let tank age naturally before buffering?

[sammigold]

Went to LFS today to buy shellgrit to raise kh. Was advised to let tank age naturally for a while so that the ph drops a little before adding shellgrit as ph is at between 7 and 7.2. Otherwise he said the shellgrit will cause the ph to raise too much and will stress the fish. Is this ok? Our ph is pretty constant. Our other tanks haven't experienced any major drops. We have grit in our "old" tank and the ph and kh have remained constant. At the moment our new tank has a kh of about 1. Everybody is happy and even plants are showing new shoots. The tank has had fish and plants in it for about 6 weeks. No nitrites. LFS said water perfect. Still no discus yet. Maybe this week or next. anyway the question is "is my LFS right should I wait before putting in shellgrit?"

[duck]

You have a PH of around 7.3 and a kh of 1.

[Benny]

why would you want to raise the hardness of your water out of curiousity?

Discus naturally prefer a softer acidic water?

Regards
benny

[sammigold]

Duck Hi. our ph is between 7 and 7.2 It is not 7.3 On checking the water this morning the kh is virtually zero.

Benny Hi. We want to raise the KH a little to prevent sudden drops in PH. We aren't trying to raise the GH. That is fine. Very soft in fact.

The thing is in our other tanks we have got a kh of about 3 and our Ph sits stable at just over neutral (7-7.2) but they have been around for years so we haven't had to worry about low kh for a very long time. Now that we are trying to set up for discus we want to make sure all is right before we put them in. Don't want to suffer huge fluctuations in ph after we have the little buggers. Want to prevent problems before we have to find solutions. Does that make sense? :lol:

[Sam]

kh is the buffering capacity for ph. u should had a kh of 3 to 4 dergrees for discus.
benny: if ur kh is low ur ph will not be stable and drop.

[Benny]

u could have told me that over msn sem sem :P

how kh works as the buffering capacity for pH does not make sense to me from a scientific perspective though... Coz kH is calcium hardness right? and how does calcium ions have any relation to hydroxide or hydronium ions in water? unless there is some equilibrium between calcium, calcium hydroxide and CaH present in which case Kh would make sense that it acts as a buffer

bah
this fish keeping has be baffled at times

[sammigold]

So..... do I wait or do I buffer now and risk raising ph?

[Merrilyn]

Do it now Sammi. The pH naturally drops within 48 hours of being drawn from the tap. With no buffering capacity in our water at the moment, once you add fish, there is a very real danger of a pH crash. It can drop two full points in around 24 hours, which is a lot more stressful to your fish than a slightly elevated, but stable pH.


Benny, try this link for a a bit more information on water chemistry.

http://user.aol.com/andrerich/aquarium/Page6.html#guide2

[Sam]

mate kh is karbonate hardness.

[Dee]

kh is carbonate hardenss.

Sammi, I agree with Merrilyn ... get the kh and ph where you want them for a week or so prior to adding fish. Once the fish are in the tank for a while with feeding and waste etc, depending on stocking levels, the ph will drop with unbuffered Melbourne water (with my Melbourne water it does anyway). I can't remember the site i got this info from :roll: but there was a info table that listed kh values and their respective ph values. From memory it went something like this ---

kh 1-2deg = ph 6.4 - 6.6
kh 3-4deg = 6.7 - 7.0
Kh 5 and up = 7.1 and up

although don't hold me to this info, as my memory aint what it us to be. :P

HTH

Cheers,

Dee :)

[Proteus]

Dee, that is pretty much spot on

KH is one of the most important factors towards water stability.

[Dee]

Hi Proteus,

Yeah I found out the importance of kh the hard way :x but have since got some great books on water chemistry and slowly getting my head around the basics.

Melbourne water is pretty much ideal for breeding Discus ... soft and acidic once aged. For raising juvi's and general Discus keeping I highly recomend raising kh to stablise ph, it's working for me.

Cheers,

Dee :)

[sammigold]

Thanks guys... DiscusD you are right. Our other tank has a kh of 3 and a ph of around 6.8-7.
Went out today, bought some shellgrit and put a big handful in.
We have had cardinals, rummynose and blackwidows in the tank for about 4-5weeks now and ph hadn't seemed to come down but don't want to take a chance as planning on have Discus very soon!!! Dying of impatience :roll: :blob
anyway we'll see how this goes. thanks for all the advice. much appreciated :D

[Dee]

Hi Sammi :)

One more thought ... the tetra' and blackwidow's would put a pretty low bioload on the biofilter. Once you add Discus, who eat lots and produce lots of waste you may get a slight ammonia reading as the bio filter catches up. Maybe add your discus slowly 2-3 at a time per 2-3 days till you have the total amount of discus you want in the tank. The added waste's and bioload will also lower ph, hence adding the shellgrit (kh) to buffer ph.

sorry to waffle on and on :oops: but these are problems I have faced in the past and thought the info may help :) . Oh one more thing :roll: patience with discus is very important, but they are well worth the wait when done right :wink: HTH

Cheers,

Dee :)

[sammigold]

Thanks Dee. I definitely plan on adding discus slowly. For your reasons and for financial. Also I want to be patient to make sure I get ones that I really want. Thanks for that advice. its not waffle it is sensible and much appreciated.

[endless]

how much shell grit do u need to put for a 5x2x2 tank??

[sammigold]

We put in a large handful in our 4ft tank and it raised the kh a little then we added a little more until we got the kh to in between 2 and 3. Just add a bit at a time leave it overnight and then see what the kh is. That worked for us. HTH