Merrilyn's beef heart recipe.

[Merrilyn]

This is my own beef heart mix, refined over many years of breeding and raising discus. I find this one to be the best for colour and growth of fry, and for conditioning breeding pairs.

I have an electric mincer, so it makes life easy, but you could also use a hand mincer or a food processor. All the ingredients come from the supermarket or the health food shop, and are readily available. This makes a large amount, so you may like to halve the quantities.

2kg beefheart, thoroughly trimmed of any fat and sinew

1kg Shrimp, the small orangey red ones

1kg green prawns, shelled and de veined

1kg of any white ocean fish fillets (don't use fresh water fish)

1kg Salmon (yes I know, but your fish are worth it)

1 cup frozen green peas

1 cup cooked carrot

1 heaped tablespoon of Spirulina powder for every 2kg of mixture

half a cup of minced garlic

A cup of good quality flake food, to bind it all together. (I use Breeder's blend flake)


All this goes thru the mincer twice, so it is all thoroughly mixed together.

It then goes into a big bowl, where I mix by hand (wearing gloves, or you'll have green hands) for about ten minutes.

At this point you can add fish vitamins or any other additives you may like. I like to add NaturRose (astaxanthin) and Pro More, but the choice is yours.

A good spoonfull of mixture goes into each zip lock bag, flatten them with a rolling pin or by hand, and lay on a tray to freeze flat.



I feed this twice a day to all adults, three times a day to juveniles, along with tetra bits and blood worms and mysis shrimp. Little and often is the secret with feeding discus. Their stomach is only as big as their eye, so fill it often and you will have terrific growth rate.

[mcloughlin2]

Merrilyn,

If u dont mind me askin around how much does this all cost...and how long does it last?? :D

Thanks

Sam

[Merrilyn]

Gee Sam, I've never really stopped to work it out.

I have a lot of fish, but that seems to last me a long time.

I guess if you say, that each adult discus eats about half a teaspoon of that mixture a day, it works out cheaper than dry food. LOL

But I figure, my fish are worth it :wink:

[Shobert]

Hello!

Just wondering but...

Do you cook the beefheart beforehand? Or is everythng just raw except the carrots?

Can discus eat cooked beefheart?? How come the carrots get cooked but not the peas... :?

Thnx

[Ben]

Hi Shobert,
Welcome to the forum!

The beef heart is minced uncooked, as cooking will toughing the meat fibres.

Cooking the carrots makes it easier for the fish to digest. Whilst with the frozen pea's, freezing helps break down the pea structure making it easier to digest aswell.

HTH

Ben

[oscar]

Just a quick note to offer a bit of support for this food. A while ago i made a batch of this, and a batch of the Seafood Mix in the other sticky. The discus never really took to the seafood mix, but as it cost a significant sum of money to make, i'll continue to try and sneak it in untill it's gone.

This mix however, the discus took to immediately and feverishly. They love it! The growth in some of the fish is quite impressive.

Apart from the fact that it smells pretty average, i'll openly say this would have to be one of if not the, best food(s) getting around.

[CKT]

it is also tasty for human if u cook it ...

[jim from sydney]

This is my own beef heart mix, refined over many years of breeding and raising discus. I find this one to be the best for colour and growth of fry, and for conditioning breeding pairs.


Gelatine dissolved in boiling water, to bind it all together




Merrilyn.....i am about to have a go......any updates to this??????
1. fresh salmon fillets and deep sea salmon i guess?
2.how much gelatine do you use?
3 beefheart from butcher as a whole or shop shelf? weights would differ a lot.
.....thanks ....Jim

[Merrilyn]

Hello Jim, the 2kg of beefheat is the weight after removing all the waste. You can skip the salmon if you really want to, but I find it makes the mixture much more palatable, and because salmon feed on deep sea krill, which have in turn been feeding on plankton, it's gotta be good for them.

Must confess I'm getting a bit lazy lately, and have dropped out the gelatine, other than that, it's still the same.

Hope your fish enjoy it.

[Phlipper]

Interesting that this recipe, and some of the others contain a bit of garlic. Is there a reason apart from aroma ???...........garlic has often been used to ward off internal worms { and the occassional vampire }so I'm guessing this may have the same desired effect on fish ???

[Nathan]

garlic is quite good for humans, it acts as a sort of detoxifier. so it must work the same on the fish. im sure someone else could help on that one

nathan

[rsoares]

Hi!
I noticed that you also feed bloodworms, but I always been told not to feed Discus that, since most freshwater worms contains parasites. You don't have any parasites issues or do you treat them regularly to prevent it?
Thanks.

[Phlipper]

Ummmmm, I thought it was only live Black worms that can be of concern, frozen Blood worms are Ok as far as I know ????

[marg]

Well I bit the bullet and let the moths out of the ole purse and decided to make up Ladyreds mix as my last concoction was almost finished.

Seeing as how I wasn't sure what my Fish would think of it as it is very different from what they have been eating I halved the mixture (plus it's a bit easier on the purse strings for me).

I couldn't get any shrimp (none of the Shops in my area had any), so instead put in another 100g. of white Fish Fillets and put the whole lot through the blender a couple of times, then added the Spirulina and started mixing.

Smelt and looked foul (you're right about needing gloves Merrilyn), and I thought "Uh Oh - they ain't gonna eat this" - but I was pleasantly surprised!! They made short work of it last night for tea, and I gave them some more this morning for brekkie. The Clown Loach, Bristlenose, Knife Fish and Rams all seemed to enjoy it too, so success all round.

I might add that before I bagged it up I weighed it out of curiosity and it came to 3 kilograms. It's not a cheap mix to make up for someone in my situation however if you were feeding good quality commercial Food only such as Tetra Bits and good Flake, I think that this would most likely come out in front.

Thanks Merrilyn :D :D :D , I can now say that I've tried it and can thoroughly recommend it.

Regards,

Marg.

[Phlipper]

I'm using the mix as well on all my fish, nothing turns it's nose up at it, the only problem I found is grinding the mix fine enough..........think I need a new mincer. I left out the Salmon...........I bought some, but dam it..........I ate it myself :oops: :roll: All my Catfish and Loaches go nut's over it as well.....a good feed indeed :P

[jim from sydney]

Hi Margo......

