isnt a massive difference there....the fish are worse this afternoon...

I called SLS to ask for advice and was told to put a broad spectrum medicine in there and that is wat i have done.......

I am not adding any more salt to the tank merrilyn.....

And im not going to put any metro in there...i will see how this new stuff goes,as i dont think metro and salt were working....

Sam :)

[Dee]

HI Sam,

Sorry to hear the fish havn't picked up mate :(

Ph is a logrythmic scale of mutiples of 10, meaning that a PH of 6 is 10 times more acidic than 7, and a PH of 5 is 100 times more acidic than 7. While discus can tolerate a PH change downwards, say of 1 full point .. ie Ph7 to Ph6, this would have to be done over a minimum of 24 hours if not longer for no ill effects. If your fish went from a PH of 6.5 to say a PH of 6 in a short time (1 hour or so aclimitising), in my opinion this could result in PH burn and stress the fish. So in theory a Ph of 6 would be 5 times more acidic than a Ph of 6.5, which could be alot over a short period of time. Im sorry to waffle on about water chemistry, but I learnt the hard way and am hoping the info helps.

You could possibly be dealing with a secondry bacterial infection as result of the PH burn, which the broad spectrum med could be more suitable for as opposed to a narrower spectrum med like Metro. Anyway mate, once agin sorry for waffling on and I could be way off the mark with this post :oops:

Best of luck with your discus, keep us all posted on how they go ... with any luck they will all be fine in a few days :wink:


Cheers,

Dee :)

[mcloughlin2]

I dont think it is a ph burn....well it might be but i had discus in the tank for about two weeks b4 i got these new ones so unless i had a ph crash i think that is ruled out....

No improvement really....Michella from SLS said it may take up to two weeks b4 they are completely healthy again....i have lost all my bn in that tank that i was growing up for breeding and my two cories from the salt....

I will keep u updated....thankyou for all ur help....


Sam :D

[Dee]

Hi Sam,

Best of luck with them mate, keep us posted on how they go.

Cheers,

Dee :)

[mcloughlin2]

I have lost 2 of my 7 discus.. :( ..ammonia is sky high....bout 5ppm but seems to be dropping....will keep u updated.. :wink:

-Sam

[Merrilyn]

Oh Sam, that's awful. Sorry to hear that.

Keep doing those big waterchanges till you get the ammonia down to zero.

It sounds like something has killed off your bio filter and your tank is now going thru another cycle.

[mcloughlin2]

They seem to be improving...there is hardly any white stuff on them exept for 3 which have it on their eyes but even that is slowly disapearing... :)

Have to buy more plants for the tank as i threw the other ones out incase they had the illness as they had this white stuff on them too....
:(
Sam..

[mcloughlin2]

After getting a bit better the discus have got worse...another one died today.... :(

I now have 4 discus left....two seem ok still not wat i would call healthy but...while two are pretty sick....

:( Sam...