My headstanding discus

[Dave76]

Hi all

My headstanding discus - see http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2987&start=32

is still headstanding - now at a full on 90 degrees most of the time - as soon as you approach the tank tho she swims up to you. Sometimes she is swimming around the tank fine tho.

She still has the white lumps on her body as well - some days only a few, some days a lot - I still don't know what they are.

Here is a schedule of treatments to date.

Tetracycline - 5 day treatment
Prazi - 2 day treatment - found tapeworms
Tri sulfa - 5 day treatment
Prazi - 2 day treatment - nothing found
Parasol - treat, wait 3 days retreat
Metro - 7 day treatment
Prazi - 2 day treatment - nothing found
Levimisole - 1 day treatment

Between most treatments there was a 2-5 day rest period with salt. WC have been generally daily - 30-80% depending on treatment requirements.

Appetite is fine - she is back eating flake & pellet food - I've now outlawed blackworms from the house as these have been put down as a possible cause of all the problems I was having.

I don't want to have to put her to sleep as she had finally figured out how to be a good mother and not eat fry before the headstanding started.

I'll try and get some updated photos tonight to post, but does anyone have any thoughts on what else I can try ?

Thanks all

Dave

[Dave76]

Here is a pic - sorry for the quality but she wasn't in a very photogenic mood.....

[kalebjarrod]

i would have no idea

she dosen't look too good though

[Merrilyn]

Dave, I am just about out of ideas with this. The one thing left to try is Permanganate of Potash to remove the lumps on the skin. There is a link here written in reply to a fish BillT had with white spots on it. It may help.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3479

[Andrew Soh]

Hi Dave,

For one reason or another, too much dosing with drugs and chemicals for a long period can damage the inner ear's semicircular canals that control pitch, yaw and row. Headstanding is not caused by swim bladder problem because SB controls buoyancy only.

Damage to the canals can be caused by:
1) infect of bacteria or bacterium there...
2) infestion by protozoan there............
3) high dose of chemicals over a long period...............
4) high dose of antibiotics over a long period..............
5) too much cocktail of drugs and chemicals...............

So, what you should do now is to make as much water change as possible. As suggested, do PP treatment @2mg/ litre of water for 4 times @ interval of 3 to 4 days. Make sure the pH is below 8 during treatment.

Maintain pH at 5.5 if possible all the while
Add salt for prevention of dehydration from injury and wound (100gm /100litre water)
If you wish, add acriflavine as apreventive measure (buy those in the aquarium shop and follow the recommendation)
Maintain temperature at 28c....not 30c

Keep us up-dated, ya?

Andrew :angel

[Benny]

I dont necessarily agree with that andrew..

A fish i had, which headstood exactly like dave's, was because of a growth from its anus. This blocked the tiny tubes that help inflate and deflate the fish's swim bladder, and as such he headstood too..

I think that it oculd possibly be associated to the swim bladder of the fish...

Just my opinion,
Benny

[spencer]

Hello Andrew Soh
When are we in Australia going to get a chance to purchase your new book?

cheers Max

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Spencer,

Maybe from Ben Moore (advisor).....check it out with him about my book.

Hi Benny, your belief is a long held opinion. In many discus books in the past, blame for any type of head standing was on the swim bladder. It is something like.......when a person fell down and had stroke, people tend to say that the fall caused him the stroke. I am not a doctor...but I believe is that he had a stroke and the blood supply was temporary terminated. ...causing him to fall.. It is a split second thing....

Benny, the earlier post was directed at why the semicircular canals can be damaged. Do you agree that all animals whether on land or aquatic have semicircular canals in their inner ears?

You are right to say that head standing could be due to other reasons. Bloated stomach with water retention in the abdomen cavity where/ with the liver infected or damaged and the bloating presses against the swim bladder forcing the SB to reduce in size is making the top heavy...thus resulting in a headstand....(but usually only at an angle, not a full vertical)

Regards,
Andrew :angel

[Benny]

a stroke is a blood clot in the brain from what i do know, so i agree with you there.

Im no expert on animal anatomy so im not going to profess on anything, but i was just saying that my fish's anus was blocked by a growth, causing a full 90 degree headstand, and it was nothing to do with its semicircular canals

[Littlefish]

Just to confuse the issue further, if Benny's fish had a blocked anus, could this have caused gas to build up in the rectum, thus making that end of the fish float upward?

I ask this because my catfish, Dewey, f@rts explosively on a regular basis (my sons think it is hilarious, my wife is not amused) so I would hate to imagine him with a blockage at that end.

Fred :)

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Fred,

I was taking my food while browsing your post...suddenly I wanted to throw out...sh-t :( ....talking about anus... :roll:

O.K. ....I have stopped eating....about the growth on the anus....anything is possible.

Benny and Fred, in my opinion, so long as there is not obvious bloating or growth on tail or lower part of the discus, Headstanding generally is due to damage to the semicircular canals and not due to swim bladder...... :wink:

Take care mates,
Andrew :angel

[Littlefish]

Cheers, Andrew.

Sorry I spoiled your meal! :lol:

Fred

[kalebjarrod]

so whats the treatment Andrew?

[curly69]

I have same thing happening to one of my fish, but with no out ward signs what is the treatment?????someone please help.