How are you??

you are right about Merrilyn's mix..........great mix alright...i made it up last week, also except the shrimp, my fishshop said that shrimp comes from sydney harbor and fishing is banned there now due to the dioxin scare...hence no shrimp.

I substituted crab meat and boy do they like it.

i made up 2.5 kg in proportions to the recipee and weighed it before i bagged it and the total cost was about 40 bucks.

some time ago i bought some "discus food" whatever that is,
100 gms for $6.50 just to try out.

so if you do the maths you see that equivalent weight in discus food would cost $162.50

and you can be sure that Merrilyns recipee has food with a quality a 1000 times better than what ever is in discus food.

so no comparison is possible here i think, i am sure you will agree.

i told Merrilyn the stuff is good enough to serve up with a greek salad in a ***** restaurant.

Good to have friends dont you think????

Regards.

[marg]

Yes Jim I agree.

Everything is going well here in Wagga Wagga - starting to get a bit cold though!!

Regards,

Marg.

[Merrilyn]

Glad your fish like the mix guys.

I think Jim's been serving it up on dry biscuits to his visitors :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry Jim, couldn't help myself :oops:

:P

[jim from sydney]

Glad your fish like the mix guys.

I think Jim's been serving it up on dry biscuits to his visitors :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry Jim, couldn't help myself :oops:

:P

Merrilyn

How did you know that?????....i did have a lot of visitors, where you perhaps one of them????? there were a few strangers amongst them....LOL

[Merrilyn]

That was me in the red dress in the corner Jim. :wink:

Thought the dip smelt strangely familiar :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[shayesmommy]

just curious i have this recipe and your sounds much better what do you think..

10pounds beefheart
1pd shrimp
1/2pound flakefood
6oz spinich
6oz spirulina powder
2oz of paprika spice as a color inhancer?
6 packs of gelitine
10 multivitamin tablets for human consumption


see ur making the fish real food. why would u put flakes in it? like salomon better ( i got a giant fish in the freezer from the occean. for free
why is paprika a color inhancer?
and why human vitamins?

[shayesmommy]

**** thats sounds bad

"i got giant fish in freezer from the ocean for free"

what that meant to say is i have a whole salmon in freezer that my dad caught himself in the ocean then was frozen. lol for free.

that didnt sound so good ..
:)

[Escher]

I've recently made a batch similar to ladyred recipe; just added some mussle and crab meat in place of the shrimps I could not find (I bought everything from Wollies) and used spinach instead of peas. I had some reservations about the strong garlic flavour (smell) but the fish absolutely love it!!! :D
I've notice though many other recipes have a mucu higher ratio of BH. Do you think this would make a difference, as far as being beneficial for their growth? :?:

[jacksta]

Hi Folks,

To anyone who has made this mix,i was wondering if my sea bream fillets and Paradise prwns owuld do a good job?I know the the proprtions don't have to be exact,but is there a cheap way aroudn with spirulina,a bottle costs like $30 here :shock: more than the Salmon. Will this mix be even better if i mix scallops or as many seafood as i coudl find?

cheers,jack

[enigmatic]

I'm very keen to do this having seen how the Discus took to the frozen pack I bought at Fish Rock.

Anyone of the Central Coast made this mix?

I've tried everywhere local to me on the Central Coast to get Beef Heart but not having much joy. Local butcher wants me to buy at least 5 Kg of heart to make it worth his while.

The only other way I can see I can get Beef Heart is to buy the frozen cubes at the LFS but this will get very expensive and will affect the mix.

Woolworths tried to sell me "Heart Smart" beef :x

It's a last resort to buy 5 Kg - does anyone know of a local butcher I can try?

[samir]

Woolworths tried to sell me "Heart Smart" beef :x

:lol: :lol: :lol: they tried the same with me. sometimes, coles has lamb heart. turkey heart is very good if you can get your hands on some. the cubes not good as its very hard to get the fat out.

[enigmatic]

sometimes, coles has lamb heart. turkey heart is very good if you can get your hands on some. the cubes not good as its very hard to get the fat out.

As a rule I stay away from Coles as I've found them to be hopeless and worse than Woolies. I'll make an exception and remind myself it is good for fish :)

Will look out for substitutes for Beef Heart.

I don't know why it is so hard to get "proper" food these days. I grew up working in my Dad's shop and the bacon came in as half a pig and it was cut up from there. Now shops get it all in pre cut, pumped full of liquid and in festy bags.

Will get off my soap box. Showing my age and my pommy roots. At least I'm now an Australian citizen :D :D :D

[jim from sydney]

I've tried everywhere local to me on the Central Coast to get Beef Heart but not having much joy. Local butcher wants me to buy at least 5 Kg of heart to make it worth his while.

The only other way I can see I can get Beef Heart is to buy the frozen cubes at the LFS but this will get very expensive and will affect the mix.

Woolworths tried to sell me "Heart Smart" beef :x

It's a last resort to buy 5 Kg - does anyone know of a local butcher I can try?

Hi Pal

Beefheart is the heart of a cow taken from the animal when slaughtered. Most butchers dont stock them as their is very little ask for it. They need to order it most likely from the Oberon abatoir where almost all of Sydney's meat comes from. That is no problem however most butchers dont like to order just one.
5 kg is not bad for a heart anyway. i order a few at the time thru a butcher in Eastwood and most hearts are around the 4 to 6 kg each anyway. I usually get 2 or 3 and keep them in the freezer for when i want them. Remember from the 5 kg at least 50% is waste in fat and muscle and blood which all have to be taken out. Not to worry it is very cheap to buy you need to plan a bit as it may take 2 weeks or more to get.

Once you have it you will be pleased, beef heart is full of protein.

Be careful "Heart Smart" beef is not the same , this is normal meat from the animal but fats have been removed. IT IS NOT THE HEART that you want. The name is confusing to people "Heart Smart" beef simply means it has the approval of the Heart Foundation People as non fattening meat. It is useless for what you need for the discus and too expensive anyway.

Substitutes like sheep and other hearts are much less in value and the last lot to buy is crap from the shop that has soo much rubbish in it, you will be surprised.

So my advice .......order the beef hearts from the butcher and be nice to him, you will need him again.

