Another Headstander...

[Benny]

Hey guys, i got a BD whos also been headstanding of late, not AS interested in food, still picks @ it tho when i put it in the tank...

It can swim horizontally, just floats stragely. between 45 degrees and 90..

find enclosed a pic,
what would u guys reccomend as a process of medicating it?

[DR.V]

this is my first time seeing a discus acting like that other than picking food ... hmmm

[DR.V]

I found this :
http://discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3558

U guys have similar problem. Good luck

[Benny]

Mine hasnt got any white lumps though, which leads me to think the lil fella has overeaten, tho its been headstandin for probably 3-4 days.....

[Merrilyn]

Hi Benny. Headstanding is usually caused by swim bladder disorder. Now, this can be bacterial, or it can be caused by a build up of gas in the intestine due to over eating or food fermenting in the gut.

Try the simple treatments first, like epsom salts to help remove any blockage from the gut. It acts like a laxative and should help move things along. If that has no effect, then you may need to treat with an antibiotic like metro. We've had a few of these lately. Might need to do some more reading to see if there is new research on it.

Keep us posted Benny.

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Benny,
Head down or head standing may be caused by damage to the semicircular canals in the inner ear that helps it to pitch, roll and yaw. With initial and minor damage, it may recover but if infection becomes chronic where the damage is permanent, it is irreversible.

In my opinion, it is not swim bladder problem as the discus can still maintain buoyancy.

If it is swim bladder problem, it will not be able to maintain buoyancy and generally will try to swim about but once it stop swimming, it will float up.

Just my view,
Andrew :angel

[Benny]

thats an interesting theorey...

but it has no problems balancing itself either..!

It seems perfectly fine, just when stationary, it goes head first ,,,

Will try epsom salts tomorrow, one tablespoon per 40L...

How often should i WC? what %?
Temp? 30?

feeding?

Regards.. benny

[DR.V]

what is this epsom salt ?
I got some salt for medicating from LFS , is this the same salt ? Im pretty sure its a different salt for salt water

[Benny]

epsom salts are a magnesium ion based salt, with laxative properties ;)

[Merrilyn]

Hi Benny, just leave the epsom salts in the tank for three days, and then go back to your normal water changing routine. Temperature and feeding as per normal.

I'm still doing some research on this to see if there any new theories on headstanding. If I come up with something, I'll let you know.

Andrew, thanks for that information. Is there a treatment you can recommend?

[Fishpimpin73]

If it is a "blockage" in " the guts" shelled peas work as a laxative also :wink:

[Andrew Soh]

Hi,
Epsom salt is technical known as Magnesium Sulphate we call here 'Eno'. It is supposed to help in peristalsis.

That's right Benny. It should be able to swim about when it wants to as sense of direction and swimming ability is not imparted. Only thing is that the canal controlling pitch (up and down) is affected. If the swim bladder is deflated (damaged, the discus will float.

Ladyred, as have mentioned, it can be treated in the initial stage through feeding..(not soaking in water)....antibiotics in the feed-mix. Once it is in the blood stream, it works more effectively. Through water absorption is slower and some antibiotics don't work or be absorbed this way and may be difficult to reach inner ear. As to the antibiotic to be used...check with your friendly neighbourhood Vet.!!! :ug

If it is a chronic condition...very difficult.

regars,
Andrew :angel

[Benny]

ummm if the swim bladder was deflated, wouldnt the fish then sink rather then float?

5 hours on from the epsom salt treatment, no clamped fins, however stiill headstanding, but at a lesser angle, definately not the 90 degrees it was doing this morning...

It ate a bit, but seeing as i had just put him into the new tank i wouldnt have expected much...

Question about airation... If i have the outlet from my sponge filter above water level, do i need to run an airstone?

ill probably stick one in soon for the sake of doing it so the poor fella doesnt suffocate....

[Merrilyn]

Yes Benny, I would drop another airstone in there just to be on the safe side. I like lots of oxygen in any treatment tank.

[Benny]

still headstanding this morning 14 hours into treatment... will see how he is after a breakfast feed....

Well i fed him, and no real interest in the food.... bloodworms just sitting on the bottom of the tank... :cry: :cry: :cry:

How long do i continue with epsom salts...? what is the next treatment? Metro? Trisulfa?

1/2 the problem is that hes lookin @ his own reflection on the bottom of the tank i think...

But i havent seen any poo's on the tank since 7pm last night whjich really isnt much of a promising sign, fins are still clamped and all.....

LR plz help!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Benny]

Do i try a double strength of the epsom salts perhaps, or 150% dosage?..

No poos, leads me to think hes constipated........

i slightly under doesed the epsom salts, (1 &2/3 Table spoons of the stuff for 75 liters or so...)..

What is the safe way to go about adding more, if that is reccomended?

I also noticed a white dot on or near its anus...

what could it be?

[Benny]

Pic of white lump

[Merrilyn]

Benny, I'm afraid it's not looking good. That appears to be some kind of growth. You can try a treatment of Metro, and it might help.

Fingers crossed for you Benny.

[Dave76]

Hi Benny

Does the dot look raised at all, like a pimple? Have a look at my discus - http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3558

been headstanding for a while now with white dot like things all over her sides.

I haven't been able to find a treatment that works - please let me know if find one that does.

Dave

[Benny]

looks exactly like a pimple sadly....

Treating with metro atm we will see how things goes, not expecting miracles though

[Dave76]

I wish you luck Benny :)

Dave

[Benny]

thanks mate, same to you!!!!

I appreciate the well wishes,
Regards
Benny

[Benny]

he lost the battle unfortunately :(

[Dave76]

Sorry to hear it mate :(