BTW Lady M's recipe is excellent i use it all the time.

Cheers Jim.

[enigmatic]

Hi Jim,

I know it's not the butchers fault. Just voicing a general gripe over what shops stock these days :lol:

I know "heart smart" isn't a heart based product - I just found it funny that staff in shops would try and sell it as an alternative.

As it stands, I went round every shop in the area today and was set to go and ask the butcher for him to order some when I found diced beefheart in the chilled pet food section of Woolies. Have bought several packets (they were about .5 Kg each) and will now get other ingredients and a grinder.

Cheers,

Chris

[scott bowler]

chirs thing is you have to cut every thing of the heart mate all the fat sinus and vains its hard work when its diced . i used to be a butcher and when i worked a t woolie they used to put every thing it to that so make shore it is beef heart mate , just dont want you to make any mistakes sorry mate .you can ask at woolie if they have whole beef heart they will give it to you they will just put it on a tray and price it well good luck mate

[samir]

you can ask at woolie if they have whole beef heart they will give it to you they will just put it on a tray and price it well good luck mate
never thought of asking them :oops: it took me a couple of hours to clean some diced beefheart i got from there :roll: . Fortunately the butchers around where I am are really nice, or i'd be cleaning diced woolies beefheart for the rest of my life.

[scott bowler]

i used to be a meat manager there and beef heart comes in whole the butchers cut it up there all you need to do is ask there prity cool then you dont have to work so hard haha

[jim from sydney]

Hi Chris

All of that is great advice. Still it looks best to go for the original heart of the animal.....in tact......and do the cleaning yourself, at least you then know what you get.

I believe the butcher is still the answer. I have had plenty (as i am sure many others have) problems with the larger food chain outlets and with expensive discus to consider, we cant take risks.

The cost would also be less at the butcher , i am sure.

The few packets you bought......ah well try it otherwise feed them to the cat.

btw......i found if you make the mixture do it on a cool day as it takes a while to clean and mix etc. and the meat could get affected by the heat if left out too long. i usually am for a cold or rainy sunday, and than in winter and make enough to last 6 months or so.

goood luck buddy

[enigmatic]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Well I was out getting lunch in Gosford today and tried my luck at the butchers in the Imperial Centre. Fully expected to get the sharp intake of air, shake of head and a hard luck story but the guy was straight back at me "no problem, how much would you like, when would you like them?".

You could have knocked me over with a feather duster :D :D :D

All being well, he'll have stock on either Sat or next Mon.

Now I'm just hoping it will cool down more so I can make this mix. Just got to get the other ingredients.

The butcher asked what I wanted it for and knew of Discus and told me they would grow well on it. May have to take him the recipe :D

[scott bowler]

thats good chris if anyone has trouble getting it let me know i can get it from my bloke im getting 5kg tomorro and it no trouble. so if you guys cant let me know and i will get it for you and you can sort it from there with me cool

[jim from sydney]

thats great news guys, pleased to hear you got some after all that effort.

i wonder if it is worth just listing the butchers' names and phone numbers for easy reference so we can ring them next time before all that looking around again.

Interested?????

Cheers.

[Merrilyn]

Sure Jim. Start a new thread and I'll make it a sticky.

[jim from sydney]

M

done see
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92186&sid=a8663d80ddcc9351df41b55ed36060da#92186

cheers Jim

[Phathead6669]

Have a question about the shrimp that is added. Is this the same type of shrimp you would get on a "Shrimp Ring." The small red/pinkish white shrimp.

I read the whole thread so hopefully I didn't over read and miss my answer.

[Merrilyn]

Any kind of shrimp will do. Either shrimp or prawns, it's all the same thing and will naturally add colour to your fish.

[mistakes r crucial]

Don't know about Sydney but Qld Woolies stock BH in 500gm and 1kg trays already trimmed of any fat etc. It works out more expensive than buying it from the ol' butcher down the road but saves a messy job.

Did I read something about the Heart Foundation ticking meat now? Is this the same foundation that puts a tick on margarine that is chockers full of trans fats and has molecules one step away from plastic, what a joke!
MAC

[enigmatic]

Well I'm still waiting on my local butcher. Seems he has placed the order but no news of when it will be filled.

Going to Erina Fair in a while so might try the Woolies butcher to see if they have any whole hearts.

[jim from sydney]

may take 2 weeks or so, be patient Bud.

cheers

[enigmatic]

Butchers promised a call back but didn't. Will try and call in during the week if I get out the office for lunch.

Tried Woolies today and they reckon that the only beef heart that they can get is the pre packed chopped stuff I've already bought.

[enigmatic]

Well I made up my mix a couple of weekends back. Had to use the Woolies pre packed chopped stuff as I couldn't find any more anywhere else.

All I can say is thank heavens for electric mincers :-) I started out with a manual mincer but this was slow as.

Discus showed very little interest at first so I was a bit put out given I'd made about 3 KG of the stuff. They now seem to love it and are growing out really well.

My local butcher then phone on Sat to say the heart had arrived so I have 3 large pieces of beef heart in the freezer now to trim and mince.

Cheers,

Chris

[Discus Dan]

How will I know if my discus will eat it, before I make up a batch of this?

[Kingkat]

They will eat it Dan, it might just take them a while to get used to it but they love it once they do.

[enigmatic]

They will eat it Dan, it might just take them a while to get used to it but they love it once they do.

Have to agree - I was wary when I made loads. Now my Discus can't get enough of it.

[lachlan]

how do u store :?:

[the german]

in the freezer

[lachlan]

how long does it last in the frezer. most things don't last longer than 3 months

[the german]

when you pack it right 6-12 month,i put it in freezer bags and roll it out so it is thin and easy to break.

[viobank]

garlic is quite good for humans, it acts as a sort of detoxifier. so it must work the same on the fish. im sure someone else could help on that one

nathan

using garlic mixtures,the ALICIN( main ingredent ) remains active for just one hour,after that hour passes ,the garlic losses all its effects but one,the scent.

[Erk]

I would really like to give this recipe a shot, however, I dont have a mincer, but I could prolly borrow one from somewhere...Im curious tho, what is a green prawn, and will the supermarket carry spirulina powder, or is that from the LFS? I will prolly do halves for the first time around. My discus eat a variety of foods, but its all the frozen cubes you buy at the LFS...nothing mixed up together. What is sinew? In the beefhart, that I need to remove? Im def. not a cook of any means, but I think I can figure it out....I just need a lil more information on what to get, and how to make it safe for my fishies. I guess I dont need to worry about the gelatine?

Any help, or suggestions for someone in the states, would be greatly appreciated! :D

Thanks! :D

[Erk]

Ok, so I understand what sinew is. I went to a few supermarkets on my way home from work today, and so far I cant find beefheart, but i will call some local butchers tomorrow...they all closed before I got done with work. The orange shrimp...should that be cooked already? Does it matter? I cant find any "green prawns" and Im not exactly sure what Im looking for in the "white ocean fish fillets"? got salmon, peas, carrot, and minced garlic, and a food processor :D Prolly gonna skip the gelatine this time around.....so I could use a lil more info on the above things Im having trouble with, and it seems like the spirulina is from a health store?

Thanks very much, I look forward to making this as soon as I can find all the ingredients :D

[Erk]

I finally got around to feeding my discus this recipe...followed to the T, except for the spirulina powder, but I used the algae wafers with spirulina in them. I fed them about 4 times so far, and they just keep getting better and better! Im so excited now! The first time, they ate it, but not from my hands but the second time, they sure came and ate from my hand...then on the third time, as soon as I opened the lid they were up at the top of the water, which they never did before, waiting for the food!! Then the fourth and final time I fed them it, I more or less had to make them move outta my way to put the food in, but all four of them come flying up to it, and just peck away!! Its great, and surprisingly, the food really sticks together very well Its like I have completely different fish at feeding time

Thanks very much for your help!!
Eric

[fish_r]

great to hear Erk, well done m8 :)
much better than packet food too...

[Erk]

Absolutely! :D Im just glad they seem to be settling in better now, and I think its cause of this recipe....I still feed them the frozen stuff from the LFS, but I do like them eating what I made better....I know its good and fresh this way! :D

Thanks again!

[TW]

I made this recipe last night and am I glad I only asked the shops for 50% quantity. Even so, I finished up with 5kg of the mix:shock: With only 5 juvenile discus in the tank - I don't think I'm going to run out for a very, very long time.

One Discus took to it straight away - so I guess he has had beef heart before. But the the rest have been slow on the uptake. A 2nd one has now taken some, but the 3rd comes over to the feeding corner & Just looks at me. I think he's saying "come on mum - where's the bloodworm" . Hope he gets the idea soon. Planning only offering the mix for a few days, to see if the hunger causes him to eat.

[TW]

I have a question about one of the ingredients.

"1kg Shrimp, the bright orangey red ones"

Is this the same thing as cooked orange prawns?

Thanks in advance.

[fish_r]

it took my fish a while to get them onto the beefheart mix TW but when there onto it they love it :)
usually when prawns are orange there cooked, i would recommend using fresh or frozen "uncooked prawns"

[TW]

Hi fish_r

I've already made a batch & my fish love it, but I'm querying what these ingredients actually are & if I've misunderstood. Here's an extract from Lady Red's recipe
1kg Shrimp, the bright orangey red ones
1kg green prawns, shelled and de veined

I assumed this to be 1kg green prawns (uncooked) & 1kg red prawns (cooked) but wonder now if I've misunderstood the ingredient list. Are red orangey shrimps something completely different to what I assumed them to be (cooked prawns)?????

Thanks.

[sportivo888]

hmm....i gonna try this information to make b/h...
but just only carrot cooked??
how about other?

[Erk]

Nope sportivo888 only the carrot gets cooked....nothing else

I made a batch of this a while ago, and the second time I fed it to my fishies they ate it from my hand....they didnt really do that before with other foods. Give them some time to get used to it, and they will love it!

Good luck

[enigmatic]

My fish love this recipe but I do have one question about how I can improve it.

I've stored mine in a container and it has frozen solid like a block.

Ages ago I bought some from Fish Rock @ Eastwood and whilst it was still frozen I could scrape it out easily with my fingers and it would crumble.

What can I add to my mix to make it easier to use?

[JamezMan]

How much gelatin do you use?

Thanks.

[enigmatic]

How much gelatin do you use?

Thanks.

I don't add any gelatine into my mix.

[JamezMan]

Merrilyn. How much gelatin do you add?

Also, what happens if there is a bit too much garlic in the mixture?

Thanks.

[metalman]

I have just made up a batch, It smells delightful!!! my wife is very impressed!!!LOL

[waterchanger]

What are your thoughts about replacing the beef heart with turkey heart? I am having difficulties getting beef heart but turkey would be available.

[valkyrie]

[/quote]Hi Pal
I usually get 2 or 3 and keep them in the freezer for when i want them.

[/quote]

Question :?: , are you freezing the beef heart whole/chopped up etc. and then defrosting them to make the mix then refreezing them again. This is not recommended for humans due to possibility of bacteria developing during the defrosting stage. Would this not hurt your fish. Just curious.

Cheers

[jim from sydney]

Hi Pal
I usually get 2 or 3 and keep them in the freezer for when i want them.

[/quote]

Question :?: , are you freezing the beef heart whole/chopped up etc. and then defrosting them to make the mix then refreezing them again. This is not recommended for humans due to possibility of bacteria developing during the defrosting stage. Would this not hurt your fish. Just curious.

Cheers[/quote]
I freeze them in small cubes and then defrost one of them if needed. Easy

Cheers

[ILLUSN]

Just made up my latest batch of this stuff.
theres a few other suppliments in my mix, some Naturose, Promore, Progrowth, fishtamins and I used scollops instead of orange shrimp which brings the price up a bit.

For those who wanted to know the costing, it worked out to $40.18kg

compared to colorbits which cost $67/kg ($20/300g) this mix is excellent value for money, and far better for your fish then dry food alone.

[gypsy3]

jeeze illusn!!!...we could have had a lobster dinner for that ... and a few drinks.Still, you got your priorities right, the fish are MUCH more important :) It is great stuff, due to make some more in the next couple of weeks myself.

[enigmatic]

I have to agree this really is awesome stuff. I've added some other stuff to the mix and make it in small quantities so that the wife doesn't baulk at a large bill.

I added some of Andrew Soh's Pro More to the last batch; waiting to hear back on how to get some more.

[Merrilyn]

Some experts on fish nutrition claim that the amount of protein and vegetable matter should balance. In other words, if you have 1kg of protein, in whatever form, beef heart, fish, shrimp, liver etc, you should add 1kg of vegetable matter.

It's supposed to allow the fish to fully digest the protein component of the food mix. They claim that in the wild, discus feed on small shrimp and fish that eat a large percentage of vegetable matter, so wild discus would be getting partially digested vegetable matter in their natural diet.

Now, I'm not sure I totally agree, as from what I understand, small tetras make up a huge part of the diet of wild discus and they're not totally vegetarian, so there would be a very small amount of semi digested vegetable matter in their gut.

Anyway, if you feel the idea has some merit, then there would be no harm in increasing the amount of vegetable in the beef heart mix.

[rwel4809]

I made up a batch of this mix for my two new discus, who up to that point (the first two days) had shown very little interest in food. They took to it immediately and now fight to get to it!! They still turn their noses up at dried food - I've tried dried bloodworms, krill, blackworms, colourbits and more - but as soon as I drop in the beefheart they go wild.

Aside from the health benefits, the colour given by the spirulia is great for making the food stand out so the discus can find it in a heavily planted tank like mine :)

[jim from sydney]

I agree.........if it wasn't for my discus......I would eat it myself LOL

[FNQ]

For those tempted to use imported prawns because they're cheaper, consider that they:

Potentially have antibiotic residues accumulated in the flesh
Harbour diseases. Remember, they can be imported for humans to eat, but not to feed to fish for exactly this reason :!: :!:

Both of these issues could impact on the long term health of your pride and joys

[godprint]

hi guys, i tried making my own mix.

but somehow i couldn't get it the bind properly. it goes really soft after sinking to the bottom of the tank, a bit from the discus would kinda spread out the piece of beefheart.

i use gelatin. but i think i'm doing it the wrong way. can anyone advise how to use gelatin properly to bind them up?

thanks!

[Merrilyn]

If you use a food processor or blender to process the beefheart and other ingredients, it will turn the mix into a mush, and it will break up and cloud the water as soon as you put it in the tank.

The best thing to use is an old fashioned mincer. You can pick up a hand mincer fairly cheaply at most big department stores or kitchen shops. If you're really lucky, you may have an electric mixer in the kitchen that has a mincing attachment. Better check with your wife before using it though :wink:

I don't use any gelatine in the mix these days. I find that the mix holds together pretty well as it is. I think it may be the salmon that binds it together (don't use tinned salmon, that's not the right stuff).

The beauty of this mix is that you can add or delete items as you see fit. If you can't get green prawns for instance, then leave them out and substitute mussels or oysters. It won't make a big difference to the food value.

If you've got some flake fish food that your fish don't like, then mix it into the beefheart mix. If you've got pellets, you may need to crush or soak them first before mixing in, but I can guarantee you fish will happily eat the whole lot, and even look for more.

Keep the quality high. No stale or spoilt food. You're going to be freezing and keeping this mix for a few months, so start with the best quality you can find.

[gypsy3]

how long will this stuff last in the freezer.I made some up about july last year and still have some blocks left.Would they still be ok?

[Merrilyn]

how long will this stuff last in the freezer.I made some up about july last year and still have some blocks left.Would they still be ok?

Well you have to remember that fish is one of the ingredients, so......

3 months is safe
6 months is probably still okay

after that, I'd toss it out.

[godprint]

If you use a food processor or blender to process the beefheart and other ingredients, it will turn the mix into a mush, and it will break up and cloud the water as soon as you put it in the tank.


thanks for the great advice. i now know why it all break up. haha... mmm i don't have a traditional mincer.

i guess i will have to trail and error with chopping and smashing?

:roll:

[TW]

Hi there

Something I' still confused about is the difference between these 2 ingredients on the recipe in this thread, on page 1:-

1kg Shrimp, the bright orangey red ones

1kg green prawns, shelled and de veined

I always thought the the bright orangey red ones were green prawns that have been cooked, but from reading the recipe, I must be wrong.

What is the difference between a shrimp & a prawn?

[Gone Fishing]

Hi Godprint,
I had the same question, because on the packet (DAVIS Gelatine - from Coles) is says; 125ml of hot water to 3 teaspoons of gelatine.
I made double the amount for a 2kg of beef heartmix and it stays bound together very well and floating for about 8-10 seconds them drops slowly to the bottom.
When it gets there it still stays together until the fish find it then its all gobbled up soon after.

P.S. Mind you I did just use a small cheap hand wound mincer I got from ebay for $16. Perhaps Merrilyn is correct when she recommends a mincer.

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[TW]

Hi Gone Fishing

I use gelatin as well, and I used a food processor (not a grinder). My experience is the same as yours. My beef heart floats for a few seconds, so I hold it for those seconds & let it go when it's ready to sink. It holds together very well, doesn't disintegrate. The discus take their bites & break off a mouthful & eat it, but nothing else disintegrates. It can hold together for a very long time, but usually get the chance to (the discus love it).

If I add it to a hospital tank to try & tempt a fish who isn't well & not eating, if I leave it & come back hours later - it is still held nicely together, but rather soft by now. Easy to remove in one clean piece from the tank.

I think that as long as your food processor is powerful enough to finely mince everything & also as long as you use gelatin, it will not disintegrate in the tank.

Even so, as the experts say a grinder is better, I'm looking into buying one now & hope to have it soon. Will still probably use the gelatine, as I like how it holds it together so well.

[Gone Fishing]

Hi Gone Fishing

I use gelatin as well, and I used a food processor (not a grinder). My experience is the same as yours. My beef heart floats for a few seconds, so I hold it for those seconds & let it go when it's ready to sink. It holds together very well, doesn't disintegrate. The discus take their bites & break off a mouthful & eat it, but nothing else disintegrates. It can hold together for a very long time, but usually get the chance to (the discus love it).

If I add it to a hospital tank to try & tempt a fish who isn't well & not eating, if I leave it & come back hours later - it is still held nicely together, but rather soft by now. Easy to remove in one clean piece from the tank.

I think that as long as your food processor is powerful enough to finely mince everything & also as long as you use gelatin, it will not disintegrate in the tank.

Even so, as the experts say a grinder is better, I'm looking into buying one now & hope to have it soon. Will still probably use the gelatine, as I like how it holds it together so well.Mincer not grinder.
Sorry for being picky.
I like specifics.

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[TW]

Mincer not grinder.
Sorry for being picky.
I like specifics.

Yep, I know. Sorry. Slip of the tounge (or fingers LOL) & used wrong word. :oops: You can see by this thread that I know it's a mincer.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16087
The main thing I was trying to say is if you use a food processor, IMO it will work fine if you use gelatin, but seems if you don't use gelatin, a mincer is the go.

[godprint]

hi guys,

not sure if i got a grinder or mincer, going to try using it later. :)

i mix gelatin too if i used a food processor, but somehow , it stays in shape if the little guys don't touch it, but once they attack it, it kinda spreads out and cloud the water shortly...


oh, regarding using a grinder/mincer, how many times do i have to put the heart through it? 1st through big holes then fine holes or both plates together and go through twice?

what's the right texture? thanks!

[Gone Fishing]

Twice through is usually enough and it's not a grinder its a cheap small mincer you want. nothing fancy.

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[KrisR]

Hi there

Something I' still confused about is the difference between these 2 ingredients on the recipe in this thread, on page 1:-

1kg Shrimp, the bright orangey red ones

1kg green prawns, shelled and de veined

I always thought the the bright orangey red ones were green prawns that have been cooked, but from reading the recipe, I must be wrong.

What is the difference between a shrimp & a prawn?

Sorry but I thought I would bring up TW's question again, for the fact that my local seafood shop laughed at me and told me the same thing - that green ones are raw and red ones are cooked... On a side note he also warned me against using cheaper supermarket grade salmon and fish fillets on the basis that they might give the discus white-spot or other infections (I'm pretty sure he was just promoting his own more expensive "organic" salmon but now I am wondering if he was right?) I ended up using whitebait in my mix rather than white ocean fillets. The fish still love it - the only real mistake I made in my first mix was using bottled garlic rather than fresh.

[godprint]

Twice through is usually enough and it's not a grinder its a cheap small mincer you want. nothing fancy.

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

hi jason,

thanks!

i tried making on sunday, didn't cloud water, but the pieces were alittle too big for them to bite. haha... so now i know what to do next time...

been trying to get it right for 4times already. lousy me... boo hoo

[Merrilyn]

The only reason I recommend cooked (orange) small shrimp and larger green prawns is that's they way they are usually offered for sale. It's the easiest way to get a mix of cooked and raw prawn flesh.

I suppose it doesn't really matter if you use one or both, but I was just concerned that the cooking process may spoil some of the vitamins in the prawn meat, so I was just trying to ensure that they didn't miss out on anything. My fish seem to like the taste of the cooked prawns or shrimp better than raw, on the occasions when I've fed it alone.

As I've said before, you can add or delete items from this recipe according to availability. The only thing I wouldn't eliminate is the salmon, due to it's high palatability.

Hmmmm supermarket brand fish causing white spot ...... nope, I don't think so. The reason we use salt water fish flesh is so that we don't transmit diseases.

Got to admit, he's a good salesman though :wink:

[TW]

Thanks for clearing up the orange shrimp & green prawn issue. Understand now.

[rwel4809]

Does anyone feed beefheart mix to their Goldfish??

Is there any reason why not??

Robert

[Hollowman]

I would tend to say not, I don't have experience, but I would think that even though they might eat it, they are more used to eating flake foods, high protien food for goldfish might give internal problems.

Also why spend good money on BH when flake is much cheaper? :)

Hollowman

[rwel4809]

Thanks for the reply Hollowan,

I was advised that beefheart is probably not the best for goldies on another forum also...

I'm just keen to grow the little beauties up, so I might give some of Mal's blackworms a go along with flake and pellets...

R

[Scat]

Hi,

Has anyone used the seachem garlic guard instead of raw/minced garlic before ?

Cheers
Craig

[waitaki]

imo raw garlic is best - 100% pure :D

[waitaki]

imo raw garlic is best - 100% pure :D
damn, I spent hours making this mix last night, by the time I cleaned up it was 2am!! My mincer needs attention I thinks!
The puppy loved this mix, fish were a bit ungrateful this morning; but have decided it's not too bad tonight 8-) 8-) 8-)
thanks Merrilyn

[Scat]

Hi having made the mix last night ive found that even using the mincer im getting alot of particles when i fed this tonight any suggestions ?

Also they spent more time fighting around the food rather than eat it ???

Thanks
Craig

[waitaki]

put a dessert bowl in your tank, down the bh mix into it and let them feed from that, it cuts down on the amount of particles floating all over

[Scat]

Thanks will give that a go !! :D

Craig :D

[pink66]

I have been out and about collecting all my ingredients and finally I am ready to give it a go.. But I have a question before I get going..

I have some tuna and scallops that are already frozen. How does it all go if I incorporate it into the mix and then re-freeze them.. I am concerned about bacteria..and the possible effects on my fish :? :?

Does anyone else use frozen fish in their mix and then re-freeze and then finally feed to their fishies.. or do i need to track down only fresh and never been frozen items (I ask this also because down my end of the woods I can only find frozen green prawns - which i would need to unfreeze, peel, use and then re-freeze.

thanks in advance for your replys..

[TW]

Hi Sharon

My sister is a home ec teacher, teaching French, pastry and commercial cooking at TAFE. I asked her this question, as my local butcher tried to convince me to buy beef heart that has been frozen. What she said was that the rule is that meat (& I guess this applies to seafood) can be frozen twice, but only under certain circumstances.

Meat that has never been previously frozen can be frozen while raw. Once thawed, if you cook it, you can freeze it a 2nd time. You are not meant to freeze it for a 2nd time in it's raw state.

She said all this in an email & she explained it more technically than me. If I can find it, I'll copy it in a PM to you.

She said if you work quickly enough & don't actually thaw the meat out while you're working, you might be alright. Having made frozen beef heart before, I don't think I'd be able to work quickly enough to make it, mince it all twice & pack it for freezing, without the prawns thawing completely.

Maybe it might be best just to use the cooked red prawns if you can't get fresh green prawns.

[DIY]

I'm curious about this also.. I use frozen prawns in my mix, I then re-freeze and feed to my discus. I've been doing this for a few years now :shock:

In fact I have defrosted my b/h mix, added medication and refrozen (Which would make the prawns - frozen, de-frosted, mixed with other ingredients, re-frozen, de-frosted again, mixed with medication, re-frozen again and then fed to the discus...)

I think it helps that the amount of time it is defrosted is actually pretty small and it remains fairly cold or at least cool so bacteria hasn't had much time to grow....:ug

The other thing I have read is prawns are often frozen initially on the boat or in the factory etc.. so "fresh" prawns aren't necessarily what you would expect when you think fresh. I asked at my local coles where the prawns that weren't frozen came from and if they had previously been frozen.. the answer was a very clear yes, and they showed me the 500gm packs for sale in the frozen foods section which they just open up and put in the deli section for an additional 2$ a kilo.. :banghead I'm glad I asked and didn't buy assuming they were "fresh"

[TW]

DIY, my sister went on to say the same as you. That if not fully defrosted & kept very cold, that bacteria hasn't had much time to grow. But I know how long it took me to double mince & pack this for freezing when I made it. I know I would end up re-freezing fully thawed meat. I agree that green prawns often seem partially thawed & suspect they have been frozen. I think the thing is, it is expected that we won't re-freeze them raw. Normally, we would only refreeze green prawns, after we have cooked them.

As a qualifier, my sister said that there are other factors - such as the hygiene practices in the store of purchase. With poor in store hygiene, meat that has never been frozen could end up with more bad bacteria than raw frozen meat that was well handled in store & at your home, then thawed & refrozen quickly whilst still very cold.

I will look for her email & see what else she said.

[DIY]

This might be a really, really stupid question... but do discus get food poisoning? I'm just wondering if they are actually better at handling less than fresh food than say we are?

[TW]

Good Question. I don't know.

[waitaki]

I bet they get gastro!!

[TW]

This is how the email conversation with my sister went. She is fairly qualified in her profession to be able to give me advice on safe food preparations for humans. She knows NOTHING about fishkeeping nor what is good or bad for fish.

I still have been too nervous to use frozen beef heart, and hope that no-one thinks I'm saying you should. I might try it in the future, if I can't get hold of fresh, unfrozen. This info is just to throw in the mix and everyone needs to decide what they feel comfortable doing for their fish.

Q: My butcher said that the recommendation for the general public was not to thaw raw meat & re-freeze, but said butchers were an exception to the rule, as meat frozen by the butcher & then a single thawing & refreezing by the customer was acceptable.

A: The general rule is that you can freeze things twice, once raw and once cooked.

So if you are going to thaw meat, cook it and refreeze it, especially if it was well cooked and cooled quickly, then frozen promptly after cooking it would be fine.

You will also find that if something is thawed, but still very cold i.e. just thawed enough to separate, and quickly refrozen it would be ok.

It would not usually be suggested to the general public, because different people would have a different interpretation of time and temperature and methods of handling, so, with so many grey areas, you would not generally use that as a recommendation.

The reason why the Butcher would be suggesting it was OK from a butcher is that he would be telling you that it would have been frozen much closer to slaughter, presumably, and should have got to frozen temperature more quickly - as Butcher's should have facilities to reduce the temperature more quickly.

If this all makes sense, it means that yes, it would be ok to use. The other thing is that heart may not be a commonly purchased item, so the safest way for the butcher to be able to have it on hand, is more than likely frozen.

Q: My beef heart will be thawed (raw), prepared (raw) & re-frozen (raw). Does it still being raw for the 2nd freeze change things? Does this make it no longer safe?

A : I guess factors such as how long it is thawing, how warm it gets while you mince it, how it is handled, how quickly it is refrozen. All food has some bacteria and humans are able to handle a certain amount depending on their general immunity, age, etc so it is hard to say it would be either fine or no good. I guess if you could get heart which has not been frozen it would be better but then it depends on how fresh it is and how it has been handled. Any raw food will be likely to have a higher bacteria count than cooked, the cooking temp destroys most of the bacteria. Sorry I cannot give a more definite answer.

[pink66]

Thanks Robyn, it seems that it is going to remain one of those things where we just have to do it the best we can to ensure minimal handling and sitting around unthawed on the bench..

Thanks for the details.. They are very helpful :wink:

[pink66]

Well my first batch is done.. After reading every post I could about what gets put into the mix I went with, beef heart, scallops and bf tuna (from the freezer - it's good to be a member of a fishing club), fresh salmon (looked almost tooo good to add in), carrots (i grated before steaming), peas, spinach, garlic and banana (nice touch banana, all mixed together it may look less than inviting but the smell was quite OK). then the additives, nutrarose, pro growth and pro more, spirulina, lots of discs, flake and pellets crushed up and as a finishing tough some of Mal's black worms..

It is now all bagged up and flat as a tack in the freezer.. But I could not resist, some of the fresh batch just happened to make it into the african tank - No complaints there - little fish piggies :) and as for Finn and her clean up crew, well she was scared of it... yes I know how that sounds, big tough discus scared of something she should be eating :? But the others showed her the way and the Corries and Butterflies started to tackle it and she could not be left out..

So I believe that at this point I can say - It is all a great big hit with all my little fishy friends. thanks to everyone who has posted details of what and how.. it took alot of the trial and error out of it
:wave1

[TW]

Had 3 goes at making beef heart now & my best attempt was the 1st. that was the only batch that didn't sent little particles throughout the water column. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[jimmyg]

I am after NaturRose (astaxanthin) and Pro More, but were do you get it. I asked my local Healthfood store and they don't have it.

[TW]

I'm pretty sure you can get both from our sponsor ASA

[Boyam]

well i tried to make this. it took two hours so im afraid to feed it to my fish since it was out so long. my meet grinder sucked real bad kept getting clogged with the hearts stringy bits(the real tough white vein looking things). and to top it off now im also afraid that my fish wont be able to eat it properly now because it did not grind these stringy bits.

sigh...what to do :cry:

[ILLUSN]

Next time mate trim the heart before you mince it, that means get a REALLY sharp knife and trim off ott hte stingy bits before you try and mince it, last time it took me 1 and 1/2 hours to trim up 4 hearts and then only bout 15 min to run everything through the mincer twice.

[Boyam]

i did trim everything visible. but the really tiny ones got me. the ones you ca not trim off. i really feel it was my meet grinder. it sucked. it even clogged up on shrimp and tuna part.

I suppose i will try it, i jsut hope it doesnt make them sick since it was out for some time.

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

is it ok to feed you fish this mix, frozen blood worms and brine shrimp?

Also i work 9-5 so not alot f time to feed them a few times a day, i feed once in the morning before i leave, once when i get home and once before bed. (7.30AM, 6pm and 10-12pm) is this ok?

[simmo2302]

just made up a half batch, as close as i could to this with what is available in the small town. (made up about 2Kg)

the discus fry and going ballistic over it !!

i put in 2 small cubes (about 1/2 inch L x 1/2 inch W x 1/4 inch Thk )

it took them a while to adapt to it cos they r used to bloodworms,

but i m sitting here now watching a big wriggling ball of fry a they all competing to get a piece.

[Ghoti]

Met mincer has arrived from the great online auction house.
Went shopping tonight.

1 kg boned & skinned salmon - $35
1 kg Hake fillet - $15
4 garlic bulbs - $3.98
100g Wards Gelatine powder - $3.77

Happy fish. . .priceless :lol:

Still to buy Spirulina, Flake and Beef Hearts. Have a few kilo of prawns in freezer from our March catch so I know they are local and been freshly frozen. Is there really a benefit in cooking half of them????

Just hope the fish appreciate it!

Cheers,
Scott

[lpiasente]

I don't cook mine. Have fun it is a sticky mess but well worth it.

[swampy1972]

I don't cook mine. Have fun it is a sticky mess but well worth it.

Me either. I found the bet way to do it is to grind up all the dry ingredients first then do all the wet ingredients in small lots. It's the only way I could control the mess.

If you have one of those big stainless steel mixing bowls they're perfect for combining it all together prior to packing/freezing.

Question: how long do you all consider this to ok in the freezer? I'm concerned I've made too much and it will spoil by the time I get through it. Any thoughts?

[Ghoti]

I found the bet way to do it is to grind up all the dry ingredients first then do all the wet ingredients in small lots. It's the only way I could control the mess.

Question: how long do you all consider this to ok in the freezer? I'm concerned I've made too much and it will spoil by the time I get through it. Any thoughts?

Good tip there Swampy!

I'm hoping it will be good for 6 months at least. As I buy the ingredients I realise its gunna make up a fes w kilo of mix. Next time I'm in the stupidmarket I intend checking out the best before dates on the frozen fish fillets. The prawns I have in the freezer are already 3 months old. . .

Oh, and I picked up 100g of Spirulina, $18.95. Flakes and beefhearts to come.

Can anyone guess what I have planned for Saturday night?

Cheers,
Scott

[swampy1972]

A romantic beefheart and prawn dinner? :D

[Ghoti]

A romantic beefheart and prawn dinner? :D

Yep, with 11 guests - 6 adults and 5 kids.

Also checked out the frozen fish at the supermarket. Closest "best before" date was 11 March 2011, with one I&J box with a best before date 20 September 2012. So, I guess the mix can be kept for quite some time.

[Ghoti]

the discus fry and going ballistic over it !!

i put in 2 small cubes (about 1/2 inch L x 1/2 inch W x 1/4 inch Thk )

it took them a while to adapt to it cos they r used to bloodworms,

but i m sitting here now watching a big wriggling ball of fry a they all competing to get a piece.

Well, so far mine seem completely disinterested. Still savage the bloodworm, but when I swap to the mix they just swim off. Might simply be a case of time to adapt as Simmo points out.

Tomorrow will start mix only and see if I get a better reception.

Humph!! Dunno who these fish think they are - the kids dont seem to mind my cooking!!

Cheers,
Scott

[BigDaddyAdo]

Starve them for a day first. They will eat it eventually. Dont offer any other foods. They will not let themselves starve.

[swampy1972]

Agreed...

That's how mine learnt and they've never looked back.

[Ghoti]

Still turning their noses up at it. Only the goldfish seem interested.

I'm leaving some in overnight to see if it makes a difference.

My missus reckons its too much garlic - that the 1/2 cup crushed garlic is possibly processed (i.e. from a tube) and not crushed from cloves as I did. It certainly stinks, I know that!

We'll see what the morning brings.

[goodoo]

I used to be a chef. And from memory sea food can be frozen for 3 to 6 months. beef alot longer and chicken about 9 months. all the above can be kept for alot longer it will just get freezer burn. Thats ok it basically turns to ice real slowly and wont hurt your fish. you can tell when it looks icy around the edges thats freezer burn.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Ghoti. Just read this post. The garlic I use is fresh, not the tube stuff. Remember, that half cup of crushed garlic is added to 6 kilos of meat and fish mince plus vegetables plus dry fish food, so it shouldn't be too strong.

Are your fish eating it well now?

[Ghoti]

They are now thanks Merrilyn!

It took a couple of attempts of not feeding for two days, offering beefheart on the third and fourth day then feeding flake on day 5.

I still wonder if the neighbours can smell the garlic each time I feed the fish though :shock: :lol:

Cheers,
Scott

EDIT - I should have asked how much to deed them. Currently I am feeding 6 adults 2 x squares (roughly the size of commercial bloodworm squares but 50% thicker) twice daily, and 4 6-8 cm jueveniles 1 square twice daily. Both tankls also get flake and pellet supplements for the other fish.

[Merrilyn]

Good to hear :D

Sounds like you're feeding them enough. Juvies should eat more than adults, not so much that there is food left between meals but just just enough so they are eager for their next meal.

Discus do tend to 'graze' more than other fish, so don't expect them to clean it all up within 5 minutes. I give mine at least 30 minutes before I'll
syphon off the uneaten food.

[Ghoti]

Thanks Merrilyn 8-)

[syxx]

this is still a good recipe, i used it ages ago and when i get my wilds back i'll make a batch of this up again.